The Smuggling discussion thread

[askavir]

Exploit or not, what FD did by "fixing" this was remove the only real worthwhile new feature in 1.4 update from idiots like myself who do not like to play login bingo.

After a lot of months defending the game from all those "game is boring", "game is shallow", "game is a grind", "game is just about numbers" mobs, and after so much time trying to convince people that the game actually showed some promise and was going towards a brighter and more interesting, although a bit distant, future, and taking the time to share with other people ways I found to go by without having to suffer painful and boring grinding, I feel somewhat stabbed in the back, and mostly feel generally like an idiot now.

Its like FD is tuning the game to account for the login-bingo players making reasonable amounts of credits, "intercoursing" the regular players in the process.

Even the pre 1.4 smuggling missions, which were the way I mostly made some credits to finance more interesting although mostly revenue-less activities, are now mostly gone. We're back to the days where the bulletin board was only for new players in their eravate sidewinders.

I most definitely will not grind for a second. But I most definitively do not want to play login bingo either.

My game activity for the last week, was loading the game 2 times, staring a bit at the hangar, sigh, curse and exit.

Not cool, FD, not cool...

 

[Chaodiurn]

Hoho, Ziggy with a serious hat on, what a rare sight.

Exploit or not, stuff's gone and a game without stuff isn't up to stuff. I prefer overly paid missions that you can stack up over no missions that work as intended, i.e. being gone. Why are people so afraid of abuse in this game that features are not implemented (player to player trade) and content is temporarily cut (smuggler missions)?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

As always, FD fails to communicate properly. It mentions the missions will become more common, but no timeframe, no information about the fixes they're going to implement. 2 to 3 lines of post in a thread which proceeds rapidly so everyone misses it just doesn't cut it. They don't seem to realize this issue makes a lot of players upset, which is rather unbelievable if you see the backlash, and it's because of a mistake on their part. Keeping everyone in the dark grows more unrest, and that's the point where we are now.

It's about time Frontier weighed in on the issue with their solutions and their plan to implement them. And not in a drive-by post in a mega thread, but as a sticky for everyone to find.

Hoho, Ziggy with a serious hat on, what a rare sight.

Tempers flare, a discussion to be had. I cannot resist.

But you're right. I need to throw in more gags.

 

[JimSpitfire]

Exploit or not, what FD did by "fixing" this was remove the only real worthwhile new feature in 1.4 update from idiots like myself who do not like to play login bingo.


Its like FD is tuning the game to account for the login-bingo players making reasonable amounts of credits, "intercoursing" the regular players in the process.

It's exactly what they did and in turn smuggling is now back to pre 1.3 levels. Even the average credits you could make from 1.3 smuggling missions are as good as gone now. I don't know why they didn't just implement some sort of max distance for the missions to stop some of the stupidly high payouts, or even just tone down the payouts in general.. that would have discouraged the exploiters.

Some sort of time frame for when they will return would be nice. My game activity has been pretty much the same as yours lately, barely logged in. Gone from smuggling finally being fun and going in the right direction and now back to square one... pretty depressing.

 

[Noddie]

I don't know - I enjoy smuggling. It doesn't need to pay well, it's like Trading with extra drama!


It does strike me as logical that doing it in bigger ships is harder (albiet more profitable). If you are going to smuggle (or do most things, really) just bare in mind some things are dangerous, and don't do it in your best ship with all your credits in the cargo hold... Keep enough "float" that you can make it back if you have a bad experience.


The Diamondback scount runs cool, is fast, agile and has a reasonable space inside and is cheap enough that it's not a catastrophe when you loose it. It was made to smuggle.

 

[KellyR]

Whether something is technically an exploit is neither here nor there. Frontier Developments has the right to define what they consider exploits for their game. If they consider something an exploit, then it is an exploit for their game regardless of what anyone else thinks. If they deem something as not being an exploit for their game then it is not an exploit for their game no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks. It's their game, we don't get a vote (unless FD wants to give us one and I think that would be silly).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Whether something is technically an exploit is neither here nor there. Frontier Developments has the right to define what they consider exploits for their game. If they consider something an exploit, then it is an exploit for their game regardless of what anyone else thinks. If they deem something as not being an exploit for their game then it is not an exploit for their game no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks. It's their game, we don't get a vote (unless FD wants to give us one and I think that would be silly).

So whether the definition states it's an exploit is irrelevant, it's FD's quote on the matter that counts? And are we voting on definitions nowadays?

Ok, maybe you can explain to me how this makes sense:
Frontier Development has told us it's not an exploit, so lets go with that.
This means that the consequences of the 'feature' was intended. Otherwise it would be an exploit.
They also stated it was against the spirit of the game.
Because it was against the spirit of the game, they nerfed it.

So Frontier introduced a feature knowing that the impact would be against the spirit of the game and then withdrew that feature because it was against the spirit of the game.

 

[Noddie]

Well, there is "cheating", there is "gamesmanship" and there is "unsportmanlike behavior"


For me...


"Cheating" is things like router hacks. (these are true "exploits" in the literal sense of the word)


"Gamesmanship" is stuff like combat logging.


"unsportmanlike behavior" is stuff like "ganking".

 

[Khazid]

It still makes descent credits. Apart from Sothis there are other stations that will spawn 4-8 mil missions here and there, not too bad for a 300-400ly run. If you do not play for 4 hours straight, where trading is more profitable (and boring), you can just start a smuggle mission for a quick 4mil. The occasional interdiction when piloting an extra light, minimal weapons Asp keeps you on edge.

What annoys me more is how all missions in the bubble seem to have been a lot less profitable. I used to see the occasional one mil "kill 12 civilians" kind but now they re gone. Is it just luck?

 

[KellyR]

So whether the definition states it's an exploit is irrelevant, it's FD's quote on the matter that counts? And are we voting on definitions nowadays?

Ok, maybe you can explain to me how this makes sense:
Frontier Development has told us it's not an exploit, so lets go with that.
This means that the consequences of the 'feature' was intended. Otherwise it would be an exploit.
They also stated it was against the spirit of the game.
Because it was against the spirit of the game, they nerfed it.

So Frontier introduced a feature knowing that the impact would be against the spirit of the game and then withdrew that feature because it was against the spirit of the game.

If I go to your house and you say people can spit on the floor. What right do I have to tell someone else there that they can't. It's your house. You can make the rules you want there regardless of what I think. I don't get a say in the matter. Well, this is FD's house. They can make whatever rules they deem appropriate. If we don't like those rules, we have a choice: live with them or go elsewhere.

Now as for intended behavior and the spirit of the game. I don't think this was intended behavior, but they looked at it and for whatever reason, they decided they wouldn't consider it an exploit. Why? I have no idea, but since this is their game, hosted on servers that they pay for, they have the right to decide what can and can not be done while playing their game connected to those servers.

It's basic civility. Obey the rules of others while in their house. You would expect them to obey your rules in your house.

 

[signal11th]

As always, FD fails to communicate properly. It mentions the missions will become more common, but no timeframe, no information about the fixes they're going to implement. 2 to 3 lines of post in a thread which proceeds rapidly so everyone misses it just doesn't cut it. They don't seem to realize this issue makes a lot of players upset, which is rather unbelievable if you see the backlash, and it's because of a mistake on their part. Keeping everyone in the dark grows more unrest, and that's the point where we are now.

It's about time Frontier weighed in on the issue with their solutions and their plan to implement them. And not in a drive-by post in a mega thread, but as a sticky for everyone to find.

Tempers flare, a discussion to be had. I cannot resist.

But you're right. I need to throw in more gags.

I'm still waiting for some kind of map notepad so I can actually make a note of things in the in game map something I think that has been asked for since day one so I won't hold my breath about the change to smuggling missions.
I find it faintly ridiculous the year 3000 plus you can't add a note to a location on a map, what makes it even worse is it is something I can already do now in the year 2015.

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

So whether the definition states it's an exploit is irrelevant, it's FD's quote on the matter that counts? And are we voting on definitions nowadays?

Ok, maybe you can explain to me how this makes sense:
Frontier Development has told us it's not an exploit, so lets go with that.
This means that the consequences of the 'feature' was intended. Otherwise it would be an exploit.
They also stated it was against the spirit of the game.
Because it was against the spirit of the game, they nerfed it.

So Frontier introduced a feature knowing that the impact would be against the spirit of the game and then withdrew that feature because it was against the spirit of the game.

The thing is that each individual component of gaming the BB was working as intended.

Mode-switching? Yup, you can do that.
Mode-switching involves logging in to a different server each time? Yup, that's how it works.
Different server each time means a new BB mission set? Yup, that's what happens when you log to a new server.
Infinite access to missions of choice by jumping through servers? Oops.

You can argue that they should have known players would do it, that's exactly what players have been doing (and posting about on here for months: charity missions at Tun for naval ranking etc) but it remains a relatively obscure, fairly easily overlooked consequence of mode-switching.

 

[Tarman]

The thing is that each individual component of gaming the BB was working as intended.

Mode-switching? Yup, you can do that.
Mode-switching involves logging in to a different server each time? Yup, that's how it works.
Different server each time means a new BB mission set? Yup, that's what happens when you log to a new server.
Infinite access to missions of choice by jumping through servers? Oops.

You can argue that they should have known players would do it, that's exactly what players have been doing (and posting about on here for months: charity missions at Tun for naval ranking etc) but it remains a relatively obscure, fairly easily overlooked consequence of mode-switching.

It reminds me more of the time they prevented NPC fighters from gassing out by giving them a hundred thousand tons of fuel; said fuel service programmers forgetting that fuel has mass and thus turning the teeny ships into some seriously awesome piloted supertorpdeoes.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

Thanks!

So Frontier doesn't consider the exploit an exploit, but they do consider it against the spirit of the game.
But if it's not an exploit, they intended this consequence.
So I wonder why Frontier would knowingly put a feature in the game which is against the spirit of the game?

And that's why whether FD considers it an exploit or not is completely irrelevant. And with the context in mind their position doesn't make any sense at all.

The problem here is not that they knowingly put a feature in the game which is against the spirit of the game. The problem is that they introduce features that are not well thought out, haven't been tested properly and they don't really know the extent of said features. That's the problem.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The thing is that each individual component of gaming the BB was working as intended.

Mode-switching? Yup, you can do that.
Mode-switching involves logging in to a different server each time? Yup, that's how it works.
Different server each time means a new BB mission set? Yup, that's what happens when you log to a new server.
Infinite access to missions of choice by jumping through servers? Oops.

You can argue that they should have known players would do it, that's exactly what players have been doing (and posting about on here for months: charity missions at Tun for naval ranking etc) but it remains a relatively obscure, fairly easily overlooked consequence of mode-switching.

The problem here is not that they knowingly put a feature in the game which is against the spirit of the game. The problem is that they introduce features that are not well thought out, haven't been tested properly and they don't really know the extent of said features. That's the problem.

Both of you are spot on.

Mind that I'm arguing using the mindset: Frontier said they don't consider it an exploit, so it isn't one. Which would mean people who are arguing that don't consider the "Oops" there. They argue: "Infinite access to missions of choice by jumping through servers?Yup, that's how we envisioned that mechanism to work". Which is clearly bonkers. Which is why trying to cling to the sentiment it's not an exploit because Frontier said it wasn't, is as bonkers.

 

[Sin-rG]

Smuggling - Whats the political state that gives you these missions??

Hi,

So a few weeks ago I was getting smuggling missions like the mission below. Mostly round the 400k mark but this was the highest I saw within my grasp. These systems are quiet this week

I didn't bother to look at the system state to see what this system was going through. If anyone has a current system that pays well please take a look. I'm just trying to figure out how to find the decent systems. I'm assuming civil war or outbreak?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There's 2 schools of thought on the matter

- There was an exploit which meant missions were (temporarily) made rarer by FD
- People were having fun, so people complained, so FD made sure fun was made rare

Take your pick

 

[TD Bauer]

Yep, those 300-600k missions in the bubble were certainly nice to come across, and now they are not seen.

Like Ziggy said, there was a major exploit that was lots of fun and people were enjoying the smuggling experience and the millions of credits is was getting them. Smuggling got hit with a nerf all the way across the board, so now smuggling missions are rare to come across, and when you do find them in the bubble, they pay peanuts.

Bummer. I rather enjoyed smuggling in the bubble before 1.4 hit, as there were plenty of missions, an they paid me 100-300k, and I got to travel around and see some lots of systems. Not so much anymore. The exploit was rather interesting, and I admit I did three runs and had some fun. But the price being paid is that smuggling is a rare thing now and pays in belly-button lent.

 

[Kristov]

WHO gives smuggling missions, any government type will do that, as it's something all of them can use at one time or another for various reasons.

Where to get them NOW, different question and the answer is..anyone can, they are just rather rare now due to the exploitation of the players recently.

We have a rather noob playerbase in Elite when it comes to online games, they exploit anything and everything they possibly can in large numbers AND brag about it on the official forums, and then complain when those exploits get fixed. They might eventually figure it out...maybe...

 

[KellyR]

Both of you are spot on.

Mind that I'm arguing using the mindset: Frontier said they don't consider it an exploit, so it isn't one. Which would mean people who are arguing that don't consider the "Oops" there. They argue: "Infinite access to missions of choice by jumping through servers?Yup, that's how we envisioned that mechanism to work". Which is clearly bonkers. Which is why trying to cling to the sentiment it's not an exploit because Frontier said it wasn't, is as bonkers.

So they aren't allowed to decide what is and is not an exploit when playing their game that is hosted on their servers? That sounds bonkers to me.