The two were cut from the same cloth, but let's not pretend it was either of them in charge. Lots of vested interests looking for wartime profiteering. Carl Rove, Cheney, Lockheed Martin, Blackwater... There's a long list of parasites who put us in this mess and now they want to finish the job by having our western "leaders" sign off our collective representative governments with the TPP. It really is a mess we are in.
General / Off-Topic Tony Blair recognizes his responsibility in the development of Daech
- Thread starter Patrick_68000
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Full text of apology reads
"I'm sorry......I got caught,........Bush made me do it"
"I'm sorry......I got caught,........Bush made me do it"
Good analysis here. The problem is that often their decisions are based on lies.
The West consistently underestimates how violent that region is....I'll make no bones about it IMO Islam itself doesn't help. With Sunnis and Shiites battering the crud out of each other and fighting with horrific tactics. I'm secular and dismayed by it all. The West should have kept the middle east at arms length until it came out of the dark ages. Sadly we needed the damn oil......worst thing for this planet was all that oil there IMO. Without it we would have just left them all alone, which would have been the best thing for them too! Democracy and Islam do not mix well, modern freedoms we take for granted in the West and Islam do not mix well. Imposing any sort of Western values on Islamic countries is only going to end in tears. Maybe gentle nudges here and there, but anything than what we actually did!!
Personally I just don't think that region will ever be peaceful and I'm very fearful that it will spark a conflict that will make WW2 and WW1 look like tea parties. I dread the Day Iran gets nuclear weapons.....that will make October 1962 seem tame!!
FYI I'm a COLOSSAL pessimist (in case no-one guessed)
I somehow doubt that. I think the western powers knew and know exactly what they are doing. They simply don't care.
Islam is not violent. Muslims are not violent. This is their home and they see it as being invaded and are reacting in the same way as we did in WW2 and the Americans did after 9/11.
But all of this is entirely beside the point.
The issue is, Tony Blair lied to Parliament to win their consent to attack first Afghanistan then Iraq. Those lies cost British lives, not to mention the lives of ordinary decent people living there.
He participated in the engineering of post war responsibilities, ensuring that he and others like him would profit, contrary to British and International law.
The behaviour of troops is irrelevant, whatever their nationality. It is part of the military process that troops are geared up to do a job which no sane human should have to endure. Far from simply being abandoned, every one of the returning troops should be compensated for being asked to preform beyond what is reasonable or humane. That troops have been asked to do terrible things in the past is irrelevant. Comparisons with WW2 are nauseating and impertinent.
The issue is entirely the lies Blair used to take the country to war and the profits he has accrued as a result.
We also supported Assad during the mid 2000's, then turned on him when it suited us. Now we are cosying up to Iran (despite siding against them with Hussein and naming them on the axis of evil, and their past support for Al-qeada). We brought Gadaffi in from the cold after years of frosty relations following on from Lockerbie then turned on him again when it suited us.
And all this is against a backdrop of falling out (again) with the Russians who we should be working with to defeat ISIS.
Nobody trusts us because by this time next week we could have changed sides again, little wonder "coalitions of the willing" are becoming more difficult to form.
It would be interesting to see into a parallel universe where Blair didn't take the UK into Gulf War 2 and persuaded the US not to go either.
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Without such a monumental event, it's difficult to be sure what would have happened but it might be that in that world things are worse than now and Blair was right and picked the lesser of two evils.
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I'm betting not though.
Mr. Bush junior, put himself on a pedestal of righteousness and said to the western world: Either you are with us, or against us. Then claimed his intelligence services, had solid proof of WMDs. He needed Blair to back his cause and the CIA lies, gave Blair a good reason to do so. Can you disprove, manufactured intelligence; of course you can't. Will the UK trust US Republican intelligence again; we live in hope.
Was it wrong, of course it was. Was it avoidable? I don't think so. Have we learned anything from this? I doubt it very much.
Was it wrong, of course it was. Was it avoidable? I don't think so. Have we learned anything from this? I doubt it very much.
I'd like to apologize for that too. It is so easy to apologize for the mistakes and lies of others.
The Iraqis are clearly better off now, including that crying mother I remember form a picture, holding her shredded baby in her arms, after an American strike..
It is such a great thing that all the innocent victims, the so called collateral damage, have no voice.
Isn't war a wonderful thing?
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If Britain had not gone, the US would probably have gone anyway, backed by who-ever was hoping for a pat on the head approval afterward.
That isn't the issue.
Who dealt this mess, anyway? Yeah, it's an old card player's term,
But sometimes you can use the old switcheroo and it can be applied to... frontal politics,
What I mean is... who was it that set up a system, supposedly democratic system,
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
I mean, was George Washington the lesser of two evils? Sometimes I wonder?
You got some guy that says "For God's sake, we've got to stop having violence in this country."
While he's spending 16,000 dollars a second... snuffing gooks!
And other countries like the France have said, it does not work like that
Quite.
Most countries did.
England is desperate to prove that it is America's best friend, rather like an insecure dog. It's kinda strange that the English ruling classes still haven't quite figured out what was meant by a 'Special' relationship.
Australia is desperate to show everyone it exists and really does have a culture.
Yeah, turns out Blair is extremely religious. Apparently, during his time as PM, whenever he was away from number 10 over a sunday, his aides had to find a local Church for him to go to. Ali Campbell and all his spin doctors were paranoid about Blair's "god thing" getting out so kept a lid on it. The thinking was that the UK electorate considers anyone overtly religious as "a bit weird". Which frankly, is as it should be. Blair shows what can happen if we let our leaders be led by god, it lets them do what they want and blame their invisible friend.
I remember at that time, the international press said that United Kingdom was the doggie of the America
Very sad really; because, I feel, he was only doing what he thought, was right. As misguided as it was.
http://www.bartcop.com/poodle-chimp-sm.jpg
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He lied to parliament.
He caused the predictable deaths of British and overseas citizens.
He caused the predictable destruction of many ancient cities.
I'm sorry, I'm sure you have a point, but if he is still making that claim then he is even more nauseating than we thought.
These are the dramatic consequences of irresponsible decisions. The politicians should be accountable for their actions and punished to the height of their incompetence