Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Jockey79]

Logically it follows with the aforementioned 'definition' of MMO. Merely pointing out the ridiculousness of it.

Oh I do agree and have stated several times - Elite: Dangerous should never of had the MMO tag to start with.

As for ratings, I have never seen a game push a rating for online interaction. Seems they always skirt that one since no one can control it. Would be silly to try.

Games tend to include Solo / Single experiences to get the rating lowered - so open the game up to more potential buyers.
If the game was online only, you'd never get the 7 rating - as you say, you cannot control who you meet (or what they will say).

So in order to get a PEGI 7 the game needs a way a 7 year old can play, without meeting us crazy lot and warping their little minds

As to getting in and seeing 32 people max, again, that means nothing when it cant happen realistically. I don't really see the fun to be had in gaming the system just to fly effectively with my friends.

Again, I am but one man, sharing my opinion. I am not here to say for a certainty what the best course of action is, just what I see as some sub-optimal choices.

Fair enough buddy. Please don't be offended by any responses you may get - some of us have been pointing out the obvious and copy /pasting basic, well known and easily available information for a long time - so we can get a little tetchy at times about having to repeat ourselves to people who couldn't take just a few minutes to read up on ED before buying it, but we mean no harm.

 

[Jockey79]

oh I forgot about couch multiplayer, and I googled it and there is a single player mode. However my main point remains, is there a link you can provide me?

Thanks for proving one of my recent points - people should use Google before looking silly/ lazy.

"couch multiplayer" and "single player mode" are a long way off from "online only".

and why you didn't look up PEGI while you had Google open is beyond me, I posted it all not so long back

Here you go

 

[Crazyeyes24]

Nor am I suggesting we remove the Solo Play element, that would be just as silly as removing Open. I do however, firmly believe that there should be a mechanical separation between the two as far as the results of player actions are concerned. Again, gotta keep things fair and fun.

Edit:

Oh I do agree and have stated several times - Elite: Dangerous should never of had the MMO tag to start with.

Oh and this is the crux of the matter, it did/does. Hence our discussion here in the first place. Personally, I would like it to be an MMO. Glad we can agree that the game doesn't fit that bill.

 

[Tarman]

Nor am I suggesting we remove the Solo Play element, that would be just as silly as removing Open. I do however, firmly believe that there should be a mechanical separation between the two as far as the results of player actions are concerned. Again, gotta keep things fair and fun.

No, actually you don't. The game isn't a direct competition between players themselves unless they sign up for such.

 

[Astroniomix]

No, actually you don't. The game isn't a direct competition between players themselves unless they sign up for such.

Are you sure, because a number of people get really upset really quickly about people "progressing" too fast.

 

[Jockey79]

Nor am I suggesting we remove the Solo Play element, that would be just as silly as removing Open. I do however, firmly believe that there should be a mechanical separation between the two as far as the results of player actions are concerned. Again, gotta keep things fair and fun.

The thing is, Solo players are not the ones in here complaining their mode is broken.
Yet they have people they never see having an impact on their game.

I play in a private group, the system I work out of just changed hands, which has completely messed up what I was doing.
I'm not screaming blue murder or demanding changes, the Solo crowd are not either. We understand it is how the game works and how it was designed.

So as Open is so "clearly" broken right now - as people from open keep saying. Then remove it. One quick and easy fix right there.

 

[Faded Glory]

Are you sure, because a number of people get really upset really quickly about people "progressing" too fast.

Which is really rather futile, as the game isn't a competition, and nobody will ever win it...

 

[Crazyeyes24]

The thing is, Solo players are not the ones in here complaining their mode is broken.
Yet they have people they never see having an impact on their game.

I play in a private group, the system I work out of just changed hands, which has completely messed up what I was doing.
I'm not screaming blue murder or demanding changes, the Solo crowd are not either. We understand it is how the game works and how it was designed.

So as Open is so "clearly" broken right now - as people from open keep saying. Then remove it. One quick and easy fix right there.

That is quite a shame. I imagine it would have been a lot better for you guys if outside, unseen forces hadn't messed up the work you were in the middle of. That is a really strong support of what we both are saying. It isn't an issue of restricting what players want to do. Solo players for the most part don't seem that invested in the meta, and that is fine. Open players seem more invested, and that is fine too! We all get issues when players from other modes muck around with what we are trying to do. It just makes the most sense to allow everyone to play how they want! I wouldn't say anyone is going around screaming. We are all quite civil here, I would say.

 

[ianw]

Are you sure, because a number of people get really upset really quickly about people "progressing" too fast.

Well honestly I think those people need to adjust their expectations.

There is no way this game can ever be a remotely "fair" competition between different players for so many reasons.

Being upset about that is like being upset because it's raining - pointless.

 

[Tarman]

That is quite a shame. I imagine it would have been a lot better for you guys if outside, unseen forces hadn't messed up the work you were in the middle of. That is a really strong support of what we both are saying. It isn't an issue of restricting what players want to do. Solo players for the most part don't seem that invested in the meta, and that is fine. Open players seem more invested, and that is fine too! We all get issues when players from other modes muck around with what we are trying to do. It just makes the most sense to allow everyone to play how they want! I wouldn't say anyone is going around screaming. We are all quite civil here, I would say.

That doesn't really support your argument at all. The point there is that in the Eliteverse there are a lot of big factors that are out of your hands sometimes, and not just because you can't find CMDR Charlie on your personal scope.

It's politics and power struggle on a galactic scale, and it's irrelevant that you can't see one specific person out of the thousands upon thousands of players, let alone the trillions upon trillions of potential NPC actions. The scope is too big to bother with limiting who can affect it in the way you'd like.

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

Solo players for the most part don't seem that invested in the meta, and that is fine.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. "Don't seem that invested"; upon what evidence are you basing this? Speaking as a solo player, I absolutely am interested but I recognise my limited ability to affect it as a single dude against the galaxy. So, evidence for your claim please.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are you sure, because a number of people get really upset really quickly about people "progressing" too fast.

Not seen that, can you give an example?

 

[ViciousMink]

That is quite a shame. I imagine it would have been a lot better for you guys if outside, unseen forces hadn't messed up the work you were in the middle of.

Except Solo players, being hooked into the BGS, experience that all the time. They are constantly, always subject to the actions of players who they cannot up and (figuratively) punch in the face. They experience this in the station markets, and they experience it in Power Play, and they experience it in minor faction influence. Now, some of those players have goals that align with their own, and others don't. This becomes a wash, background noise. The fact that players have any sort of impact on the BGS economy as it is (a few thousand characters hauling maybe a few hundred tons of product at a time is infinitesimal in the overarching economic sim) is giving far more weight to players' actions than the NPC population of the in-game universe would suggest.

Honestly, the BGS -- with influence and PowerPlay and the economics -- is a shibboleth. You're not going to get any meta 'emergent gameplay' from it. The only effective way to wedge that sort of thing into a game like ED is to go the EVE route and have player-controlled factions... and that falls into the issue of player-controlled factions being made up of maybe at most a few hundred people, while the NPC factions have tens of thousands of operators.

In ED, we are small fish in a big ocean.

 

[Phosphora]

Nor am I suggesting we remove the Solo Play element, that would be just as silly as removing Open. I do however, firmly believe that there should be a mechanical separation between the two as far as the results of player actions are concerned. Again, gotta keep things fair and fun.

A player could play open, and have their router configured to stop any contact with other players. Any mechanical separation between open and solo bgs would be unenforceable.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[KakerMix]

A player could play open, and have their router configured to stop any contact with other players. Any mechanical separation between open and solo bgs would be unenforceable.

Cheers, Phos.

This is the crux of the whole issue. Instancing means that even if everything was open mode only and you tried to blockade a station you'd get a player that would slide right on past in open because of instancing. What is the difference between a player in solo mode and a player in open mode but in a different instance from you? I'd argue there isn't one because in both cases there is a player that is free from your influence.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That is quite a shame. I imagine it would have been a lot better for you guys if outside, unseen forces hadn't messed up the work you were in the middle of. That is a really strong support of what we both are saying. It isn't an issue of restricting what players want to do. Solo players for the most part don't seem that invested in the meta, and that is fine. Open players seem more invested, and that is fine too! We all get issues when players from other modes muck around with what we are trying to do. It just makes the most sense to allow everyone to play how they want! I wouldn't say anyone is going around screaming. We are all quite civil here, I would say.

Well, it stands to reason that in a single system with millions, and sometimes billions of people living there all going about their business, there are always unseen forces operating, since you can't keep tabs on millions or billions.

Solo players for the most part don't seem that invested in the meta, and that is fine. Open players seem more invested, and that is fine too!

Horsepuppies.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

That is quite a shame. I imagine it would have been a lot better for you guys if outside, unseen forces hadn't messed up the work you were in the middle of. That is a really strong support of what we both are saying. It isn't an issue of restricting what players want to do. Solo players for the most part don't seem that invested in the meta, and that is fine. Open players seem more invested, and that is fine too! We all get issues when players from other modes muck around with what we are trying to do. It just makes the most sense to allow everyone to play how they want! I wouldn't say anyone is going around screaming. We are all quite civil here, I would say.

What no-one is fessing up to is what they define as fair.

Can someone stop and say what they mean when they say fair? Please... PWWUUULEEEEAAASEEE?

And... the highlighted ^^^. don't seem? Why does it seem that way to you. <sits back on chair and waits for patient to answer>

 

[Ozram]

It's probably been suggested and argued (I have had a nagging feeling about this for a while) but I think something like powerplay, which is inherently an indirect form of PVP, should be open mode only. This would create very direct reason for blockades and other PVP. Right now it can be directly avoided and I find that a shame (not a deal breaker, just a missed opportunity for real player interaction).

 

[KakerMix]

It's probably been suggested and argued (I have had a nagging feeling about this for a while) but I think something like powerplay, which is inherently an indirect form of PVP, should be open mode only. This would create very direct reason for blockades and other PVP. Right now it can be directly avoided and I find that a shame (not a deal breaker, just a missed opportunity for real player interaction).

It has been but since the game instances your "This would create very direct reason for blockades and other PVP" can't happen. You try to blockade a station in open someone is going to cruise right by your blockade while in open because the game has put you in different instances. Instancing is the whole issue.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

It's probably been suggested and argued (I have had a nagging feeling about this for a while) but I think something like powerplay, which is inherently an indirect form of PVP, should be open mode only. This would create very direct reason for blockades and other PVP. Right now it can be directly avoided and I find that a shame (not a deal breaker, just a missed opportunity for real player interaction).

I tried some PP in solo the other day delivering trade agreements and I can tell you... man, those NPC underminers hanging around Gateway's main star are not to be messed with. 3 interdiction, two of which are wings, and I ran screaming like a little girl with my canopy gone and 53%... just to get interdicted AGAIN!

There are already blockades in Solo that are quite effective.