The Smuggling discussion thread

[Ziggy Stardust]

So they aren't allowed to decide what is and is not an exploit when playing their game that is hosted on their servers? That sounds bonkers to me.

And they're also not allowed to decide the Earth in their game is cube-shaped.

A game exploit is the use of a game mechanic as unintended by their developers. If what you say is true, and it's not a game exploit, than the use of the game mechanic of mode switching and a reroll of the Bulletin Board was known by Frontier Development, and they intended the users to use it in that way.

Now they also said that this practice is against the spirit of the game, so they withdrew it.

Now think. Why would Frontier Development knowingly put a feature in the game that is against the spirit of the game, only to withdraw it because it is against the spirit of the game.

How does that make sense to you?

 

[GrumpyMinerSmuggles]

holy shnikies, this freaking thread needs to get hit with the nerf bat. What is up with this?! So many threads merged, and it's merged in a way it's so hard to keep track.

THANKS.

Because that's TOTALLY what I wanted when trying to make things OBVIOUS for people to FIND.

 

[KellyR]

And they're also not allowed to decide the Earth in their game is cube-shaped.

A game exploit is the use of a game mechanic as unintended by their developers. If what you say is true, and it's not a game exploit, than the use of the game mechanic of mode switching and a reroll of the Bulletin Board was known by Frontier Development, and they intended the users to use it in that way.

Now they also said that this practice is against the spirit of the game, so they withdrew it.

Now think. Why would Frontier Development knowingly put a feature in the game that is against the spirit of the game, only to withdraw it because it is against the spirit of the game.

How does that make sense to you?

It doesn't have to make sense to me; or to you or anyone else, either, for that matter.

I fear we have a basic philosophical conflict. I say they can do anything they want with their game and the only recourse we have is not to play it. If you feel differently, then fine. Let's just agree to disagree. Because it's obvious I won't change your mind, and you certainly won't change my mind concerning the basic civility of following someone else's rules while in their house.

 

[acg515]

I just want to add that at first I really enjoyed smuggling in my sidewinder, until I realized that I wasn't going to make any money doing it and it wasn't hard to do in the first place. I think if they had made it harder and more lucrative, that's what I'd be doing right now.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It doesn't have to make sense to me; or to you or anyone else, either, for that matter.

I fear we have a basic philosophical conflict. I say they can do anything they want with their game and the only recourse we have is not to play it. If you feel differently, then fine. Let's just agree to disagree. Because it's obvious I won't change your mind, and you certainly won't change my mind concerning the basic civility of following someone else's rules while in their house.

It's not about " the basic civility following someone else's rules while in their house" It's about a definition. Where on Mars did you draw "basic civility following someone else's rules while in their house" from?

But you're right. Without arguments you won't convince me. And by avoiding addressing mine, I think we both know what's what.



@Frontier Development, I just had a great idea. You can be the first software company which has a game without any bugs.

Just go on record you don't consider the bug a bug, but you consider it code which doesn't act in the spirit of the game. And by just saying that, there's a good portion of players who will actually go with that!

You're welcomeView attachment 71846

 

[Burlsol]

I just want to add that at first I really enjoyed smuggling in my sidewinder, until I realized that I wasn't going to make any money doing it and it wasn't hard to do in the first place. I think if they had made it harder and more lucrative, that's what I'd be doing right now.

Smuggling starts to make sense once you can afford something fairly quick with cargo space. Cobra, Diamondback Explorer, Asp work well. For smaller cargo space of Cobra or Diamondback, stick to BB missions for smuggling. Once you have rank and faction high enough you can make 40-100k from a single mission. Depending on mission area you can often find one mission after another, paired with other missions (look for systems that have a high population near eachother).

For about 2.5m you can get a Cobra with long range, good cargo space, low replacement cost, that can outrun almost everything (>400 boost speed when fully loaded), but which is fairly forging for mistakes (hitting the fence outside starbases, getting interdicted by clippers, ect) . http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_...2480303012o01.AwRj4yKA.Aw1-kA==?bn=Rum Runner Or fully upgraded, combat capable piracy ship for just under 10m http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_...6.Iw1-kA==.IwBhCYy7uBmcQ===?bn=Rum Runner Mk2

This would also give you a fairly solid ship for normal transporting for the same reasons.

 

[KellyR]

It's not about " the basic civility following someone else's rules while in their house" It's about a definition. Where on Mars did you draw "basic civility following someone else's rules while in their house" from?

But you're right. Without arguments you won't convince me. And by avoiding addressing mine, I think we both know what's what.



@Frontier Development, I just had a great idea. You can be the first software company which has a game without any bugs.

Just go on record you don't consider the bug a bug, but you consider it code which doesn't act in the spirit of the game. And by just saying that, there's a good portion of players who will actually go with that!

You're welcomeView attachment 71846

I'll tell you where I get the basic civility part. I work in a homeless shelter. We have people coming in there all the time who want to continue to do as they have done (while they are on our property) and screw the rules. In their house they can make what rules they want. We ask for the same courtesy. If they want to throw litter on the floor where they pay rent, they have that right. But they don't have the right to do it where we provide them food and shelter. That's just one of the milder examples. There are many more things that they seem to think they can do that are much worse than that. They seem to feel we are trampling on their rights. All the while ignoring our rights.

That's why I say FD can do with their game what they want. All they have to worry about is future sales.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'll tell you where I get the basic civility part. I work in a homeless shelter. We have people coming in there all the time who want to continue to do as they have done (while they are on our property) and screw the rules. In their house they can make what rules they want. We ask for the same courtesy. If they want to throw litter on the floor where they pay rent, they have that right. But they don't have the right to do it where we provide them food and shelter. That's just one of the milder examples. There are many more things that they seem to think they can do that are much worse than that. They seem to feel we are trampling on their rights. All the while ignoring our rights.

I meant how does it relate to the point I made?

edit: btw: you get auto-repped for working in a homeless shelter.

That's why I say FD can do with their game what they want. All they have to worry about is future sales.

No argument here as well. But still unrelated to the point I made.

Here it is again:

A game exploit is the use of a game mechanic as unintended by their developers. If what you say is true, and it's not a game exploit, than the use of the game mechanic of mode switching and a reroll of the Bulletin Board was known by Frontier Development, and they intended the users to use it in that way.

 

[KellyR]

I meant how does it relate to the point I made?

edit: btw: you get auto-repped for working in a homeless shelter.

No argument here as well. But still unrelated to the point I made.

Here it is again:

I see what you are saying, but if the devs don't consider it an exploit then basically what they are saying is that they won't punish people for using it and I think that's their right. It may still be an exploit, but it is an acceptable exploit to the ones who make the rules. And as far as I'm concerned, we don't have the moral authority to look down upon those who take advantage of such since the powers that be have no problem with it.

But technically, you are correct. It was an exploit in fact. But not an exploit de jure (legally).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I see what you are saying, but if the devs don't consider it an exploit then basically what they are saying is that they won't punish people for using it and I think that's their right. It may still be an exploit, but it is an acceptable exploit to the ones who make the rules. And as far as I'm concerned, we don't have the moral authority to look down upon those who take advantage of such since the powers that be have no problem with it.

But technically, you are correct. It was an exploit in fact. But not an exploit de jure (legally).

I don't think it's a punishable exploit either, as many exploits aren't. And I'm not looking down on those who took advantage.

Agreeing to agree is so much better than agreeing to disagree

 

[Petrvs]

Exploit or not, what FD did by "fixing" this was remove the only real worthwhile new feature in 1.4 update from idiots like myself who do not like to play login bingo.

After a lot of months defending the game from all those "game is boring", "game is shallow", "game is a grind", "game is just about numbers" mobs, and after so much time trying to convince people that the game actually showed some promise and was going towards a brighter and more interesting, although a bit distant, future, and taking the time to share with other people ways I found to go by without having to suffer painful and boring grinding, I feel somewhat stabbed in the back, and mostly feel generally like an idiot now.

Its like FD is tuning the game to account for the login-bingo players making reasonable amounts of credits, "intercoursing" the regular players in the process.

Even the pre 1.4 smuggling missions, which were the way I mostly made some credits to finance more interesting although mostly revenue-less activities, are now mostly gone. We're back to the days where the bulletin board was only for new players in their eravate sidewinders.

I most definitely will not grind for a second. But I most definitively do not want to play login bingo either.

My game activity for the last week, was loading the game 2 times, staring a bit at the hangar, sigh, curse and exit.

Not cool, FD, not cool...

i second this, reverting a change to the mission that was showing some more options just because the usual suspect cried wolf wolf is a knee jerk reaction

- - - Updated - - -

Hoho, Ziggy with a serious hat on, what a rare sight.

Exploit or not, stuff's gone and a game without stuff isn't up to stuff. I prefer overly paid missions that you can stack up over no missions that work as intended, i.e. being gone. Why are people so afraid of abuse in this game that features are not implemented (player to player trade) and content is temporarily cut (smuggler missions)?

And i I have to quote you on this

ij an alpha backer and I see this community always crying and dismissing possibilities, being scared of having fun, tinkering etc.

i don't understand them at all after all these years

- - - Updated - - -

As always, FD fails to communicate properly. It mentions the missions will become more common, but no timeframe, no information about the fixes they're going to implement. 2 to 3 lines of post in a thread which proceeds rapidly so everyone misses it just doesn't cut it. They don't seem to realize this issue makes a lot of players upset, which is rather unbelievable if you see the backlash, and it's because of a mistake on their part. Keeping everyone in the dark grows more unrest, and that's the point where we are now.

It's about time Frontier weighed in on the issue with their solutions and their plan to implement them. And not in a drive-by post in a mega thread, but as a sticky for everyone to find.

Tempers flare, a discussion to be had. I cannot resist.

But you're right. I need to throw in more gags.

where is this posts with the solutions, or sticky?

 

[Roraima]

I've been enjoying flying my T6 again after so long. Makes a great ship for these missions. Made 28 million last night from one run to Sothis and back!

 

[Sin-rG]

Ok thanks! It wasn't really an exploit as far as I was concerned. I was running missions avoiding interdictions and generally doing alright. I think they missions/jobs pay really crap on the whole. I can make a fortune flying 400ly from the bubble exploring systems in no time at all... unless they've screwed with that too. in fact, I was surprised how easy it was to get my name tagged on systems. Also amazed at how little distance I covered in my 3 day jaunt.

Still, would be nice to know which state the system is in (Civil war/unrest etc).

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

There's 2 schools of thought on the matter

- There was an exploit which meant missions were (temporarily) made rarer by FD
- People were having fun, so people complained, so FD made sure fun was made rare

Take your pick

Option 2...for me... though Sothis(which I as a proper smugger just ignored and did my mission's in my local area) needed to be fixed.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Like Ziggy said, there was a major exploit that was lots of fun and people were enjoying the smuggling experience and the millions of credits is was getting them. Smuggling got hit with a nerf all the way across the board, so now smuggling missions are rare to come across, and when you do find them in the bubble, they pay peanuts.

It wasn't an exploit, to be fair - the payout was linked to the distance needed to travel, and given the ones in the bubble gave 600K (to travel under 100LY) being asked to travel 350LY+ for several million credits was fair.

What was nerfed was the rarity of them .. shame, used to enjoy them.

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

It wasn't an exploit, to be fair - the payout was linked to the distance needed to travel, and given the ones in the bubble gave 600K (to travel under 100LY) being asked to travel 350LY+ for several million credits was fair.

What was nerfed was the rarity of them .. shame, used to enjoy them.

The most obvious solution(thogh not as easy as the mega nerf) was stop them from appearing at thos location's.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It wasn't an exploit, to be fair - the payout was linked to the distance needed to travel, and given the ones in the bubble gave 600K (to travel under 100LY) being asked to travel 350LY+ for several million credits was fair.

What was nerfed was the rarity of them .. shame, used to enjoy them.

The exploit was switching modes a lot to stack them.

I have seen it called: "Playing the menu".

Playing the menu!

 

[CMDR Brock Samson]

They're still there but takes longer to stack them.I'm still making 50 mil a day.

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

They're still there but takes longer to stack them.I'm still making 50 mil a day.

I'm making under 500k in 2, the regular mission's don't show up enough anymore and some don't wdon't want to go out to BFE to make decent profit.

 

[Seamus Masterson]

Smuggling missions are rare but still long range missions hauling waste for millions. I find it funny the sense of outrage at the exploit. People switch modes in res hunting?