Sense, Sensibility and Nonsense: A Sensitive Inquiry About Race and E:D Idea of the Future

[CaptainSeriousFun]

Hello Colleagues and Commanders,

I would like to have a conversation. It begins, I think, with recognizing that I play all kinds of games - and have done so since the Telstar Ranger - but tend to prefer experiences where I can "be me": where I can craft a character that looks either like me - a dark-skinned black man - or however I want that character to look. Experiences such as the Uncharted experiences are also fun and compelling games, and I like playing as Nate and others, but really feel the immersion when I can place myself as myself in the game (Mass Effect is a good example for me). I'm excited that E: D's anticipated character creator appears to be a step in the direction of allowing all of us to do that.

However (and this is where I'm looking, really, for the community to give me a sense of itself on this) I also like to see dark-skinned persons like myself in substantive NPC, leadership or "boss" roles in-game. From the Flintstones to the Jetsons to, unfortunately, E: D, I've grown up with and now persist as an adult with an absence of black women and men in key roles in my gaming worlds. Mass Effect's Captain Anderson is an interesting exception to a general rule, in my experience.

The Powers in E: D's Powerplay reflect this sensibility; where are the - where are any - dark-skinned leaders in our future? I leveled the same concern, to be clear, at RSI and their Cast Announcement for SC - totally absent any dark-skinned folks in their future as well. RSI shared with me a submission to have patience, and that I would see future announcements that would reflect diversity in the direction of black persons in their vision of the future.

Its not that I expect everyone to be black; far from it. But I do feel a trend and sense that dark-skinned people are sometimes just forgotten when crafting alternative or future gaming spaces. I'd like to both know that Frontier hasn't forgotten dark-skinned black people in their conception of a 32nd Century future, as well as the degree to which anyone else thinks at all about this type of thing (that is, sort of wanting to see yourself in a participatory gaming setting reflecting a future).

I guess I'm not looking for knee-jerk (or just jerk) responses. I'm looking for the best of what I've seen plenty of times across this forum.

Is it weird, or rude, or right, or paranoid, or healthy to want to see yourself, and people who look like yourself, in the games (particularly those you play that reflect a vision of a galactic or universal future) you play?

Thanks for your considered thoughts on the matter, and thanks to Frontier for creating a space for real dialogue alongside a great sim/game space experience; I appreciate it.


CMDR Mel Brennan

 

[Kicks]

I think pretty much, our future out there in the galaxy will have everyone of every colour, all over the place. And thanks to advances in science, I'm sure there'll be greens, blues, violets and whatever other colour you can think of.

Being white, I rarely notice these things but then why would I? I understand your point and hope the responses to your question are polite as diversity is rarely a bad thing and perhaps we should have used procedural generation for the leaders!

Whether or not you get more authorative black people in Elite Dangerous (who knows what's on the "Horizon"), you gotta admit, we'd never be able to pull this off:

Fly Safe, CMDR

 

[Katejina]

Is it weird, or rude, or right, or paranoid, or healthy to want to see yourself, and people who look like yourself, in the games (particularly those you play that reflect a vision of a galactic or universal future) you play?

Not at all and I appreciate the subject being approached so considerably. Mass Effect did a wonderful job, I think, in expanding the boundaries of equality. I also just enjoyed the opening part of Fallout 4 with Preston Garvey, though he does take a back seat of sorts after you step in to help in Concord. The Walking Dead is the best example I can think of with an equal diversity (between sexuality, color, age, religion) and I hope it becomes more mainstream. I'm sure it's no different for Frontier and I'm sure we will see more of it as time goes on. As it stands, there is a severe lack of appearance for NPCs in general. We might just have to wait and see how the NPC uses the character generator.

 

[CaptainSeriousFun]

...Whether or not you get more authorative black people in Elite Dangerous (who knows what's on the "Horizon"), you gotta admit, we'd never be able to pull this off:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Lando6-2.jpg

Fly Safe, CMDR

lol, no doubt.

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Not at all and I appreciate the subject being approached so considerably. Mass Effect did a wonderful job, I think, in expanding the boundaries of equality.

I agree; boundaries of race, gender and orientation were broken down across that trilogy I think.

I also just enjoyed the opening part of Fallout 4 with Preston Garvey, though he does take a back seat of sorts after you step in to help in Concord. The Walking Dead is the best example I can think of with an equal diversity (between sexuality, color, age, religion) and I hope it becomes more mainstream. I'm sure it's no different for Frontier and I'm sure we will see more of it as time goes on. As it stands, there is a severe lack of appearance for NPCs in general. We might just have to wait and see how the NPC uses the character generator.

FO4 is a great example of character generation where anyone can be themselves. I do hope that Frontier have a plan that ends up exploring NPCs, "significant" or otherwise, not in any "quota" way, but in the considered way in which they've thought through other evolutions and projections regarding a type of future.

 

[Bacalao]

Not at all and I appreciate the subject being approached so considerably. Mass Effect did a wonderful job, I think, in expanding the boundaries of equality. I also just enjoyed the opening part of Fallout 4 with Preston Garvey, though he does take a back seat of sorts after you step in to help in Concord. The Walking Dead is the best example I can think of with an equal diversity (between sexuality, color, age, religion) and I hope it becomes more mainstream. I'm sure it's no different for Frontier and I'm sure we will see more of it as time goes on. As it stands, there is a severe lack of appearance for NPCs in general. We might just have to wait and see how the NPC uses the character generator.

I think they should be careful with "equality", I don't particularly care who is where, doing what, but it's very contrived and boring to have a galaxy/world/lore/etc where there is one of "each" to make sure every group is represented, I'd rather see a dynamic (which would feel more real) than a list that checks all the right boxes on all the right forms (which would feel more government mandated). I'm not sure why ED seems so...monochromatic?...it may be oversight, it may just be what the OP says, a bunch of people developing a game who made leaders that are similar to themselves. It may be that there is a reason why in the Elite galaxy it is that way.
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I think as things like powerplay come more from the player created factions and leaders, we'll naturally start to see a more diverse bunch of characters, for traits in addition to skin color. I think we'll see more diversity in their ethics, character traits and methods, all of which will make the galaxy richer and more vibrant, I hope it doesn't happen because we feel like we need to fill all the roles, as it were.

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FO4 is a great example of character generation where anyone can be themselves. I do hope that Frontier have a plan that ends up exploring this, not in any "quota" way, but in the considered way in which they've thought through other evolutions and projections regarding a type of future.

Well said.
Also, people keep tempting me to get FO4...must....resist....

 

[Kristov]

First reaction..it's a video game, get off it, we don't need that social crusader here, thank you, move along.

Upon further reflection...see the above.

I'm a Cherokee, a native tribe of North America before the Europeans showed up, and I've never, ever, asked for Native Americans/Amerind/Whatever you want to call us, to be represented in any game, that's just beyond silly, it's stupid and selfish, it's ME forcing someone else to cater to ME specifically. And that is what you are suggesting, that FD cater to YOU specifically because YOU want to see that in THEIR rendition of the universe.

The average gamer is white, 38 yrs old and almost equally split between male and female(51 and 49%). That demographic isn't going to give a rat's furry rear end about seeing non-whites in any power positions in the game, they won't care about that at all, it's a video game! I don't look at the race of the powers that be in video games, never have, and it's not because I'm personally almost never been represented in them racially, but because it's a VIDEO GAME! Half the time I'm looking at ALIENS or robots or gods only knows what the hell THAT thing is..so who the hell cares?

So kindly take your social crusader and go do something actually USEFUL with it, in the real world, where it can actually matter, instead of here, where it has no impact, no import and is just a waste of time.

 

[GilliganTX]

All the same color once the helmet is on.

The powers are pretty monochromatic though, I'll grant you that.

 

[CaptainSeriousFun]

I think they should be careful with "equality", I don't particularly care who is where, doing what, but it's very contrived and boring to have a galaxy/world/lore/etc where there is one of "each" to make sure every group is represented, I'd rather see a dynamic (which would feel more real) than a list that checks all the right boxes on all the right forms (which would feel more government mandated). I'm not sure why ED seems so...monochromatic?...it may be oversight, it may just be what the OP says, a bunch of people developing a game who made leaders that are similar to themselves. It may be that there is a reason why in the Elite galaxy it is that way.

Powerful submission. That's, I think, what I'm hoping for, and you've said it well: a dynamic that encourages a mosaic of diversity to flourish and manifest in ways driven both by FD and the community. Here's hoping.

Well said.
Also, people keep tempting me to get FO4...must....resist....

It's an interesting meditation on a variety of topics and, you know, shooting stuff!

 

[Armour]

Given the probable advances in genetic manipulation in 1000 years time, ethnicity might become more about choice than heritage, subject to the whims of fashion, so the concept of "fair representation" could easily depend upon a multitude of factors other than our current demographics.

For instance, in such a future you might commonly happen upon people sporting bioluminescent skin (possibly configured like a display matrix to show their own personal "paint job"? Get the shop ready, FDEV!). There's an obvious case for things like gills, and any number of other modifications to our standard configuration that provide advantages in certain environments.

If all that were true in the setting of this game, the idea of racial diversity as a goal would make about as much sense as a campaign to get people wearing red socks.

 

[Kicks]

If all that were true in the setting of this game, the idea of racial diversity as a goal would make about as much sense as a campaign to get people wearing red socks.

About that. Why aren't yours on yet?? huh?

 

[babelfisch]

Felicia Winters and Patreus are "Obama black".

 

[CaptainSeriousFun]

...The powers are pretty monochromatic though, I'll grant you that.

I guess one of the things that stood out to me upon seeing the Powers was visceral, and not necessarily fair to Frontier... like "I feel like I see White, East Asian and Indian (Delhi, not the Dakotas) folks in the vision of the leaders / power brokers of the future, but no one who looks like me!" Again, though, a quota for pandering's sake is less interesting - and less Elite - than a dynamic that reflects how the galaxy got to how it is as gameplay / game lore. Of course, my hope is that over the long term we find all kinds of folks included in that!

 

[Katejina]

I think they should be careful with "equality", I don't particularly care who is where, doing what, but it's very contrived and boring to have a galaxy/world/lore/etc where there is one of "each" to make sure every group is represented, I'd rather see a dynamic (which would feel more real) than a list that checks all the right boxes on all the right forms (which would feel more government mandated). I'm not sure why ED seems so...monochromatic?...it may be oversight, it may just be what the OP says, a bunch of people developing a game who made leaders that are similar to themselves. It may be that there is a reason why in the Elite galaxy it is that way.

Personally equality to me just means that everyone has equal opportunity, not necessarily that the spread should be even. I understand that people want to see more variety, but sometimes it comes down to chemistry/synergy. Something like The Walking Dead works really well, to me. It all feels natural. But there are some places where it seems almost forced. One example (not necessarily of color being out of place, but still relevant) was Blindspot's recent episode. It was more or less all about Ferguson and police brutality and police killings. It was so forced it was hard to take seriously.

 

[Armour]

About that. Why aren't yours on yet?? huh?

Don't oppress my black-sock-clad feet with your r/redsock melanophobia! Check your privilege!

 

[Faybs]

The powers are pretty monochromatic though, I'll grant you that.

I disagree with that... Winters, Patreus, LYR and Delaine are distinctly non-Caucasian. Antal also has a south Asian vibe to him, although I haven't been to that part of the world so I can't narrow it down further than that. We should encourage companies that show diversity, not just go "meh, not good enough"

 

[Kicks]

Felicia Winters and Patreus are "Obama black".

Ha! I didn't even know that was a term.

Ship Purchaser: Yes, I'd like a black viper, please.
Sales Rep: Dark Black, Michael Jackson, or Obama black?
Ship Purchaser: Uhm...

 

[YinYin]

Is it weird, or rude, or right, or paranoid, or healthy to want to see yourself, and people who look like yourself, in the games (particularly those you play that reflect a vision of a galactic or universal future) you play?

right and healthy.

I thought Patreus is dark skinned (?). Well, it's clearly not enough.
Mostly seems like power play characters are generally token figures.
Only one asian as well, if I'm not mistaken.

Good reason to kill off/push down/extend powers.

I think they should be careful with "equality", I don't particularly care who is where, doing what, but it's very contrived and boring to have a galaxy/world/lore/etc where there is one of "each" to make sure every group is represented, I'd rather see a dynamic (which would feel more real) than a list that checks all the right boxes on all the right forms (which would feel more government mandated).

That is exactly what the 10 powers look like to me right now ...

 

[GilliganTX]

I guess one of the things that stood out to me upon seeing the Powers was visceral, and not necessarily fair to Frontier... like "I feel like I see White, East Asian and Indian (Delhi, not the Dakotas) folks in the vision of the leaders / power brokers of the future, but no one who looks like me!" Again, though, a quota for pandering's sake is less interesting - and less Elite - than a dynamic that reflects how the galaxy got to how it is as gameplay / game lore. Of course, my hope is that over the long term we find all kinds of folks included in that!

Yeah they're not obvioulsy anglo-caucasion, different ethnic backgrounds are (somewhat) represented. Though even winters and patreus, which I guess were FD's attempt at POC, look very white washed to me.

I disagree with that... Winters, Patreus, LYR and Delaine are distinctly non-Caucasian. Antal also has a south Asian vibe to him, although I haven't been to that part of the world so I can't narrow it down further than that. We should encourage companies that show diversity, not just go "meh, not good enough"

Winters just looks like she's got a good tan to me, not necessarily non-Caucasian. Patreus, again, to me, looks latino. I totally see what ethnic back grounds they were going for, but I feel they were white-washed to some extent Delaine is snow-white/albino!



Not that I really care all that much. It's a video game, and, like said, it's all the same behind the helmet.


*shrug*

 

[CaptainSeriousFun]

Clearly right and healthy.

I thought Patreus is dark skinned (?). Well, it's clearly not enough....

I felt myself early on stretching to see Patreus as potentially that way as well, then I thought about the way in which Frontier have demonstrated their intention all across the remainder of the game, and gave them more credit than that. That is, if Frontier wanted to show us a dark-skinned Power person in the game experience, they simply would have done it, clearly and unambiguously. My guess is that I'm expressing a stream of thought-experience that maybe they've not thought about in quite this way, and that's no judgement, just a potential insight.

 

[Terry Bruge-Hiplo]

I imagine the avatar creator will have some kind of skin tone sliders, but I'm curious how racial characteristics will be implemented. I quite like how the MakeHuman 3d character creator suite approaches it - it has three macro sliders for adjusting the amount of "African", "Asian", and "Caucasian" qualities of the avatar, which can be further tweaked with individual face/body parameter sliders. As you increase one the slider toward one extreme, the others tend toward the opposite extreme, but you can blend the characteristics too. It also has a similar approach to "gender", where it doesn't have to be specifically male or female, but somewhere in the middle. Check it out, if you haven't seen it.

I have wondered what people think of Archon Delaine as, to me, he seems like he has all the characteristics of a person of colour, but with albinism. Like, you could say that it's a perfect example of "white washing", but then again, Krondon from the hip hop duo White Boiz has albinism and looks a lot like him. Thoughts?