Is it possible for ED to ever become seamless?

With new games on the horizon (see what I did there? :p ) offering seamless transitions between "cruise", "space" and planetside (and whatever else they may have), is it ever possible for ED to be upgraded to match this seamlessness?

Generally I don't mind the "transition screens" in ED, but occasionally they can be immersion breaking (like, say, longer "slowdown" when approaching a busy station, or the fact that there are plenty of NPC contacts in cruise, but as soon as I interdict an NPC and go back to cruise the area is all clear). It'd be nice to have a smoother game, no?
 
Impossible to know without knowing the limitations of the Cobra engine itself and the Frontier future development plans for that engine.

Cobra at the moment isn't a engine available to other dev to poar over and understand it limitations.

We do know that persistence NPCs is something Frontier will continue to work on.

The have also said that it be possible to add the ability for pilots to fly from outside of hyperspace from one star system to the next but adding this to the game isn't a dev priority. It shouldn't be that much harder to do it for planets and asteroid belts.
 
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People need to understand that its the instancing and match making that make it like that. I: can do it because it's just one big map. how it will work with 100 players are still to be seen and not demonstrated for the public yet. the 32 player limit is due to bandwidth and there are a lot of players who are on a lousy connection.

if we all were on LAN it would be seamless and you could have 200 players if you wanted. However if one commander connect from South Africa and one from Hawaii you are probably going to have issues. I think many people just don't realise what the challenges are for a game like ED.
 
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People need to understand that its the instancing and match making that make it like that. I: can do it because it's just one big map. how it will work with 100 players are still to be seen and not demonstrated for the public yet. the 32 player limit is due to bandwidth and there are a lot of players who are on a lousy connection.

if we all were on LAN it would be seamless and you could have 200 players if you wanted. However if one commander connect from South Africa and one from Hawaii you are probably going to have issues. I think many people just don't realise what the challenges are for a game like ED.

Yeah, I agree. The complexities for setting up a functional game like this are enormous, but I do agree with the OP as well. I think the instancing/matchmaking as you move between SC, HS, normal space etc feels disjointed. Hyperspace feels like a loading screen to me, and the lack of persistent NPCs, or that slight lag/load when switching makes me feel like normal space and SC are two separate systems. Even with the P2P design as such, I think these transitions could be done better to fool the player to thinking its the same seamless universe. Over time, I am sure these things will be refined. Its decent now, but not great IMO.
 
That said, the transitions could do with a bit of work, maybe proper surroundings and a more accelerating/decelerating feeling when you change between the various states, proper visual distortions from speed maybe?
 
People need to understand that its the instancing and match making that make it like that. I: can do it because it's just one big map. how it will work with 100 players are still to be seen and not demonstrated for the public yet. the 32 player limit is due to bandwidth and there are a lot of players who are on a lousy connection.

if we all were on LAN it would be seamless and you could have 200 players if you wanted. However if one commander connect from South Africa and one from Hawaii you are probably going to have issues. I think many people just don't realise what the challenges are for a game like ED.

They could perform a connection quality/bandwidth check as part of the startup process, then gather the high-bandwidth players into instances together - those on low-bandwidth connections would stay as-is. The high-bandwidth instances could raise the player instance limit - which could mean 20/30/40-a-side battles in combat zones, or it could just mean the normal space and supercruise instances for a system are joined into one. If there are hundreds of players in a system, you'll still need multiple instances to support them all; but once you're in one there would be no transitions when dropping into a signal source, or a RES, or a station, or when jumping into supercruise.

It would also mean when you're in normal space, you'd be able to see ships zipping around in supercruise past you. It's always seemed a bit of an idiosyncrasy that in supercruise you can see others in supercruise from dozens/hundreds of Ls away, but once you drop into normal space they're all invisible.
 
That said, the transitions could do with a bit of work, maybe proper surroundings and a more accelerating/decelerating feeling when you change between the various states, proper visual distortions from speed maybe?

Agreed, it's the number one killer of immersion for me, when dropping out of supercruise into a belt for instance, the asteroids just suddenly appear and disappear before transitioning in, same with other stuff too, and the really annoying fps drops at the start of a hyperspace jump too.
 
Agreed, it's the number one killer of immersion for me, when dropping out of supercruise into a belt for instance, the asteroids just suddenly appear and disappear before transitioning in, same with other stuff too, and the really annoying fps drops at the start of a hyperspace jump too.

Try a slow gradual descent into a belt, you'll notice a difference
 
Try a slow gradual descent into a belt, you'll notice a difference

I have actually tried that in the past, but didn't notice much difference. It seems it needs to load the instance before it can generate any of the items within it, so there is still an inevitable delay. Same goes for res or CZs, where you enter .. then .. magically everything appears.
 
For me it's fine as is except the exit to Stations. They could very easily make the dot zoom into the Station rather than disappearing!
They added a Sun in HS on approach and is about 5mm diameter. It's an indication of the Star Class by colour if you failed to look it up in time. They could make that also zoom into full view too when exiting.
The stars positions are already seemless and it has a blurred vision effect. I like it so far ;)
I only hope Horizons is NOT a menu to load and that the planet loading screen is much as it is already with all detail pre-loaded and drops you smoothly to then descend (albeit much faster to land!)
 
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i agree that stations in super cruise need love. i don t see any reason why they aren t rendered. etienne
 
But each system in ED is also effectively one big map. For all intents and purposes, other systems do not exist until you load new one after the jump.

The system is an instance shared between up to 32 players. Other players beyond that number have their own 'parallel universe' instance of the same system. So there are a lot of parallel identical maps happening at the same time.
 
The system is an instance shared between up to 32 players. Other players beyond that number have their own 'parallel universe' instance of the same system. So there are a lot of parallel identical maps happening at the same time.

An instance, as far as I understand, does not necessarily consist of a whole system. It simply means the max number of players which can see each other at any given time is 32. This means, if you are in supercruise in a system, you can see 31 other players in supercruise with you. This does not mean if you have say 2 more people in SC with you that other 29 can be at normal space in the same system. You'll simply not be in the same instance with people in normal space if you are in SC, ever. That's why you need to follow wakes if you want to be in the same instance in normal space. The wake is simply a key for the servers to try and put people in the same instance. Also this is why there are two kinds of wake, low and high energy.

The reason for the interstellar jump animation:

When you jump from a system to another, the target system is generated by your computer from scratch according to the rules of the procedural generation algorithm. This is to ensure you'll get the same system every time without necessarily keeping the whole galaxy in your hard drive. Even the textures of planets are generated from seeds if I'm not mistaken.

Space stations and ships on the other hand, have meshes and textures that have to be stored. That is what most of the HD space for the client is needed. Persistent meshes, textures and sounds. This is why you can jump straight from a station to a new system but not station to station. A station, with all the ships around it has to be loaded into the memory from storage, not generated. It has too many details for that to be feasible. If you jumped from a station straight to another station in another system for example, your computer would need to first generate the target system from scratch, then load up the station and ship assets. As a result you would have to wait even longer than you wait now. The same is the reason for the announced 'orbital cruise' mechanic. It'll divide up the loading process so you won't have to wait for the system and everything on the planets to load up before arriving there. The system will load up as usual, then you'll approach a planet in SC, you'll drop to orbital cruise which is basically loading up a station since a planet with everything on it is not necessarily bigger load than a single station is. PG textures and geometry for the planet is a no issue. The structures of the bases are about the same complexity with a station so it wouldn't require much more space. I'm sure they'll divide up the planet surfaces into regions, just like the asteroid rings around the planets so when in the vicinity of a new base, it'll load, just like bodies in the fields load when you fly through them.

TL,DR: Instancing and Procedural Generation of the 400,000,000,000 start systems are separate reasons for non-seamlessness. They don't necessarily cause the issues by themselves. They however are better than the alternatives in terms of hardware efficiency. Either everyone would need a supercomputer with stupid amounts of storage space on top of the supercluster of servers to run the game, or it would need to be run on a supercluster of servers and streamed to everybody for the price of a hefty subscription every month if you wanted to achieve real seamlessness.
 
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i agree that stations in super cruise need love. i don t see any reason why they aren t rendered. etienne

Because it is not visible at that distance? You drop out at 1 Mm, which is 1000km. The station would have to be the size of the Great Wall of China to be visible at that range. But I do agree with X-Terminator above that the dot turning into the station as you instance in with it would be cool.
 
Because it is not visible at that distance? You drop out at 1 Mm, which is 1000km. The station would have to be the size of the Great Wall of China to be visible at that range. But I do agree with X-Terminator above that the dot turning into the station as you instance in with it would be cool.

It shouldn't be too hard to do it. DBOBE answered a question about the seamlessness in the last QA stream of his, and looked like they wanted to better hide the seams but had other priorities. I think they'll get to it in time, especially as their playerbase acquire better computers along the way. Maybe they realised a more complex approach animation hogged down some low end computers unnecessarily so they had to cut it out.

A better way to do it would be to get rid of the dot altogether and drop people farther from the station which will lengthen the trip to the station but give enough time to load the high res assets. They decided against it probably because first, the popping in of high res geometry and textures would look jarring, second, they thought players would get frustrated with normal space flight of several minutes to the station every time.

Of course, a further solution would be to drop players closer to stations but at an angle so the station is not visible, as if you braked past it, as any sensible person would do not to risk crashing into it. This would ensure the geometry is fully loaded when you maneuver it into view. They probably decided against this because they really like the magnificent stations popping into view, creating a sense of velocity and scale. Otherwise it could feel a lot emptier.
 
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The transitions from SC into planetary orbit (Horizons) will have to be pretty special, because dropping out of SC (and the length of time it takes) is definitely immersion breaking and annoying at times. It's interesting that we haven't seen this yet in any of the sneak peaks. One would also think that seamless transitions would have been possible from the outset, and hopefully FD will improve SC transitions over time, or at least try. :)
 
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