Please DONT have automatic vertical thruster compensation for gravity.

[Steve72]

But that requires the ships to have aerodynamic surfaces (they don't, they are bricks) and there to be an atmosphere (there isn't, at least yet)

Even a brick pitch up creating an angleof forward thrust would counter gravity. The higher the gravity, the higher the angle or an increase in thrust.

If you want to maually control vertical thrust how will this be achieved with a digital input of on or off? Your multiple million conda will turn into flappy birds. Hmm does that breach copyright?

You need some form of assistance. Intrigued by fa off.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Anyone who has played the recent Space Engineers update (with planets added) knows what i am talking about.
There, if you have inertial dampeners on (which essentially causes the ships thrusters to automatically slow you down to a standstill in space, if no throttle imput is given), also counteracts gravity.. So you can just hover idle over the surface without ANY hands on the keyboard or mouse, ever.

This affects the flight model greatly and makes it feel extremely safe and un-dynamic and "un-fun" to fly near planetary surfaces, as you never feel any effect of gravity at all.
Please please please Frontier, dont make this same mistake with Horizons.
DONT have the vertical thrusters automatically counteract gravity. Let us do it ourselves, it adds SO MUCH dynamic feel to the flight model, to actually feel the gravity of the world you are flying on.

Please do not resort to the "easy" way of just having the thrusters automatically provide exact counter-thrust so we auto-hover in place.
It would make it feel no different to fly on planets than to fly in space, it would feel like 0g. Which isnt what you want when you zoom down to a planet.
You wanna FEEL the power of the gravity! The same way you can currenly sometimes feel the rotation and microgravity inside space stations (if you are careless you will notice how your ship almost gets "pulled" towards the outer spinning walls, i LOVE that).

Some people will say "FA off will solve that", but this isnt really enough. If so, i hope Frontier at least includes a seperate option JUST For the vertical thrusters in gravity.
I dont want to fly with FA off, but i also dont want it to be so easy-mode that gravity has no impact on my ship.

TLDR
At the very least i am hoping for a "Gravity-compensation On/Off" toggle, much like the "Rotational Correction On/Off" toggle in the ship menu.
Thank you.

You are flying a spaceship with fly-by-wire controls in a video game with FTL travel. You want realistic? Go take a Physics or Engineering class. Then you can have all the realism you want. The rest of us would simply like to enjoy a spaceship game. There is nothing wrong with having my ship auto-compensate for gravity in order to allow me to hover in place. Have you ever considered that I may want to hover in place at some point while near the surface of a planet? The function of the thrusters near a planet surface is to provide lift. No reason to constantly hold up-thruster on my HOTAS.

 

[Skizomeuh]

All I want is to feel the attraction force enough to:
- get the power of the stellar body I'm on
- get the sense of (light or heavy) weight of my ship
- get some skills involved for attraction to be fun for the critical phases (entry, landing, taking off), and be sensibly different between ships
- get attraction a little out of the way in situations that could be counterproductive to the fun (eg: constant manual lift up to compensate attraction should not be a hassle at high speeds)

How FDEV is planning to make this happen under the hood, be it physically accurate or not, is irrelevant as long as the result is enjoyable.

 

[Ziljan]

At first I didn't really have an opinion on this issue. But now that I think about it, the need for gavity compensation should probably depend on the amount of gravity and the size of the ship. Light ships in low gravity should be able to just hover with out issue. But large ships should burn extra fuel and maybe even require pilot input to stay aloft in normal to high gravity environments.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

OP: please stop having bad ideas. FA off and you have it.

 

[Mephane]

At first I didn't really have an opinion on this issue. But now that I think about it, the need for gavity compensation should probably depend on the amount of gravity and the size of the ship. Light ships in low gravity should be able to just hover with out issue. But large ships should burn extra fuel and maybe even require pilot input to stay aloft in normal to high gravity environments.

Well, all the pilot input could do is fire the thrusters. Either the thrusters are strong enough to hover, or they aren't. So pilot input is irrelevant for whether the ship can hover or not. It just adds extra tedium for the player.

Plus, again, keep in mind digital controls, not just analog ones like HOTAS. With mouse+keyboard, thrust up is a binary 100%/0% decision, if I need, say, 75%, I would need to hold and release the key in succession - all the time while on a planet. Couldn't even stop it for a moment to drink a bit, it'd require 100% attention at all times, and would be required to land first for any interruption. (Have fun coming back to your ship that has crashed down while you quickly answered the door - or the person at the door already gone by the time you have landed.)

 

[Kicks]

Well, all the pilot input could do is fire the thrusters. Either the thrusters are strong enough to hover, or they aren't. So pilot input is irrelevant for whether the ship can hover or not. It just adds extra tedium for the player.

Plus, again, keep in mind digital controls, not just analog ones like HOTAS. With mouse+keyboard, thrust up is a binary 100%/0% decision, if I need, say, 75%, I would need to hold and release the key in succession - all the time while on a planet. Couldn't even stop it for a moment to drink a bit, it'd require 100% attention at all times, and would be required to land first for any interruption. (Have fun coming back to your ship that has crashed down while you quickly answered the door - or the person at the door already gone by the time you have landed.)

Are we discussing a game-play mechanic based around your ability to answer the door and not crash? I know Elite has some down-time moments, but landing on a planet surely shouldn't be one of them?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'm still of the opinion that we all need to wait until after the beta has been released, in order to make an informed opinion of the flight model over a planet surface.

But that's just, like, my opinion, mang.

 

[lysan]

Devs have already stated ships will not have full auto compensation. I would expect partial compensation with FA-ON, hopefully fully manual with FA-OFF.

Auto hover should not be something you get by default. Maybe you need to initiate it when you are over the spot you need to hover above. Like in Arma 3 heli mode

 

[SpitTheDog]

Anyone noticed that our ships aren't actually planes? They won't fly due to aerodynamics, only due to the power of our thrusters.

If you want to be realistic, do you think that the manufacturer that insisted the pilot remember to keep thrusting upwards in order to avoid dying will stay in business?

Even today, drones and the first commercial jetpacks, both of which rely on upwards thrust default to a 'hover' mode in the absence of other instructions.

Cue "I hate ED because I die if I have to scratch my 'posterior' while flying around the planet."

 

[torc]

My opinion? i really like to fly in FA Off and for what is worth, i think even in space FA On should be used just for short periods (consuming SYS pipes) and ''force'' a little bit pilots to understand very well inertial game mechanics.

That said, and i know this is impossible to implement at this stage, in FA On in planets you should have more advantages like a sort of fly by wire in our modern jet fighters, but gravity and in future updates winds should affect in some way your flight capabilities. With FA Off you could make maneuvers more tigh and exclusive, but overally just for short periods or you'll find yourself with your metallic butt on the ground.

My little 2 cents

 

[DragoonKnight]

Acceleration due to gravity is the same regardless of ship mass. Without an atmosphere, the size and shape of your ship does not matter. The only thing you will be able to feel is your ship's thrust to mass ratio.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Auto hover should not be something you get by default. Maybe you need to initiate it when you are over the spot you need to hover above. Like in Arma 3 heli mode

The simplest way to implement auto hover is to just kill your forward thrust when you are over the spot you want to hover at. You should still have lift from your up thrusters.

For those who insist on "feeling the power of gravity" and other such nonsense, I have a guide.
1. Approach the surface of a planet.
2. Go to your modules menu
3. Select your thrusters
4. Turn them off
5. Enjoy feeling the power of gravity

 

[drholliday]

What has FBW got to do with anything? It is purely the lack of mechanical linkages

That depends on the plane. With an aerodynamically stable plane the statement is more or less correct. It's just for passenger comfort and safety. With an aerodynamically unstable plane it's a requirement. They cannot be flown manually. In those planes the computer isn't just preventing the pilot from doing something stupid. It's computing what action has to be taken to get the result the input is demanding.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Some notes:

1) Positive Static Stability (the craft returns to it's original state)
2) Neutral Static Stability (the craft remains in the last state commanded)
3) Negative Static Stability (the craft only maintains stability with constant control inputs)

4) Dust clouds from thrusters.

5) Some ship configurations will not be able to land due to stuff sticking out, or stress on the craft at one point or another in contact with the surface or a structure.

6) None of this matters of Maverick's ego writes checks his body can't cash. The "Elite" who want everything to be "Dangerous" will soon find themselves with the same online player count that World Of Warplanes currently has.

 

[tawittle]

The whole point of flight assist and rotational correction is to make flying easier. if you want flying to be harder, you can simply turn those things off.

Are you saying we should have to constantly compensate for gravity in order to fly at the same altitude? What would be the point of that? To give players carpel tunnel?

If you use upward thrusters, you should go up, if you use downward thrusters you should go down. Of course it makes sense that reducing altitude will be easier than increasing altitude (even with flight assist), but it makes no sense that you should have to constantly be holding down your thrusters to prevent loss of altitude. The ship computer can surely do that for you easily.

 

[Kristov]

Seems I recall someone, either MB or DB don't remember which, saying that large ships won't be able to hover in planetary flight, so I'm kind of failing to see the need for this request, you know?

Right now, we simply don't know what the flight model for planetary flight will be like, we've seen some ships flying around and they were all relatively small, Cobra and Vulture, not any of the big ships at all, and even those small ships weren't hovering, David hit the ground fairly hard on an obviously low gravity planet, if we judge by how that SRV was taking off from any slight bump. Beta may hit next week, we'll find out then for certain, but all evidence to date seems to indicate this is a pointless request.

 

[Silaz]

You want to land and launch your ships like Kerbal Space Program?

This is Elite Dangerous, not Kerbal Space Program.

 

[Oni14128]

It would be nice to see auto hover only engage below a certain speed and height threshold. That way landing becomes managable but we won't have ships turret in in a dogfight or bombarding planets at 20k feet

 

[Im_Lost]

I'd have loved the game with no flight assist anywhere. It would make things far more entertaining, especially at stations

 

[Fire70]

I do enjoy these threads when we all argue over "reality" in a FTL space ship game..