Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Marra Morgan]

" I think that if someone has a bounty above a certain amount (say $5000) then he can't sell his ship, modules, or even re-arm/repair in a civilized sector. He can't dock in stations only outposts, and if his ship is too big.. he's in trouble. BUT.. if he can get to a station that is controlled by pirates then he can.. though the price would probably be higher than normal to get repaired. Maybe even have station personnel who can take care of their bounty for a hefty cut allowing him access back into civilized sectors .

I mean if someone wants to play as a wanted player, lets make it at least partly realistic with actual punishment. Their victims usually are punished by their actions but there is no real punishment for pirates.. oh and to make sure that no "farming" bounties for credits.. the bounties come out of the Wanted player's account. And if they don't have enough.. ships are sold till they do.. but if they are back down to only the starter sidewinder.. they get a reprieve.. as long as they are still using any loaned equipment.. commit a crime and have bought gear and not enough funds for the bounty.. gear gets sold.

Hmm, I think those measures are little bit too harsh, Mouse.

You've seen all those threads lately about folks with bad trigger fingers zapping everything in sight and then wailing about the bounty that lands on them (which, to my total shock, apparently prevents them from playing the game). Those kind of measures really are going to restrict what they can do and give them genuine cause for complaint!

Then there's those who get their bounties from PowerPlay undermining and attacking certain factions for their BGS tinkering - it wouldn't be fair to make them pariahs to the whole galaxy.

I agree with restricting stations and services, but only to minor factions who you're Hostile with. From a gameplay and lore point of view, it makes better sense.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I get that. Im not there to make them happy, I am there to steal their cargo.

If they're not happy, it may not be fun. It's a game - if it's not fun then why would they continue to play in that mode?

 

[Lateralus]

If they're not happy, it may not be fun. It's a game - if it's not fun then why would they continue to play in that mode?

Is it fun when an NPC kills you? Or when you lose or die in any other game?

No game is fun 100% of the time as you have to factor in moments of anger or frustration..

 

[Mouse]

Well yeah... cargo or tickles doesn't quite have the same impact. Where I can I disable a running ships drives and give them a chance.. but that is a lot of faff, and when their drives are powering up there isn't always enough time before they jump.. or the cops turn up and you have to retreat.

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What am I lying about? Confused...

You entire argument the last few pages is a woe is me victim I'm a pvper and people are wanting to take my game away, which is so full of it it is beyond laughable. NO one is wanting to remove PVP entirely from the game, what is being asked is for balance.. a PVE open to balance the PVP one.. You keep blatantly ignoring people's arguments to carry on your charade.

Point is you are afraid.. that if people can select PVE or PVP social at the outset that you loose all the sheep you want to kill.


Your right as a pirate does not mean you have the right to keep people in the dark so that you can have easy prey. So you been very inventive in your "claims" to try and justify your play style..

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They're not there 'under duress', there are 4 different modes on offer at the moment (not including the Mobius group), 2 of which are PvP-free. The worry is that too many modes will get offered and the playerbase ends up being spread too thinly... That said if Frontier buffed traders and bounty hunting sufficiently, I would not be against a dedicated open PvE mode.

Frontier must have good reasons for not including that option though... I wonder what they are?

Maybe you need to recount.. there is only one PVP-free mode and that is solo.. in all other modes PVP is possible.. And your claim that the playerbase will be spread too thinly is a fallacy...

 

[Leto Thule]

If they're not happy, it may not be fun. It's a game - if it's not fun then why would they continue to play in that mode?

You are right, its a game. I dont see the difference between getting blown up by an NPC (they dont let you go after you drop cargo, I do!) and being stopped by another player.

So, after the PVE only mode comes out... do we then do an "empty" mode, where there are no NPC's either?

Losing things is going to happen no matter what, and it should. A game with a 100% win ratio is terribly boring.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Is it fun when an NPC kills you? Or when you lose or die in any other game?

No game is fun 100% of the time as you have to factor in moments of anger or frustration..

In some games, it is necessary to die in order to progress. PS:T springs to mind.

Also, if you have to factor in moments of anger and frustration, the very best players are combat loggers who give hardcore PVPers plenty of both

 

[Leto Thule]

Is it fun when an NPC kills you? Or when you lose or die in any other game?

No game is fun 100% of the time as you have to factor in moments of anger or frustration..

Bagh! Beat me to it.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Is it fun when an NPC kills you? Or when you lose or die in any other game?

No game is fun 100% of the time as you have to factor in moments of anger or frustration..

Dying to the game (NPC) does not affect people as much as dying by the hand of another player.

Sorry you don't understand that. <shrugs> It's called a lack of empathy - or more seriously could be a lack of social imagination - i.e. inability to imagine the emotional impact of your actions on that person. Some of these are signs of a more serious mental condition and I am not joking. People die as a result of these conditions. PM me if you would like to know the exact condition, it would be too upsetting for general reading.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why is this still being debated when FD have repeatedly said it's not changing?

/facepalm.

What else am I supposed to do? Work?

 

[Leto Thule]

What else am I supposed to do? Work?

Amen to that!

 

[Robert Maynard]

You are right, its a game. I dont see the difference between getting blown up by an NPC (they dont let you go after you drop cargo, I do!) and being stopped by another player.

You may not, it seems to make a difference for some though.

So, after the PVE only mode comes out... do we then do an "empty" mode, where there are no NPC's either?

CQC is already NPC free....

Losing things is going to happen no matter what, and it should. A game with a 100% win ratio is terribly boring.

Players manage to lose things - that will continue to happen. How much is lost due to the whims / predation of other players may also become boring to some.

 

[Mouse]

Hmm, I think those measures are little bit too harsh, Mouse.

You've seen all those threads lately about folks with bad trigger fingers zapping everything in sight and then wailing about the bounty that lands on them (which, to my total shock, apparently prevents them from playing the game). Those kind of measures really are going to restrict what they can do and give them genuine cause for complaint!

Then there's those who get their bounties from PowerPlay undermining and attacking certain factions for their BGS tinkering - it wouldn't be fair to make them pariahs to the whole galaxy.

I agree with restricting stations and services, but only to minor factions who you're Hostile with. From a gameplay and lore point of view, it makes better sense.

It is a rough draft.. it can be tweaked to make it more fair.. but if you're a British pirate in the Caribbean.. there will be some ports you can call home, but most of the Spanish Main is going to be hostile to you parking there..

Currently ED is like Skyrim, what you do in one Hold doesn't make it to others.. yet I would hope the communications in ED are such that if you are pirating in Empire space.. most Empire Stations would view you as hostile and not let you land.


And PP wise... I flew into Hudson's Territory last night which is hostile and I have a big "HOSTILE" notice.. that was safer than my home system.. I am not attacked by anyone.. yet in my power's home system I am constantly.. sometimes consecutively (as in am jumped by someone I get away and almost immediately interdicted by someone else, only to get away and have the original npc interdict me. It does not make any sense that I am safer and can land in a hostile system than in my power's own.

 

[Roybe]

Why is this still being debated when FD have repeatedly said it's not changing?

/facepalm.

Not so sure. The thread is moving between 'reward PVP' and 'make a PVE only place'...both of which will never occur. So it is just the same merry-go-round with a different horsie to ride!

 

[Jockey79]

Very much so. But even then you have to strip shields before you can use em, which involves opening fire.

Now that is the bit I now struggle with.

Why can fuel limpets pass through shields and hatch breakers not?
You can aggressively fuel someone against their wishes and those shields are worthless, as are point defence.
Yet the same limpet going to take cargo has to fly past point defence and gets stuck at shields.

That makes no sense.

Is it fun when an NPC kills you? Or when you lose or die in any other game?

No game is fun 100% of the time as you have to factor in moments of anger or frustration..

True, but with NPCs you only have yourself or FD to blame (for making them "too hard").
When it is a person however, that person has the intent to destroy your ship - that is a whole new matter.

 

[Lateralus]

You entire argument the last few pages is a woe is me victim I'm a pvper and people are wanting to take my game away, which is so full of it it is beyond laughable. NO one is wanting to remove PVP entirely from the game, what is being asked is for balance.. a PVE open to balance the PVP one.. You keep blatantly ignoring people's arguments to carry on your charade.

Point is you are afraid.. that if people can select PVE or PVP social at the outset that you loose all the sheep you want to kill.

Your right as a pirate does not mean you have the right to keep people in the dark so that you can have easy prey. So you been very inventive in your "claims" to try and justify your play style..

lol chill out..

Maybe you need to recount.. there is only one PVP-free mode and that is solo.. in all other modes PVP is possible.. And your claim that the playerbase will be spread too thinly is a fallacy...

1# Solo, 2# private group (ok so PvP is possible but unlikley to be forced upon you while playing with your friends, so I count this as PvP free), 3#Open, 4# CQC... like I said, I'm not counting Mobius.

 

[Leto Thule]

Dying to the game (NPC) does not affect people as much as dying by the hand of another player.

Sorry you don't understand that. <shrugs> It's called a lack of empathy - or more seriously could be a lack of social imagination - i.e. inability to imagine the emotional impact of your actions on that person. Some of these are signs of a more serious mental condition and I am not joking. People die as a result of these conditions. PM me if you would like to know the exact condition, it would be too upsetting for general reading.

Ahhhhh da da dat.... stop that. We have been around that bush already.

People like me dont understand why losing spaceship assets (fake) affects people in real life. People like you say that makes us less empathetic. (IRL I am also a volunteer fire/EMS provider. I have saved lives and lost lives. Trust me, I have empathy.)

People like you dont understand why people like me dont take into account the emotional impact on the player. People like me wonders if the inability to separate in-game events from real life suggests much, much more than a lack of empathy.

So if I am crazy and mentally unstable for the way I play the game, sir, so are you.


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Now that is the bit I now struggle with.

Why can fuel limpets pass through shields and hatch breakers not?
You can aggressively fuel someone against their wishes and those shields are worthless, as are point defence.
Yet the same limpet going to take cargo has to fly past point defence and gets stuck at shields.

That makes no sense.

Lol.. thanks for the image of those guys who try to wash your windows in traffic for money... but instead they have gas hoses and try to fuel up your car while you are stuck at a red light... rofl

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I have some question's to ask all the PvP Pirates/Killers...

To pick on the big fat slow trade ships is easy - almost or exactly like bulling the little kid in school for his dinner money or he'll get beaten up.

1. What makes you're play style different from being a bully?
2. If it's a good PvP fight you're after why not fight each other?
3. Why hang out in the starter systems just to kill new players when it will do nothing for your rating or skills?

I ask these questions because I see and hear a lot about both piracy and pvp but it always seems to be the little guy that takes a kicking.

Could it be some pirates/killers are actually cowards? I suspect this may be the case some of the time...

As I've mentioned, I've been waiting to get interdicted for a while now - it's just not happening despite being in a humble Cobra loaded with GOLD - you know, the stuff you pirate types can rob from me!

Maybe I should try this in a T6, I have a feeling within a short time I would be at the insurance screen. Despite all this talk about open being dangerous, piracy being allowed, killers are ok to do their thing and all the other PvP player arguments I have yet to experience it since returning to the so called dangerous mode of play.

 

[Jockey79]

Maybe you need to recount.. there is only one PVP-free mode and that is solo.. in all other modes PVP is possible.. And your claim that the playerbase will be spread too thinly is a fallacy...

1# Solo, 2# private group (ok so PvP is possible but unlikley to be forced upon you while playing with your friends, so I count this as PvP free), 3#Open, 4# CQC... like I said, I'm not counting Mobius.

PvP Allowed;

• CQC (d'uh)
• Open Group
• Private Group (PvP cannot be turned off, so it can and does happen - even in Mobius)

PvE Only;

• Solo

As Majinvash can well attest to, while the rules of Mobius is PvP in Combat Zones Only (after choosing a side).
That does not stop people committing PvP acts anywhere they like. There has been 6(??) incidents of unwanted PvP.

So currently there are 3 PvP areas and 1 PvE.
Not very good for a game showing "Co-op" as a play mode, not actually having a PvE co-op mode.

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Lol.. thanks for the image of those guys who try to wash your windows in traffic for money... but instead they have gas hoses and try to fuel up your car while you are stuck at a red light... rofl

lol, you're welcome

I'm on the old speckled hen later, so expect the ideas to get even more silly as the day moves on

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Ahhhhh da da dat.... stop that. We have been around that bush already.

People like me dont understand why losing spaceship assets (fake) affects people in real life. People like you say that makes us less empathetic. (IRL I am also a volunteer fire/EMS provider. I have saved lives and lost lives. Trust me, I have empathy.)

People like you dont understand why people like me dont take into account the emotional impact on the player. People like me wonders if the inability to separate in-game events from real life suggests much, much more than a lack of empathy.

So if I am crazy and mentally unstable for the way I play the game, sir, so are you.

You may be over compensating.

I'm not calling you mentally unstable. I'm just pointing out that this kind of condition is real, it's not in my head. Conversely, such a person would not understand why another person would actually wipe them out in Game!!! No social imagination! Your actions, whether you understand them or not, could be devastating to the other person.

The only reason people started promoting an Open PvE is Jockey's fault. He started it as a compensation for 2 Mega Threads of people asking for Groups and Solo to be got rid of. I came along after a break and poked a bear by saying Open should be removed, causing players to take responsibility for their actions in whatever group they decided to play in, again as a reaction to the Remove/Nerf Solo/Groups.

So all you are reading here about this fervent Open_PvE push is really a 3 MegaThread reaction to people asking, no demanding, some sort of push for people in to Open.

You know what! None of it is going to happen, because the Modes. Are. Fine. As. Is.

(Someone just needs to tell the newbs where to escape...)

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

And before you post that statement - How are you going to stop them?