Dear Frontier Developments

[Aewarin Jameson]

There is another way of staying consistent

I ninja'd you

 

[Tinman]

I ninja'd you

Yes you did...

The key is to keep it short it seems.

 

[streki]

bah - semantics.

All very frustrating. I'd be happy if they simply called it "Alpha 5" or whatever.

Don't refer to it as "Beta" until you're happy to include the people who have paid for "first round private beta test"

Am I making a mountain out of a molehill ?

Certainly I'm getting twitchy to finally play.

 

[-o-]

There is another way of staying consistent.

Before Beta is released a build is given to the Alpha backers to check for showstopping bugs. Since this build is given to only Alpha backers it is by definition an Alpha build, is it not? If it checks out ok it's relabeled as Beta and given to the Beta backers.

When Beta 2 comes along the first build is then first given to BOTH Alpha AND Beta1 backers. If it checks out it's pushed out to Beta2 backers.

When Gamma comes along it is first given to Alpha, Beta1 and Beta 2 backers and if it checks out it's pushed out to the Gamma folks.

Oh I love these chicken and eggs games!

1. So when Beta1 is released, it is given to the Alphans first (to check for bugs offcourse). As soon as Beta1 is given to the Alphans, it transforms into an Alpha product. Once OK'd, it transforms again into the Beta1.

2. So when Beta2 is released, it is given to both Alpha and Beta1 people.

But wait... that dosn't make sense.

How can the QA of Beta2 be left to the fumblings of Beta1?

Surely, for consistency, Beta2 needs to be given to the Alphans first (to check for bugs offcourse). It gets transformed into a Alpha, and once they have cleared it, it gets transformed into the Beta1 (who fumble around), who then clear it to be transformed into the Beta2.

Quite a simple process, free from confusion and misunderstanding.

 

[Herik]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm trying to see things from both sides. While yes, I am at Alpha level, and I could happily say this is not a problem but people are making it a problem, I can also not forget how I might have reacted if I were still at Founder level.

So, I am going to say this, to any Premium Beta Backers that feel "outraged" or "upset" over this, take it from me, I know how you feel.

Alpha 3.0 is released, station docking .... great says I, I can't wait to try it. And sure, the first time I docked, but after that I could not get that station to load. Day after day after day I sat here watching that spinning ship and seeing posts on the forum from people who not only kept docking, but very quickly got the credits to buy a Cobra MkIII.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed, I was. But I didn't make a fuss* because I knew soon I would be able to get there too. Sure I was missing out, but it wasn't a big deal.

Now you "outraged" Premium Beta Backers. Do you really want to sit there watching a spinning Cobra and not be able to get into the Beta? I don't think so, it isn't fun (trust me). Yes you will surely see someone go on about how great the Beta is, but calm yourself knowing it will be worth it, and I will welcome you when you get there (probably before I do).

You can choose not to get "outraged" etc

*ok, I did make one or two posts about how frustrating it was

Not an Alpha subr; but I like the complete picture....+1

 

[streki]

confused, frustrated, disappointed.

not outraged.

 

[Herik]

Alpha's are going to make sure a build is stable and is not going to kill the internet and cause World War 3 and stuff like that. Shortly after that and FD are happy then the Beta's get to try and kill the internet and start World War 3 and stuff like like that. Alpha's are going to have at tops 2 days prior access unless the Beta build is massively broken at which time they'll be the only ones to have played that particular build.

Beta testing is about stressing a system to breaking point and seeing if it does break. 2000 people aren't going to stress ED to the point it needs to. They're just going to be there for a quick check that everything works as intended before we Beta's coming and make it break as unintended. Thinking on it over night I'm actually glad the Alpha's get to log in to any particular Beta build first as they'll be the initial batch of lab rats. We all know what happens to lab rats right?

Hey Bob_H; Nice point...+2

 

[Herik]

The insurance thing isn't that big a deal in itself (well, unless insurance is expensive in the first place). I think the problem for a lot of us (well, me anyway), is that it's another reward for alpha backing while beta backers have had their patience rewarded with another delay for another round of alpha which seems to be what the premium first round beta was going to be at the time of pledging.

I can see the reasons behind it and I can see it from the alpha testers' point of view (especially those who have had a rocky go of it in alpha), but it still feels like bit of a slap in the face for premium beta pledgers. Of course that's not what's intended, but that's how it feels.

If FD are throwing extra bones out, how about throwing one our way? We've been very patient and no less supportive than the alpha backers who have known exactly where they are regarding their pledges since 12th December 2013.

Whining?...

 

[Herik]

Well guess what, they did, and it still broke.

I think a smooth beta release is just fantasy. It is bound to break even more, as it should, when the masses engage. AFAIK, FD have released no peer-2-peer network product on this scale, and with no experience, this will add to the expected beta network issues.

Its just a matter of managing the member frustrations spawned from broken expectations. Recent decisions are just relocating embers from the penthouse to the fire in the basement. In the end, it all depends on where you are.

In time, all will be fine.

Hmm,...seems your just being negative.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Dear Frontier,

Some people have paid more/less money than me and have had a good whinge. I initially pledged to the Kickstarter Alpha/Premium Beta/Beta/Pre-order and expected to be able to whinge about the process YET SOME PEOPLE are now getting extra whinging rights. This is clearly not fair and NOT WHAT I INITIALLY expected. You are not being 100% clear about when I can whinge and not providing me with the CORRECT reasons to whinge.

Is Elite Dangerous Pay to whinge now?

I expect answers.

 

[Cody]

<chortles> Nice one, ZeeWolf!

 

[-o-]

Hey, this is a hold up. Give me everything in your wallet.

But I have starving children to feed.

Stop whinging.

 

[Herik]

I would absolutely bet that they will, at the appropriate time. A lot of people on this forum seem to be misinterpreting these perks as a thank-you to the alpha backers for their terrible suffering on everyone elses behalf. Frontier do no make this claim: in the newsletter they make explicitly clear that these perks are an inducement to get more alpha sign-ups at a time when the perceived value of alpha would otherwise have dropped to near zero. They have been very honest in this regard.

So if I have ever been sure of anything, I'm sure of this:

(i) When premium beta begins, there will very shortly be an upgrade path offered for standard betas and gammas, in exactly the same way we saw for alpha

(ii) When everyone is aware that premium beta is coming to an end, and the value of premium beta thus drops to near zero, there will be some perks offered to all premium betas to get a few last sign-ups.

The alphas and betas are a good to be sold, and for each of them the window will close, after which they can never be sold again. Sale! Everything must go! There's nothing wrong with this: Frontier want to make money and we all want them to be filthy rich. The problem occurs when the choice of perks compromise the game to some extent. Whether the current alpha inducements do that is the matter under debate.

Interesting points; but I can't see the choice of perks being a game problem here.

 

[Gibbonici]

confused, frustrated, disappointed.

not outraged.

Exactly that.

 

[Herik]

If **** hits pan, then it will take time, sure, but alphas are active enough to see problem at least. Sometimes it is enough for FD to dig and discover problems and solve them.

Good positive observation Pesisk...+1

 

[Herik]

Well, lets try...

It could mean that the life time discount will only be available for the Alpha product. After all, there are no 'Alpha players' after the alpha phase ends.

I am quite fluent in Legalese.

Negative...negative...neg...

 

[Herik]

Yes, I understand that the next bone will exclude all alpha backers. FD expect none of them to even notice or post on a forum about it.

I get the idea that there needs to be limited external before full external testing, but why can't FD have sympathy with the beta people and say:

"Beta is a complex thing. As a result each build needs a limited test first, so we will be steadily sending the builds out to limited numbers of beta testers selected at random."

(for random insert "biased towards those who have submitted the highest number of unique tickets since the last build release" to select what one would assume to be the most thorough and dedicated.

Just because a person paid for alpha does not necessarily make them a better beta tester than a person who has not.

Ah..human beings are flawed?..FD didn't say things perfectly...

 

[Herik]

There was more than a suggestion....there was a definitive statement:
"Participate in the first round private beta test"

Alphas playtest individual sections of the game (combat module, trading module, etc) but when the modules are released as a collective (the beta) £100 should secure first access.....as promised.

If that's not the case, its a little disapointing, but again I ask:

How much longer do we wait after the Alphas get beta ?

Patient...patient...pat...

 

[Herik]

There is another way of staying consistent.

Before Beta is released a build is given to the Alpha backers to check for showstopping bugs. Since this build is given to only Alpha backers it is by definition an Alpha build, is it not? If it checks out ok it's relabeled as Beta and given to the Beta backers.

When Beta 2 comes along the first build is then first given to BOTH Alpha AND Beta1 backers. If it checks out it's pushed out to Beta2 backers.

When Gamma comes along it is first given to Alpha, Beta1 and Beta 2 backers and if it checks out it's pushed out to the Gamma folks. (In practice this will happen anyway since Beta2 will probably be feature-complete and only be relabeled to Gamma when stable enough.)

Release: Everyone gets it at the same time.

Done!



I hardly think the reason for giving Alpha/Beta1/Beta2/Gamma backers the "game" earlier is because "no particular valid reason apart from 'they are 'nice' for giving us so much more money'."

The reason is more to do with scaling up the game to handle more and more players in a multiplayer setting. Perfectly valid and logical reason from a development point of view IMO.

Thanks Tinman; I'm sure you're right.

 

[Bob_H]

You are all (those up in arms and down in legs about this), of course, assuming that Beta is a single 'thing'.

It's not. To think that it is, is just not comprehending what is going to happen within the Beta phases.

It's going to be very many separate builds and fixes and more builds and fixes and feature revamps and even more builds. Alpha testers and Beta 1 testers will be getting into Beta 1 at the same time. It's just that each build will go through the Alpha testers hands first to make sure all is 'as intended' before it's given to the Beta 1 testers to test and break it.

The same routine will be used in Beta 2 phase. Alpha's make sure a build is fit for consumption Beta 1 & 2 testers then try and rip the build to shreds. FD makes changes and fixes, rince and repeat.

Personally I don't disagree with the rage behind the point all you allegedly ripped off people have. Your point is very very wrong though and as such the hatred is misplaced.