You know? If you take the films in order.......then out of the last four films, 3 have ended with the Death Star being blown up...........YAAAAaaawwwwnnnnn...
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And the main mguffin..............the rebellion is looking for Luke and being chased by the Empire.......Generals, politicians, soldiers, pilots of the rebellion are all looking for him.............you would think that some people wanted to talk to him, pass on some news .....and they send Rey and Chewie at the end to see Luke? What do THEY know???.............Chewie has been out smuggling with dead beat dad Solo.........and Rey was NOBODY and had no clue as to what had happened recently......why send THEM to talk to Luke?
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This film gets worse the more you THINK about it....as another poster said, this is not a thinking film.............scoop brain out and leave it at the door....you won't need it and if you try to use it, it don't make any sense.....
You know? If you take the films in order.......then out of the last four films, 3 have ended with the Death Star being blown up...........YAAAAaaawwwwnnnnn...
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And the main mguffin..............the rebellion is looking for Luke and being chased by the Empire.......Generals, politicians, soldiers, pilots of the rebellion are all looking for him.............you would think that some people wanted to talk to him, pass on some news .....and they send Rey and Chewie at the end to see Luke? What do THEY know???.............Chewie has been out smuggling with dead beat dad Solo.........and Rey was NOBODY and had no clue as to what had happened recently......why send THEM to talk to Luke?
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This film gets worse the more you THINK about it....as another poster said, this is not a thinking film.............scoop brain out and leave it at the door....you won't need it and if you try to use it, it don't make any sense.....
you would think that some people wanted to talk to him, pass on some news .....and they send Rey and Chewie at the end to see Luke? What do THEY know???.............Chewie has been out smuggling with dead beat dad Solo.........and Rey was NOBODY and had no clue as to what had happened recently......why send THEM to talk to Luke?
Well, you forgot R2-D2. Makes me think that Luke left instructions that R2-D2 should come to him when event X happens. We still don't know what event X is, because we don't really understand yet why R2 reactivated.
As for why they send Rey and Chewie - R2 needs a ride, and the Falcon's pilot and co-pilot both kind of want to hang out with Luke anyway. I think it's as simple as that.
This film gets worse the more you THINK about it....as another poster said, this is not a thinking film.............scoop brain out and leave it at the door....you won't need it and if you try to use it, it don't make any sense.....
For me the film gets better the more I think about it. I hope people didn't scoop out all their brains before they entered the cinema.
The main story thread that was woven into the Star Wars pattern of ever-repeating plots was that of a Storm Trooper who looked at the evil and injustice around him and decided he must run away from it. He is already considering that he must fight against it. The joke about why he helps Poe Dameron might ring truer than he thought.
What I like is the courage it took for Fin to disobey his orders. It is so easy to conform in those circumstances when everyone you know and trained with are executing their orders. Even though he knows what he is doing is right he carries a guilt with him, a guilt that Kylo Ren finds in his mind and uses to rile him during their fight.
Here's why I hope some of the audience had a few braincells left unscooped. There's something I've always thought odd whenever I read about whistleblowers, the way they are treated as traitors to their country when what they are trying to do is expose an injustice. I really hope that this movie makes a few people question that attitude.
Well..."thinking" about the storm trooper..... He saw the blood of his friend on him........saw his storm trooper friend die......it shook him up real bad......5 mins later, he is blowing away stormtroopers, knowing that they are just stolen children too...........
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Plus....I have watched a few reviews from black guys in the USA......they laugh at the fact that Poe NAMES Finn.........just like Kunta Kinte in "Roots" was named Toby by his "master".......and of course he could not be heroic......he was chasing around after the Superior white woman, constantly saying they cant fight the empire.......he was a coward and wanted to run away half way through the film....and oh, he was a Janitor.........he was basically a Jar Jar character, comic relief sidekick........not the Black hero we were looking for.....he should have a separate arc of freeing the slaves...sorry, storm troopers......now THAT would have been a good use of him......
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Go to 24 mins........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23IcvTasvLo
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Interesting point of view........
That is a fair point, and that people walk away with that parallel in mind is unfortunate. However, I think "Poe as Finn's master" ends there. Their dynamic is not even remotely like that.
Also I really don't see Finn as inferior to Rey as you paint him. And he is clearly heroic in the same vein as Han Solo is heroic - when it counts. I honestly doubt you really want to limit people of colour to the role of the self-sacrificing chump, reserving the role of the realist weighing his best option of survival for smart whitey? As for him being a bumbling sidekick á la Jar Jar, you must have seen a different movie than I did. Finn was one of two protagonists, and his moment of choice to embark on a hero's journey is even more meaningful than Luke's or Rey's. Finn is clearly intended to be the spiritual heir of Han Solo, and nobody in their right mind complains Han Solo was not heroic enough. That sort of thinking makes you edit a movie so that Greedo shoots first.
I agree that he did not show a lot of loyalty to his stormtrooper comrades. But is that a bad thing? They are not just pressed into service, they are also the product of their upbringing, a decade of drinking the kool aid. That they essentially are slaves I'll grant you, but they wouldn't be grateful for attempts to free them. They are convinced they are doing the right thing, for a worthy cause. I really doubt you can just walk in and "free them". They would shoot you. Shooting them first might be Finn's only option, especially if you're not allowing him to run away because that wouldn't be heroic enough. Give the guy a break!
As to the youtube link: It's really not my place to tell Mr. Tariq Nasheed that his views of heroes in action movies is wrong, but - the thing that action heroes have to be "stoic, brave, dominant, masculine, fearless"... is that all there is in movies? Can't a hero be scared? Why does he immediately leap to the conclusion that this sweating man of color with an agitated expression looks like a scared slave? This appears to be an insult to Mr. Nasheed, and I don't understand why. If we accept the analogy that Finn is a slave on the run (not my choice, I maintain he's more like a Wehrmacht defector, but I am German, so everybody draws from their own history I guess,) what exactly is wrong or unheroic about it? Really puzzles me.
I haven't watched the whole thing, but it seems to me that there is some underlying insecurity that results in a great need for machismo. Here is a hero that has to share the limelight in the movie with a white woman. Not being superior to a woman apparently translates into being inferior to a white person. I really have a hard time not seeing the need for a dominant, masculine man of color as some sort of veiled misogyny, but then again, it is really not my place to judge, I'm as white as they come and I am far from the dominant and masculine male ideal.
I would loved it if Finn was a proper Hero...like Lando, skilled pilot and leader of a large community and business leader...... or even Han as you say.....but, Finn needs the white guy to fly the ship so they can escape, he needs the white old man to save him from the storm trooper beating and he needs the white girl to save him from Ren at the end......hell, Rey even beat him up with her stick when they first met.....little girl beats up a trained storm trooper......and on top of THAT....BB-8 even kicks his ass with a Tazer........as that reviewer said, if he wanted to see "Brothers" getting beaten and tazed, he would watch some Chicago police videos......
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Check out this cover of Entertainment Weekly, the USAs premier TV/Entertainment magazine....can you see the reviewers point> EVERYONE looks heroic, stoic, brave....except one....can you see which one? (This has not been photoshoped)
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Thanks for pointing out the Tariq Nasheed video to me. I wasn't too keen on him picking on one of our British actors, John Boyega, saying that they picked him because he was ugly. I would think the reason they cast him is because they saw him in "Attack the Block". He was doing a lot of running around looking scared and puffing and panting before running someplace else, but then so were a lot of other people in the movie. There were a lot of big scary things to run away from. And here's the thing.. looking scared is a big and important part of an adventure movie. However great are the special effects in a movie if you don't have the actors who are capable of giving the reaction shots to sell the moment then it just looks like cheap CGI and puppetry instead.
You could have a big black macho character like Tariq Nasheed wants, towering over everyone else, who can squish Tie Fighters with his bare hands and gets the girl.. although knowing the Star Wars penchant for picking their heroes and villains from the same family I don't know if that's wise.. even if she is only his half-sister. A movie with a macho hero is more like a Steven Seagal one than Star Wars.
It didn't enter my head that Poe Dameron was naming Finn like a master names his slave. I wasn't paying much attention to it, but it seemed to be more of a friendly thing to do than some sort of power trip. The next time I watch I'll check to see if Poe asks Finn if he's okay with calling him this name. I do believe it's more of a fighter pilot liking snappy handles thing than a white guy dominating a black guy thing.
You are right in saying that he's aware that the Stormtroopers he's killing is just like him. It could be the reason why he's carrying so much guilt, and why he wants to run rather than fight.
I was huge fan of the original films, I was consumed by it as a boy, had loads of the figures and vehicles and bases etc, I also spent a few years playing SWG online which was fantastic (wish it would come back).
I am well aware that I would be hard to please when it comes to new star wars films, I hated the prequels with a passion.
I didnt hate this film, I enjoyed the experience of watching it, it was a feast for the eyes and ears, but I cant help feeling a little ripped off by the story itself.
I feel like the writer just took the easy option of re-writing episode IV, but a slightly poorer version.
I felt like he spent the whole film trying to convince me that it was star wars, continually throwing things at me that I would recognise (the worst of these was when finn leant on the dejarik board in the falcon!).
I cant get my head around the fact that the girl learns how to use the force so quickly when Luke had to spend all that time training the basics with Yoda on Dagobah, when she used the mind trick on the trooper the entire scene was comedic.
Finn using the lightsaber was ridiculous, turning it on and holding it is fair enough for anyone, but using against a trained Jedi in combat, nope, he would more than likely cut one of his own limbs off than anything else.
All in all, I think this is another film that I should of waited for to come out on DVD.
It's not a bad film in itself, but its nothing new, I feel like those of us that paid to see the original way back should of get 50% off
Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
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Film opens with a Star Destroyer chasing down the rebels as the Empire are after some important information that the Rebels possess.
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Darth Vader, a sinister and powerful dark lord who wears black robes and a helmet, and an invading force of storm troopers, capture the rebels, but too late, the Rebels have already put the data in to a droid which is now lost on a desert planet. The Empire now want to track down this droid.
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The droid comes in to the possession of a desert dwelling kid, a force sensitive orphan, but it is not long before the Empire catch up with them and it is time to run away from the desert planet…..luckily they stumble across Han Solo and Chewbacca (Smugglers) and the Millennium Falcon. He agrees to help them get the information to the Rebellion (A small ragtag group with few ships and lead by Princess Leia).
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We are then shown the Empires new super weapon. A planet like Space Station that is basically a big space gun that can destroy planets, we see an example of this destructive power. And the rebels know they have to take out this massive threat. They discover that the Death Star has a fundamental weakness. If they can get some small one man fighters in to the base, they can take out the Death Star with some well placed shots that they can access if they fly down a trench in X-Wings.
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It is a race against time as the Death Star has found out the location of the Rebel base and is moving in for the kill. Leia and C-3PO gather around a tactical display and watch the battle unfold. Luckily for us though, the rebels manage to destroy the death star, with only seconds to spare………
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Sound familiar? lol
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I am not falling for it. This is JJ Abrams way of working. He did the same to Star Trek….he trashes the history to do something “new” and then proceeds to just copy what came before. The Wrath of Kahn being a laughable example. What was once a HIGHLY emotional scene with Spock dying, is now a throw away scene with Kirk dead, for two minutes……in the new Wrath, Spock gets to shout the iconic “KAAAAAHHHNNN”…….when before it was Kirk……just silly and lazy…...they have done the same to Star Wars. Trashed the history so that the Empire is super powerful and the rebels are small and weak and swapped a few names around…….We left Jedi and Han Solo was a General, but JJ threw it away as they wanted to start again, so he is a smuggler, again……..same story told, again……
I saw the film on Saturday - again no Elite trailer - and while I liked the look of the film there is a major problem with it which destroyed my immersion in the story very rapidly. There were good points in the film - the new characters Rey and Finn I thought had a lot of potential and visually it is very good, but oh dear what have they done with the integrity of the Star Wars Universe.
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I couldn't understand what they were doing with it until I got home and looked up the whole Star Wars saga online and then found the cause of the problem. Disney. They have utterly desecrated the established Star Wars storylines which have been in existence and an official part of the Star Wars saga for over 20 years. As a result, this new film just doesn't fit in the Star Wars Universe, and Disney's attempts to "justify" this are quite frankly nonsensical.
.
The Star Wars saga was not just the films that were released. Oh no, not by a mile. There has been an enormous amount of writing, novels and reference works which form part of a huge volume of information known as the Star Wars Expanded Universe. George Lucas himself was quoted as saying that there would be no further films made that would be set after Return of the Jedi but that the story would continue in print. It did too, and thrived in this medium, generating a whole new following and interest. It was this huge and unexpected interest in a trilogy of books that were meant to become the sequels to Jedi that is thought to have encouraged George Lucas to make the prequels.
.
This trilogy of novels are known as the Thrawn trilogy, comprising the books Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command. These were very popular, selling over 15 million copies, and numerous further novels were written and approved by George Lucas as the official continuation of the story. These were written over 20 years ago, and have been the established official story. They introduced new characters who became well known in the novels and computer games, some even had toys made of them. In total over 100 official novels have been written and approved as stories that continue after Jedi, continuing on for several generations of characters. Many other book were written to fill in the gaps between the films and even earlier in the Star Wars timeline, (making upward of 150 in all) and this was still happening right up until the moment Disney bought Star Wars.
.
In the Summer of 2014 when they acquired the rights, Disney issued a bizarre declaration that from that point onwards the only parts of the entire Star Wars saga that they would recognize was the very small amount of it that had featured in the films. All the rest of it, the many novels, read by millions, the characters and stories from the official games and everything else would only "exist" in a bizarre kind of "parallel Star Wars Universe" that they were declaring to be a separate franchise that they were calling "Star Wars Legends". But all this writing was no longer recognized in their new "Disney Star Wars".
"What of all these long established characters though?" They couldn't just be deemed to have never happened. Disney then made a quite ridiculous statement that they were creating a "new continuity" which would only draw on the previous films and that none of the other material would be considered canon any longer. After 20 years? 100+ novels? Well that simply does not wash. For starters, continuity either exists or it doesn't. It can't be made anew as Disney would have everyone believe. The concept of a "new continuity" is simply an Oxymoron, and utterly nonsensical. It simply doesn't hold any water, and unfortunately neither does any film or story they make which relies on this flimsy justification for failing to relate to the existing long-established Star Wars universe. If they think they have eradicated the Expanded Star Wars Universe with this corporate boardroom "nonsensepeak" they are very much mistaken. It is not the previous 20 years plus of stories and characters that have been invalidated by them - it is their new film(s) which can at best now be described as a "Disneyfied storyline set in a sort of Star Wars Universe which isn't".
.
In The Force Awakens there is a major plot line which simply does not and cannot be part of the proper Star Wars saga, and that is the rather major issue of Leia and Han's children. I will briefly outline it as a spoiler, so those who want to ignore what has gone before can do so, and still "believe" in the new films.
.
The Thrawn trilogy which has been widely accepted as the intended sequels to Jedi centres around the rise of an Imperial Grand Admiral (Thrawn) and his attempts to abduct Han and Leia's unborn children. They are called Jaina and Jacen. In later stories they have another son called Anakin. (Luke Skywalker and another major character called Mara Jade eventually have a son called Ben but not the Solo's). Subsequent books explore their lives, and there is even a series of books (aimed at younger readers) just about the adventures of Jaina and Jacen. Very small elements of their ultimate fates are alluded to in The Force Awakens, but they as characters appear to have been totally eradicated from the story. They are in fact a major part of the proper Star Wars storyline.
There is no Ben Solo. Therefore the character of Kylo-Ren has no place in the story - because he doesn't exist in the Star Wars Universe. With Kylo-Ren effectively a white elephant, the whole film loses its credibility as a Star Wars film. If they hadn't chosen to make this reference to his heritage and made him an independent character it wouldn't have mattered - the film could have been made without this link - but instead Disney decided to try and trash the entire extended series of stories, read and enjoyed by millions. As I said earlier this isn't going to be the case - the extended universe stories are too long established to be disregarded. The only thing that cannot work now, and doesn't work now are the Disney so-called Star Wars films - which have no integrity in their plot lines. They can only be believable once all references to the original Star Wars films are lost, but I fear irreparable damage is now done to Star Wars in its entirety.
I wish they had produced the Thrawn Trilogy shortly after the original Star Wars
(Don't click if you want to read the Thrawn Trilogy, which you totally should if you were a Star Wars fan)
And if it was only for the
Sun Hammer, now THIS is what I call a SUPERWEAPON
Also : I hope they go with the Darth Jar Jar Fan-theory, this would be quite something.
Now for the inescapable rant :
Well, most stuff was already mentioned here, but come on, ANOTHER Death Star ( or better, planet thingy) ? Really ? Sucking up Stars ? And then, after it was inescapably destroyed AGAIN, the sucked up matter was enough to reignite ? A Sun the Size of a planet ? Aaaaaargh, it made my brain hurt so much
I saw the film on Saturday - again no Elite trailer - and while I liked the look of the film there is a major problem with it which destroyed my immersion in the story very rapidly. There were good points in the film - the new characters Rey and Finn I thought had a lot of potential and visually it is very good, but oh dear what have they done with the integrity of the Star Wars Universe.
.
I couldn't understand what they were doing with it until I got home and looked up the whole Star Wars saga online and then found the cause of the problem. Disney. They have utterly desecrated the established Star Wars storylines which have been in existence and an official part of the Star Wars saga for over 20 years. As a result, this new film just doesn't fit in the Star Wars Universe, and Disney's attempts to "justify" this are quite frankly nonsensical.
.
The Star Wars saga was not just the films that were released. Oh no, not by a mile. There has been an enormous amount of writing, novels and reference works which form part of a huge volume of information known as the Star Wars Expanded Universe. George Lucas himself was quoted as saying that there would be no further films made that would be set after Return of the Jedi but that the story would continue in print. It did too, and thrived in this medium, generating a whole new following and interest. It was this huge and unexpected interest in a trilogy of books that were meant to become the sequels to Jedi that is thought to have encouraged George Lucas to make the prequels.
.
This trilogy of novels are known as the Thrawn trilogy, comprising the books Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command. These were very popular, selling over 15 million copies, and numerous further novels were written and approved by George Lucas as the official continuation of the story. These were written over 20 years ago, and have been the established official story. They introduced new characters who became well known in the novels and computer games, some even had toys made of them. In total over 100 official novels have been written and approved as stories that continue after Jedi, continuing on for several generations of characters. Many other book were written to fill in the gaps between the films and even earlier in the Star Wars timeline, (making upward of 150 in all) and this was still happening right up until the moment Disney bought Star Wars.
.
In the Summer of 2014 when they acquired the rights, Disney issued a bizarre declaration that from that point onwards the only parts of the entire Star Wars saga that they would recognize was the very small amount of it that had featured in the films. All the rest of it, the many novels, read by millions, the characters and stories from the official games and everything else would only "exist" in a bizarre kind of "parallel Star Wars Universe" that they were declaring to be a separate franchise that they were calling "Star Wars Legends". But all this writing was no longer recognized in their new "Disney Star Wars".
"What of all these long established characters though?" They couldn't just be deemed to have never happened. Disney then made a quite ridiculous statement that they were creating a "new continuity" which would only draw on the previous films and that none of the other material would be considered canon any longer. After 20 years? 100+ novels? Well that simply does not wash. For starters, continuity either exists or it doesn't. It can't be made anew as Disney would have everyone believe. The concept of a "new continuity" is simply an Oxymoron, and utterly nonsensical. It simply doesn't hold any water, and unfortunately neither does any film or story they make which relies on this flimsy justification for failing to relate to the existing long-established Star Wars universe. If they think they have eradicated the Expanded Star Wars Universe with this corporate boardroom "nonsensepeak" they are very much mistaken. It is not the previous 20 years plus of stories and characters that have been invalidated by them - it is their new film(s) which can at best now be described as a "Disneyfied storyline set in a sort of Star Wars Universe which isn't".
.
In The Force Awakens there is a major plot line which simply does not and cannot be part of the proper Star Wars saga, and that is the rather major issue of Leia and Han's children. I will briefly outline it as a spoiler, so those who want to ignore what has gone before can do so, and still "believe" in the new films.
.
The Thrawn trilogy which has been widely accepted as the intended sequels to Jedi centres around the rise of an Imperial Grand Admiral (Thrawn) and his attempts to abduct Han and Leia's unborn children. They are called Jaina and Jacen. In later stories they have another son called Anakin. (Luke Skywalker and another major character called Mara Jade eventually have a son called Ben but not the Solo's). Subsequent books explore their lives, and there is even a series of books (aimed at younger readers) just about the adventures of Jaina and Jacen. Very small elements of their ultimate fates are alluded to in The Force Awakens, but they as characters appear to have been totally eradicated from the story. They are in fact a major part of the proper Star Wars storyline.
There is no Ben Solo. Therefore the character of Kylo-Ren has no place in the story - because he doesn't exist in the Star Wars Universe. With Kylo-Ren effectively a white elephant, the whole film loses its credibility as a Star Wars film. If they hadn't chosen to make this reference to his heritage and made him an independent character it wouldn't have mattered - the film could have been made without this link - but instead Disney decided to try and trash the entire extended series of stories, read and enjoyed by millions. As I said earlier this isn't going to be the case - the extended universe stories are too long established to be disregarded. The only thing that cannot work now, and doesn't work now are the Disney so-called Star Wars films - which have no integrity in their plot lines. They can only be believable once all references to the original Star Wars films are lost, but I fear irreparable damage is now done to Star Wars in its entirety.
