Quit backing and seek a refund?

[Riandor]

Spoiled children are usually spoiled. Don't really think that's applicable to backers below the alpha level. I await to be informed in which way we've been spoiled.

I was referring to behaviour types, not that you were or weren't spoiled in anyway here in Elite.

You could kinda sum it up with "Why is the person spending £X more than me getting more than me, waaah".

Not aimed at anyone just saying some really are going over the top with this IMVHO!

 

[warbaby2]

Of course you are right with regards to that War, problem is - as I pointed out earlier, a reply to a thread asking for carrots in the game seems to get an answer quick enough but some of the more important issues don't get answered or addressed by FD

I never denied that the communication on FDs side has become rather lacking over the last couple of weeks... especially outside of the closed forums. Then again, most of the info we get there is (game) technical in nature.

 

[KING5TON]

Of course you are right with regards to that War, problem is - as I pointed out earlier, a reply to a thread asking for carrots in the game seems to get an answer quick enough but some of the more important issues don't get answered or addressed by FD

In defense of the FD members that do post on the forums they probably don't have the answers. Most game related things can be addressed by the people that are actually making the game hence why things like carrots in the game can be answered. Policy decisions such as the new Alpha exclusivity period come from up top and I don't remember DB or any of the management staff ever posting on the forums ever (I'd be surprised if DB has looked at the forums at all, those questions he answers in the dev videos were probably handed to him by someone else, Prove me wrong though please ).

If a customer asked me about the release strategy for the software the company I work for make I wouldn't have a clue. To be honest though I'd ask management and get back to them but I like to provide a good service

p.s. I did get Michael to respond about the Beta delay back in January and about my opinion that the delay was poorly communicated and that FD should state it clearly rather than obtusely. I was told it had been clearly communicated

 

[Cody]

Is this thread still rumbling on? Crikey!

I'd be surprised if DB has looked at the forums at all, those questions he answers in the dev videos were probably handed to him by someone else, Prove me wrong though please...

Apparently, DB was about only a couple of days ago.

 

[KING5TON]

Is this thread still rumbling on? Crikey!
Apparently, DB was about only a couple of days ago.

Then I'm surprised I did ask for it.
Wait, was this a confirmed sighting or are we in bigfoot territory now?

 

[Rog]

I noticed... problem is, a thread like this isn't as effective when you got stuff like this on the same page with it.

I am not responsible for someone else using the term 'pay2win', even if *I'm* not currently too bothered by the 50% insurance thing (don't know enough about the impact, though it's hardly balancing is it?), others are and it's a legitimate criticism. Had a look at the SC forum, and the first thing discussed over there after the newsletter came out was p2w.

The first comment there:

So they added lifetime 50% discount on ship insurance for alpha backers. Thats a bit too much into pay 2 win territory for my liking. I was hoping that at least one of the two space sims would stay clear of that.

______________

You could kinda sum it up with "Why is the person spending £X more than me getting more than me, waaah".

Not aimed at anyone just saying some really are going over the top with this IMVHO!

No one is complaining out of jealousy, so that's rather disingenuous. The 'waaah' isn't helpful either.

Instead people are peed off because they are not getting what they paid for, and expected to like it.

Can you see the difference?

 

[Cody]

... are we in bigfoot territory now?

No, bigfoot is in the socks thread.

 

[warbaby2]

No one is complaining out of jealousy, so that's rather disingenuous.

Some comments made me not so sure about that... not from people on this current discussion, though.

Of course can no one blame you for the wording of threads other people made, but they are still there... and it's threads like this that make people inside companies to whom the forums in question belong, stay clear of said forums and not comment on anything, since they can only loose in discussions like this.

 

[Riandor]

No one is complaining out of jealousy, so that's rather disingenuous. The 'waaah' isn't helpful either.

Instead people are peed off because they are not getting what they paid for, and expected to like it.

Can you see the difference?

It can come across like that from some people.

And honestly, people ARE getting what they paid for, Alphas are just getting it a fraction earlier. I seriously fail to see where it says anywhere that Beta1 backers are NOT getting what they paid for. :S

 

[xyphic]

And honestly, people ARE getting what they paid for, Alphas are just getting it a fraction earlier. I seriously fail to see where it says anywhere that Beta1 backers are NOT getting what they paid for. :S

Kickstarter backers technically haven't actually bought anything. As you say, the reward for the beta tiers is stated as "participate in the [...] beta test" and unless FD skip one of the tests or explicitly exclude people from them, they will fulfil that reward, regardless of whether certain groups are allowed to participate earlier.

That's not really the issue here. The issue is that FD weren't transparent about the process. It may be that this has only just occurred to them, but in that case I think it would have been wise to consult with the alphas in the alpha forum (or at the very least the DDF). This reaction could and should have been anticipated, and I don't think anyone in the alpha group would have felt hard done by if everyone were to gain access at the same time. In fact, that's what I as an alpha tested assumed, and I'm sure most of the rest did too. Now having said that, I can see benefits in giving access to the alpha testers first (to get the worst of the bugs identified before releasing to a wider audience) but that should have been part of the plan all along.

Once again this is borne of poor communication, and as long as FD deny that they aren't communicating well (when a lot of the evidence shows otherwise) then this sort of thread will continue to be common. It might be a case of throwing toys out of the pram or simply venting frustration, but if FD were more careful (or at least transparent) in their choices there wouldn't be anything to be upset about.

 

[CMDR Texas Stu]

Just upgrade. You know you want to. Why else would you have included that as an option in your poll?

 

[Michael Brookes]

The decision to provide beta builds to the alpha testers first is purely a dev one to give the build a quick run through before it goes out to the wider group. There'll be more details soon, but beta covers a few phases, the early stages can only be accessed by the premium beta backers and normal beta covers the later phases.

Michael

 

[Memnoch]

Thanks for the clarification Michael. Do you have an idea of how long this Alpha access period to Beta is likely to be before Premium Beta users get access?

 

[Oss133]

The decision to provide beta builds to the alpha testers first is purely a dev one to give the build a quick run through before it goes out to the wider group. There'll be more details soon, but beta covers a few phases, the early stages can only be accessed by the premium beta backers and normal beta covers the later phases.

Michael

So this is for the devs benefit? This totally is total favouritism! I demand recompense! Pistols at dawn, Sir! Have at you!

 

[Michael Brookes]

Thanks for the clarification Michael. Do you have an idea of how long this Alpha access period to Beta is likely to be before Premium Beta users get access?

It would depend on how the build fared in testing, but as short as possible, assuming all went well a question of hours maybe. Until the process is in place it's difficult to say exactly.

Michael

 

[Gibbonici]

The decision to provide beta builds to the alpha testers first is purely a dev one to give the build a quick run through before it goes out to the wider group. There'll be more details soon, but beta covers a few phases, the early stages can only be accessed by the premium beta backers and normal beta covers the later phases.

Michael

Thanks for that. Any idea how soon until the further details will come out? Betas have been in the dark since pledges closed and we got thrown a curveball this week. I think it would settle a lot of tempers if we could get this stuff cleared up as soon as possible.

Again, thanks for the clarification, it's appreciated.

 

[Yaffle]

Thanks for the clarification.

If I may offer a small suggestion, to prevent this sort of thing kicking off in the future, maybe someone should explain what's going on properly in the newsletter?

Had the section of the newsletter been framed like this:

The handover process from alpha to beta isn't a clean dividing line but one where very build needs a sub-population to test it first, and for reasons of expediency it's best to use the sub-populations we already have. So those who backed at alpha level will receive any new build first, which may be for a few hours or should it prove troublesome a few days or even weeks.

Much of this angst would have been avoided.

There is a significant perceptual difference between "exclusive access" and "maybe a couple of hours if all goes well". It is a perception, but perceptions are very important when information is so scarce.

FD now need to be braced for accusations from new alpha backers that they paid for exclusive access, and all they received was a couple of hours when they were at work.

 

[Michael Brookes]

Thanks for that. Any idea how soon until the further details will come out? Betas have been in the dark since pledges closed and we got thrown a curveball this week. I think it would settle a lot of tempers if we could get this stuff cleared up as soon as possible.

Again, thanks for the clarification, it's appreciated.

There will be some more details next week, however this is an organic process so we'll change what we need to for the benefit of the game.

Michael

 

[Riandor]

Kickstarter backers technically haven't actually bought anything. As you say, the reward for the beta tiers is stated as "participate in the [...] beta test" and unless FD skip one of the tests or explicitly exclude people from them, they will fulfil that reward, regardless of whether certain groups are allowed to participate earlier.

That's not really the issue here. The issue is that FD weren't transparent about the process. It may be that this has only just occurred to them, but in that case I think it would have been wise to consult with the alphas in the alpha forum (or at the very least the DDF). This reaction could and should have been anticipated, and I don't think anyone in the alpha group would have felt hard done by if everyone were to gain access at the same time. In fact, that's what I as an alpha tested assumed, and I'm sure most of the rest did too. Now having said that, I can see benefits in giving access to the alpha testers first (to get the worst of the bugs identified before releasing to a wider audience) but that should have been part of the plan all along.

Once again this is borne of poor communication, and as long as FD deny that they aren't communicating well (when a lot of the evidence shows otherwise) then this sort of thread will continue to be common. It might be a case of throwing toys out of the pram or simply venting frustration, but if FD were more careful (or at least transparent) in their choices there wouldn't be anything to be upset about.

Agree with this.

And thanks to Michael for coming in here and posting some info. Always appreciated.

 

[Amorelia]

Wait a minute, wait a minute ... if it wasn't for these very same people jumping this so called queue by backing the KS there wouldn't even be a game.

Before Tuesday this week, nobody outside of FD knew there would be any queue-jumpers for Beta.

People were first offered an opportunity to jump the queue this week, as a reason to upgrade.

If the project runs out of cash, e.g. not enough decide to jump the queue, this bru-ha-ha on the part of Beta backers who feel slighted will be a walk in the park compared with how Alpha backers will suddenly feel about things.