How long is the Alpha phase of the Beta phase?

[tooterfish]

So you don't believe FD on this either?

"It'll be a couple of hours 100% guaranteed guys!!" -- Michael Brookes.

I don't remember reading that, and neither do you.

You're just **** stirring at this point, which is pretty disappointing behaviour from a long time forum member of decent standing. Quit the Marvin the Robot impression, take a step back and get some perspective.

 

[baddog]

Just about any game, bust most especially an MMO, requires a Quality Assurance team in order to test new updates, test bugs on in-house servers, and also test live servers behind closed doors.

The QA team would also normally be the ones doing alpha testing - that isn't typically something the general public will have any kind of involvement with.

Whether or not FD have any actual hired QA staff, what they have effectively done with ED is replace a paid QA team with a paying Alpha player base

So you consider people who have paid for beta access to be inferior in some way, merely the general public and unable to test software or report any issues?

 

[Jezzah]

Yep you are inferior, thats it.

you didn't pay enough to get into the super exclusive alpha testing club.

If you did you'd be superior like all of us are.

must be it.

 

[Rog]

"It'll be a couple of hours 100% guaranteed guys!!" -- Michael Brookes.

I don't remember reading that, and neither do you.

You're just **** stirring at this point, which is pretty disappointing behaviour from a long time forum member of decent standing. Quit the Marvin the Robot impression, take a step back and get some perspective.

You don't remember reading that because no one has written that, certainly not me tooter.

If you're going to accuse someone of stirring, it helps to get the facts correct. I was replying to Patrick_68000 who used the phrase 'a few hours', and it's all concerning the information from Michael Brookes earlier today:

As I've previously posted, assuming that there are no showstoppers then it would be a matter of hours, if there's a problem then it will take as long as it takes to fix.

Michael

Here's another quote:

Maybe not, but let's try and calm this down a bit. If there are concerns then I'll try and answer them as I can, let's cut out the battle between the two sides.

Michael

Might be worth reading.

 

[HoshiQaVam]

So you consider people who have paid for beta access to be inferior in some way, merely the general public and unable to test software or report any issues?

As I have paid for Premium Beta myself, it's a little unlikely that that is in any way what I consider.

Someone has to log into that server and make sure it's not broken before testing can begin. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

You don't remember reading that because no one has written that, certainly not me tooter.

If you're going to accuse someone of stirring, it helps to get the facts correct.

Sorry Rog, but you and others really do keep to stir this up. As I have said, I understand you grown tired of waiting. However, that's not excuse to act like that. Others (including me) is guilty as charged with answering same way sometimes, especially when temper gets better of me...but overall, it has been your initiative.

Already from start people said what Michael confirmed later. I will guess he didn't weight in because facts were right - and I got this impression that sometimes FD thinks it's better not to provide commentary unless community is completely off with their versions. So he provided definite answer. But you didn't believe it, so he had to repeat about 4 or 5 times.

Please, stop this. It won't make beta to arrive faster.

 

[tooterfish]

You don't remember reading that because no one has written that, certainly not me tooter.

Your comment implied that you believed Michael had guaranteed the earlier access would only be a few hours (which he certainly hasn't, he said it could be), and that you thought he was lying (which is impossible, because he's made no guarantees).

If I read that wrong I apologise.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So you consider people who have paid for beta access to be inferior in some way, merely the general public and unable to test software or report any issues?

This is not about inferiority. There are two factors here:

#1 Beta is much wider testing than alpha. Show stopper during alpha period is normal thing by any angle. Still, it got of angry and disappointed threads when 3.0 couldn't be tested in any shape or form. Multiply this many many times and you get potential PR disaster on FD hands;

#2 people forget that this is for *every* beta build. That means if next planned build has show stopper, if alphas test it, everyone else will be able to play old build before FD releases new build. Believe me, this one matters, because I won't count so many times have alpha testers said "why ohh why FD release this new update, I got everything working on old one". In this case alpha testers will bear the brunt of such build while premium beta testers will enjoy their gameplay;

 

[Rog]

I'm only posting because I've been accused of 'stirring'.

As I have said, I understand you grown tired of waiting.

Incorrect. I was entirely OK with waiting as long as it needed to get to the beta stages, watching the dev process, vids and all the rest of it is enjoyable. My sig contained the line 'beta comes when alpha is finished' for long enough. People in beta have been waiting patiently all year (beta was pencilled in to start in January), and I was genuinely very pleased when those in alpha got their initial builds on time back in December 2013. I was *not* happy that it was suddenly announced that all beta stages would go to people in alpha first. It was announced as a reason to spend cash and join the alpha, not as a kindly safeguard for the beta masses.

Already from start people said what Michael confirmed later. I will guess he didn't weight in because facts were right - and I got this impression that sometimes FD thinks it's better not to provide commentary unless community is completely off with their versions. So he provided definite answer. But you didn't believe it, so he had to repeat about 4 or 5 times.

People said all kinds of things to justify the announcement, all based on nothing at all, and nearly all of them in alpha who just happened to benefit. After a few days of deafening silence, FD have now said similar. Well I don't know what to say to you if you don't think it strange that this was never floated previously, or announced as such in the newsletter.

If I read that wrong I apologise.

Fair enough, thanks.

 

[ubermick]

Weeeeeell, this is a fine how do you do.

I missed out on the initial Kickstarter pledges, and when I saw that FD had not only met but exceeded their goal, decided to sit and wait. I was somewhat surprised that FD - despite raising more than they initially wanted - are still offering alphas and betas for sale (at eye-watering prices too), but I suppose the market dictates what the market dictates.

One question I have (pardon me, I'm new to the party), is if everyone gets reset to zero when the final version of the game is released? Or are current players (alphas) going to be able to keep the credits/reputation/ships that they've accumulated as a "reward" for their cash injections?

My plan was to sign up for Premium Beta, but frankly after going through this thread, I'm not sure if it's far more common sense to just wait for a final version.

 

[baddog]

As I have paid for Premium Beta myself, it's a little unlikely that that is in any way what I consider.

Someone has to log into that server and make sure it's not broken before testing can begin. It's really as simple as that.

I paid for full access to the premium beta version of the software.

Once the software has reached the premium beta stage, I expect the same access to it as alpha backers.

I expect to be able to log in to the server and find out if it is broken or not myself.

I am quite capable of raising tickets. I do not require updates to be checked by anyone else before I am allowed to use them.

It's really as simple as that.

 

[Cody]

... is if everyone gets reset to zero when the final version of the game is released?

There will be a wipe after the Alpha/Beta stage (as I understand it).

 

[Yaffle]

One question I have (pardon me, I'm new to the party), is if everyone gets reset to zero when the final version of the game is released? Or are current players (alphas) going to be able to keep the credits/reputation/ships that they've accumulated as a "reward" for their cash injections? .

As things stand both beta progress will be wiped for gamma, but gamma progress should not be wiped for the main game.

Of course, force majeure may cause gamma to be wiped.

Edit: Ack, ninja'd by COdy.

 

[Rog]

Weeeeeell, this is a fine how do you do.

I missed out on the initial Kickstarter pledges, and when I saw that FD had not only met but exceeded their goal, decided to sit and wait. I was somewhat surprised that FD - despite raising more than they initially wanted - are still offering alphas and betas for sale (at eye-watering prices too), but I suppose the market dictates what the market dictates.

One question I have (pardon me, I'm new to the party), is if everyone gets reset to zero when the final version of the game is released? Or are current players (alphas) going to be able to keep the credits/reputation/ships that they've accumulated as a "reward" for their cash injections?

My plan was to sign up for Premium Beta, but frankly after going through this thread, I'm not sure if it's far more common sense to just wait for a final version.

Apparently after alpha and beta, progress will be reset. There will then be an extended 'gamma' phase in the run up to release. All progress in the gamma phase will be retained unless there is some unforeseen showstopper requiring a reset.

We should be getting more info on the beta stages fairly soon.

The game is gonna be awesome btw.

Edit: ninja'd by everybody!

 

[Jezzah]

Id honestly say its well worth going for the prem beta at this point.

I initially bought prem beta about a year ago but plumped for the alpha as it seemed a long time to wait after a few months. I thought Prem Beta was amazing value back then and even more so now.

 

[ubermick]

Apparently after alpha and beta, progress will be reset. There will then be an extended 'gamma' phase in the run up to release. All progress in the gamma phase will be retained unless there is some unforeseen showstopper requiring a reset.

The game is gonna be awesome.

No doubt whatsoever about that. I'm a longtime commander from the Amiga days on Frontier, and I've been eagerly watching the development videos. I'm squeaking like a little girl at the prospect, and just banged together a 4770k/GTX770 box purely for my wee Elite cockpit. Which is why I've gotten a wee bit twitchy. But I've participated in development phases before (I live in America now, around Silicon Valley, and have a few mates working for EA and one or two others) although have never seen a pay-to-participate method like this, so know what alpha testing involves - so 200 quid for something as potentially unstable (and seems like it has been) and unusable didn't make sense to me. But was happy to jump on the Beta bus - and like all buses, seems like that's running behind.

So at this point, have been wondering if it's worth paying for Beta, especially having read this thread. As others have touched on, I expected it released a while back, and it's looking like it's still another two months off given that the first beta release is being rolled out to alpha testers only (am I right in that?)

Buuuuut… If you can get a head start on the game before the full release via beta, then it still holds value, I think. I mean, be nice to be safely ensconced in my kitted-out Cobra with money in the bank and some practice under my belt before the flood of cannon fodd… I mean, fresh mea… I mean, new users shows up.

Have to say though - as someone from the outside looking in, it does seem rather greedy from the developers to be charging such a premium (and still trying to milk that), and I can very much sense an air of superiority amongst SOME of those who currently have access to the alpha. I can understand why people who've shelled out £150 a pop are upset at the current situation (although think some people are going a bit over the top about it), but can't understand why some people seem to want to rub others' noses in it.

(The argument that the alpha release isn't worth getting angry about is a good one. The argument that "Haha, I paid more than you, if you wanted it this early, open up the wallet again" is not)

 

[insanephoton]

I'm not sure if FD originally planned to give the alphas 'early access' to the beta stages but the experience of alpha 3.0 probably forced the issue.

We assume that alpha 3.0 worked well in the controlled environment of FD. Essentially it's pretty much what they demonstrated at the BAFTAs. However when it was released into the wilds of the real internet, the multiplayer fell over badly. The majority of alphas were stuck watching a spinning orange ship. The previous 2.x builds had their issues but for the most part had worked for most people.

As it happened over the weekend, there was very little in the way of communication from the devs. The alpha forums were not a good place to be. Everything from people suggesting all sorts of things that they thought might fix things (none did), to people complaining about how broke it was. It was at least as heated as the controversy over the last newsletter and probably more so. IIRC a fix was released on the Monday and things calmed down.

As premium beta 1.0 will be at least as big a jump as alpha 3.0 so it makes sense to use a bunch of tame guinea pigs (the alphas) to test that it doesn't fall over straight away. We don't know if the beta will be in stages like the alpha or just premium beta then standard beta. If it is in stages, then there is a good chance than the alphas will get (possibly be forced to) early access to each of the stages. Before we get into whining about how it's all unfair and the alphas getting preferential treatment, consider the possibility that we might still find another showstopper and the alphas are stuck with a broken build until a fix is found, while the premium betas can continue testing the previous build.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So at this point, have been wondering if it's worth paying for Beta, especially having read this thread. As others have touched on, I expected it released a while back, and it's looking like it's still another two months off given that the first beta release is being rolled out to alpha testers only (am I right in that?)

Beta will be rolled out for alpha testers just several hours prior beta testers - if there's no show stopper bugs after quick testing.

Buuuuut… If you can get a head start on the game before the full release via beta, then it still holds value, I think. I mean, be nice to be safely ensconced in my kitted-out Cobra with money in the bank and some practice under my belt before the flood of cannon fodd… I mean, fresh mea… I mean, new users shows up.

FD doesn't guarantee keeping you char progress trough beta, they are saying gamma (which will you get if you preorder copy of the game) will be stage they will try to avoid any char resets. With all testing going on, I can predict safely beta will have multiple resets.

Have to say though - as someone from the outside looking in, it does seem rather greedy from the developers to be charging such a premium (and still trying to milk that), and I can very much sense an air of superiority amongst SOME of those who currently have access to the alpha. I can understand why people who've shelled out £150 a pop are upset at the current situation (although think some people are going a bit over the top about it), but can't understand why some people seem to want to rub others' noses in it.

No one wants to rub anything in other noses. People just need to learn to wait for things to come. Access to alpha and beta is being sold because people wanted to keep getting them. FD come forward and even re-enabled upgrade, which was originally backer's privilege. As beta will get char resets, and alpha is just crashy fun where you can lost your char progress in one big swoop by another nasty bug, I really don't see what's the fuzz.

(The argument that the alpha release isn't worth getting angry about is a good one. The argument that "Haha, I paid more than you, if you wanted it this early, open up the wallet again" is not)

That second argument is not good one, especially as no one here has expressed such attitude.

 

[Leonick]

it's looking like it's still another two months off given that the first beta release is being rolled out to alpha testers only (am I right in that?)

it does seem rather greedy from the developers to be charging such a premium (and still trying to milk that), and I can very much sense an air of superiority amongst SOME of those who currently have access to the alpha.

All beta versions will be rolled out to alpha testers first, but unless something is critically wrong with the build the exclusivity should be short, potentially just a matter of hours.

It is pricey. It all comes down to the fact that the game was kickstarted. Pledge more and you'll be more involved (or involved sooner) in the development and testing, that's just the way kickstarter tends to work. Naturally then they keep the pricing. Can you imagine the reaction if a while after the kickstarter it would have gotten way cheaper to get alpha or beta access.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It was announced as a reason to spend cash and join the alpha, not as a kindly safeguard for the beta masses.

And you have evidence based on....? You seem to confuse what's PR job is - theirs is to sell a little safeguard FD is forced to introduce as somehow a benefit of alpha.

If alpha would be 50 - 70 gbp, I would agree it would sound interesting, but alpha is so ridiculously expensive, that any claims of cashing in, cash grab, etc. are just plain funny and dumb. At this point some people will update (so FD don't get full alpha price anyway), very few (if any) will buy complete alpha access. Together it's not worth even a regular week of sales of finished game.

Also if you think FD needs funds, check out their reports to shareholders.

People said all kinds of things to justify the announcement, all based on nothing at all, and nearly all of them in alpha who just happened to benefit. After a few days of deafening silence, FD have now said similar. Well I don't know what to say to you if you don't think it strange that this was never floated previously, or announced as such in the newsletter.

It was floated previously by many forumians. You just choose to ignore it.