My idea how to eliviate combat loging in open.

[dxm55]

I can see how that could work, however the problem is differentiating between combat loggers and those whose game has frozen. I've never combat logged (mainly because I never play in open) but I've had to kill the ED process a lot recently because of the game freezing when killing Anacondas in HiRES. To the server I'm guessing that the two things are indistinguishable.

Ding ding ding. This.

I've frozen so many damned times whilst turning and burning in Hi RES it's not even funny. How would anyone even know I combat logged or got disconnected?

One moment I'm on the tail of that shields-down FDL hearing the cash register cha-cheeng on the next bounty payout. And the next, I hear my audio in a loop and the screen frozen, with said FDL at 5% hull.... and absolutely nothing I can do about it except to curse and swear at the screen and tab-out.


And yeah, what if my damned cat jumps on to the table and topples my router, taking out the internet connection, and I'm stuck with having to justify or prove my case just to get back ingame. So many other reasons why I could have "combat logged".
- Power in the house went out (FD may want to put a 15-minutes UPS as a recommended requirement in the game's package )
- Internet connection got cut because I didn't pay the bill / lightning storm outside took out the connection / etc etc
- My damned computer froze, BSOD'ed, blew up in my face, got taken out by an IED, etc etc
- Tornado hit my house and ripped said keyboard and PC out of my hands....

How to separate the intentional from the unintentional?


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[CMDR Dumbfries]

are you saying Some people seem to need to be immortal to play a game whether its vs humans or npcs, to give them self worth?
or are you confusing the fact that this is actually an exploit that does need to be addressed with your belief that you should be able to be immortal if you want?
Its cheating and may eventually end up in banning.

all this idea does is make it a more civil way to persuade the combat loggers to either play by the rules. or go play in solo.
I think its a bit better than an outright ban.
Not as aggressive as my real idea of put them back in a sidewinder in trevithick. but some people probably do actually have a crash and so on. so that could be a bit severe.

No, I'm saying that people who keeping harping on this issue need to feed their precious egos by killing other players whether that player wants to fight, or not. I've had players log after interdicting them. I laughed about it, not come here and cry in thread after thread.

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So you approve of cheating over playing in a mode better suited to your skills ?

I approve of not erasing hours of someone's progress over a few seconds of pew-pew.

 

[shambles1980]

No, I'm saying that people who keeping harping on this issue need to feed their precious egos by killing other players whether that player wants to fight, or not. I've had players log after interdicting them. I laughed about it, not come here and cry in thread after thread.

Perhaps you are part of the problem 2 then.
Plenty of games have died because of cheaters, and the developers doing nothing about it.
There is at least 1 forum member who no longer plays due to combat loggers.
you may be perfectly happy to play vs immortal players. but most arent.
And to slightly over do it with the quotes..

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

with the current trend. it wont be long until almost every one combat logs.
and then what.

 

[Laste]

You just want to punish people, that's all i get out of this. You don't like combat loggers so you want to punish them. Correct?

This isn't about anything that will make gameplay better, because it won't. People will play the way they want to play. Having someone log off on you is, i guess, a little annoying.

It's not cheating as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over you or the game using code, an exploit , bug ...etc.

All it does is they get away from the encounter, that's it.

 

[zxaber]

any client side file creation or removal can be easily overcome with permissions..
you just save the file when flag is set to off "not in combat" permission the bejesus out of it. and the game cant edit it. you can also atribute it to secondary write location. and it could write to a diferent file entierly but it would read from the original.

the game would be un aware of any of this. and the flag would forever be "not in combat"

Those two specific exploits could be solved by the game reading after writing and making sure the file is set to what it should be. Still, I get your point. Simply replacing the file with the game closed would also bypass it.

I feel that the amount of people willing to go that far would be small, and that most people who cared that bad about avoiding PvP would simply move to Mobius. Still, an alternative of the client sending a file server somewhere the commands to check or uncheck the flag would probably also work, and now that I think about it, that might have been what you intended to start with as far as detecting the log.

I still believe that bans (even in this case where most are just warnings) are a heavy-handed way to handle the situation.

 

[shambles1980]

You just want to punish people, that's all i get out of this. You don't like combat loggers so you want to punish them. Correct?

This isn't about anything that will make gameplay better, because it won't. People will play the way they want to play. Having someone log off on you is, i guess, a little annoying.

It's not cheating as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over you or the game using code, an exploit , bug ...etc.

All it does is they get away from the encounter, that's it.

the fact that the developers say it is cheating.. makes it cheating
There is nothing else to say about it.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Perhaps you are part of the problem 2 then.
Plenty of games have died because of cheaters, and the developers doing nothing about it.
There is at least 1 forum member who no longer plays due to combat loggers.
you may be perfectly happy to play vs immortal players. but most arent.
And to slightly over do it with the quotes..

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

with the current trend. it wont be long until almost every one combat logs.
and then what.

Plenty of games have died because of actual hacks and mods, not pulling the plug on your router.

 

[Jockey79]

possibly they CL to npcs too so the mode thing is irrelivant.

But lets not boil down to who and why. etc.

the simple facts are.
CL is cheating <- yes, it is
Fdev seem unable to work out how to punish them. <- massive assumption, with no proof so not a "fact"
This is 1 idea that may help alleviate the issue in open.

anything else is off topic. <- not your call, conversations drift and have off shoots as well as related factors to the main topic

So lets not start dragging my ship costs this much in to it.
or i think i should be allowed to cheat. <- one of the best ways to prevent cheating, is to educate people on it and show them no excuse is acceptable. This can have a better/ longer lasting effect than any artificial system

Answers in quote

 

[Ian Skippy]

You just want to punish people, that's all i get out of this. You don't like combat loggers so you want to punish them. Correct?

This isn't about anything that will make gameplay better, because it won't. People will play the way they want to play. Having someone log off on you is, i guess, a little annoying.

It's not cheating as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over you or the game using code, an exploit , bug ...etc.

All it does is they get away from the encounter, that's it.

FD specifically said that CLing is a cheat, and is not allowed. You want to log off? Use the menu. Anything else is a no-no. And yes, I dislike playing with cheaters so would prefer them being sent to Solo/Group.

 

[shambles1980]

and that most people who cared that bad about avoiding PvP would simply move to Mobius.

if that was the case then people who combat log would not be in open.

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Plenty of games have died because of actually hacks and mods, not pulling the plug on your router.

whats the diference between an imortality hack. or unplugging your router so you dont die?

The end result is the same.

 

[Jockey79]

...
It's not cheating as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over you or the game using code, an exploit , bug ...etc.
...

Apart from Frontier clearly stating combat loggin is cheating - it does also give people an advantage, because there is no consequences to their actions or choices.
So that is a massive unfair advantage, over those who do not cheat and do not try to fly in PvP infested space because of the consequences of being in that space.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

It keeps getting brought up that FD considers combat logging cheating, but if you don't frequent the forums how would anyone know that? Maybe 10% of players read the forums and I don't recall seeing anything IN the game that mentions it.

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if that was the case then people who combat log would not be in open.

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whats the diference between an imortality hack. or unplugging your router so you dont die?

The end result is the same.

No, it isn't and I think you know that. Being immoral and disconnecting are two vastly different things.

 

[nicemoreoften]

Also remember, some games freeze frequently (AMD Supercruise was a recent (patched) example)

 

[Shawnski]

I have had to three finger salute this game countless times over the last while. Quite often, it was in RES zones. Missed out on many a bounty as I have fun ramming for the death blow, which is when, at times, it would freeze. Only once did I get a pop-up to report about what happened.

Secondarily, I am having a bit of a graphics card/driver issue. If I have any other program running, like YouTube, in the background, it is likely I will get a driver error, which freezes everything. Three finger salute, here I come. Even just having this forum up could do it.

Lastly, I can get lagging after accumulated play time. This has also led to freezing, and/or having to reboot the game... and yes, sometimes it requires a three finger salute to do so.

None of these situations are malicious exiting. They could, in fact, explain that other posters thread about a possible CLing situation.

Now, as for the System Map taking almost a minute to engage (for me), with no way to cancel it, what would happen if someone intradicted me then? Would I three finger salute? Hmm. Good question. No other CMDR has ever tried to intradict me in the first place, let alone when I am stuck in map hell, but that is a possibility.

If I were to find a situation where I froze in combat or elsewhere, for whatever reason, only to return to the game to find myself dead or otherwise penalized, it would be the last time I played the game.

 

[shambles1980]

No, it isn't and I think you know that. Being immoral and disconnecting are two vastly different things.

totally different because in 1 you die.. Oh wait no you dont..
how is it different again?

 

[Jockey79]

It keeps getting brought up that FD considers combat logging cheating, but if you don't frequent the forums how would anyone know that? Maybe 10% of players read the forums and I don't recall seeing anything IN the game that mentions it.

ignorance of the rules is no defence.
it is also your personal responsibility to keep updated on the conditions for continued service. not FDs fault if anyone fails to perform their end of the deal.

 

[swefan]

Many people want to playing quietly in open-play without the possibility that a guy kills them without reason.
People who do mining or trading have no chance against a vessel equipped for combat, you want to make the game fun only for griefers?
If the game allows you to kill someone for no reason and without giving the victim the option of paying for life (for example a part of the cargo or an amount of credits) and griefers doesn't receive a severe punishment for murder for no reason, then you have to accept that these people who logged out to survive not receive a serious punishment.
Fight people that can defend himself, or give opportunities to those that can not defend themselves to survive in some way, or accept severe punishment for the murder without reason.
I have never used this trick, but I understand a miner or a trader with a cargo of several million, be attacked and killed for no reason and with no chance to defend himself.
So no, it's not a good idea

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

totally different because in 1 you die.. Oh wait no you dont..
how is it different again?

If I'm shooting you and you have infinite shields or some other hack, you are effectively immortal. Pulling the plug doesn't mean you are incapable of dying.

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ignorance of the rules is no defence.
it is also your personal responsibility to keep updated on the conditions for continued service. not FDs fault if anyone fails to perform their end of the deal.

This isn't a court of law, it's a videogame.

 

[Jockey79]

If I'm shooting you and you have infinite shields or some other hack, you are effectively immortal. Pulling the plug doesn't mean you are incapable of dying.

In that fight it does. Because you've cheated your way out of the line of fire.

The end result is the same, you did not lose your ship in a situation you should have.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

In that fight it does. Because you've cheated your way out of the line of fire.

The end result is the same, you did not lose your ship in a situation you should have.

This game has killed me quite a few times before I could even consider pulling the plug if I wanted to. So, no.