General / Off-Topic Theres a fraction to much friction

[-o-]

A section of the forum rules;

"If you disagree with a moderator's course of action over an incident, whether that be the closing of a thread or the issuing of an infraction, you must contact them or another member of the moderation team privately to voice your grievance. It is not acceptable to do this in a public thread, any attempt to do so will be seen as an attempt to undermine the moderation team and will result in an infraction. If you disagree with a moderator's decision it is also not acceptable to verbally abuse or harass them, either through the forum or any other form of communication- any attempt to do so may result in a permanent ban from the forums"

Any attempt.

Even if you start a new thread, if the mod interprets that as an attempt to undermine their action, the thread may be closed.

From my reading and understanding of the rules, the mods can only do this if they have reasonable cause to believe a post is in any way related to an 'action' by a mod.

Indeed, they may interpret this post itself to be an attempt to undermine the action of a mod purely based on the timing and subject matter of this post.

I remember there was a recent thread where someone was posting a animated GIF of a child accidently? setting fire to his pants around their 'sensitive ' area, then another individual preceeding to kick them in that area. Now a mod could deem the decision to do nothing about that GIF as an 'action' or a decision in itself. Thus, as I have now commented about the inaction on that GIF, that may mean a mod can see me attempting to undermine their action in public - hence I will receive an infraction.

No action can also be an action ?

I don't envy their job. Consistency between mod decisions is very difficult to impossible. I know they all say they get together to discuss certain decisions so they can provide a grouped decision, but interpretation of what is offensive and what is not is very subjective - even at a grouped level.

 

[Hamerstein]

Fortunately our mods aren't robots or scripted code.

While technically raising a concern regarding something a mod hasn't moderated could be classed as "questioning a decision" (assuming a decision was ever made and it wasn't just missed), our mods are (in my opinion) more than capable of deducing a genuine concern from an attempt to undermine them or taking the mickey.

Another good reason why all content filtering isn't left to scripts and has a human input.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

Fortunately our mods aren't robots or scripted code.

While technically raising a concern regarding something a mod hasn't moderated could be classed as "questioning a decision" (assuming a decision was ever made and it wasn't just missed), our mods are (in my opinion) more than capable of deducing a genuine concern from an attempt to undermine them or taking the mickey.

Another good reason why all content filtering isn't left to scripts and has a human input.

it depends how its done, a public post saying 'why you not deal with XXX mods?' would be looked upon negatively - using the report post feature of the forums to highlight something that concerns you to the mod team is just being a good forum member IMO.

although it goes without saying that overuse of said reporting feature to flood the mod team with posts that annoy you while still being within the rules would be a big nono

 

[noodle]

I think it's worth remembering that the forums have leapt from being a retirement home for tumble-weed, to being the internet equivalent of an M25 junction. It's going to take the mods a while to find their feet. In the meantime, I certainly think a few interventions have been a tad.... over-enthusiastic? But then equally, some threads/comments have enjoyed far more tolerance than I'd have expected.

At the end of the day, it's only the internet.

 

[Frank]

Do the forums have a gauge? I had this feeling that there's less activity here than before. Granted there are now 6738 members but we seem to be losing more posters.

 

[Dalkeith]

Yep the price of success is a bit more friction.

Thats just the way it is and if its the cost I've got to pay then so be it.

 

[Hamerstein]

it depends how its done, a public post saying 'why you not deal with XXX mods?' would be looked upon negatively - using the report post feature of the forums to highlight something that concerns you to the mod team is just being a good forum member IMO.

That's a good point Andy, I'd forgotten about the report post feature (never felt the need to use it ). It rather pulls the teeth of making a public post about an issue that a mod appears to have ignored.

although it goes without saying that overuse of said reporting feature to flood the mod team with posts that annoy you while still being within the rules would be a big nono

Agreed, I wonder if there's a limit to the number of reports you can do in a time period (like the rep award limit), to prevent report spammage?

 

[Brett C]

I normally do not talk about moderation stuff behind the scenes, but here goes.


Unfortunately, with how things have been lately on these boards (sharp population increases, moderators going MIA, the whole lot of potential issues), moderation has become very hit-and-miss. Having reports via the 'report posts' feature is nice, as it helps us direct our attention to threads/users/posts/et.al. With that being said, the moderation team here is fully volunteer. All of us moderators attempt to moderate by the same book. However, as seen - moderation can become either quite over-fanatical or under-whelming. As it stands currently, our moderation team isn't a full-time group. A few of us moderators only visit here a few hours a week, while others visit here on a nearly hourly (me!) basis. This also puts a severe strain on our moderation capabilities.

These forums have grown very quickly these past few months. Which means that there has been numerous occasions where the current forums rule set is starting to show its age. While us moderators have cooked up a new rule set, moderation policy and general moderation actions... we are still awaiting a response from Frontier on whether or not the new stuff can get the 'green light'. Essentially the rules go along the following basis: Treat others the way that you wish to be treated, no trolling/flaming/baiting people. Which both in the least are a general standard to most company discussion boards.

These forums get very active when a new update is posted, so does any other community when news is posted. Think of it as a squall line. The build up is VERY quick; posts, topics, etc all happen in a hours or days time. The rest of the week, us moderators have to play catch-up with the posts/topics. Interpretation with the posts are a bit different between each of us moderators. While some of us see particular words as offensive, other moderators do not. That all comes down to interpretation of how something is stated.

As for this thread, I'll leave it be for now as it hasn't 'gone to the depths of no return'. Sure, this could be seen as selective moderation; however I see a potential avenue for feedback. If this thread turns into a mud-slinging contest, well - we all know what happens then.

 

[Brett C]

That's a good point Andy, I'd forgotten about the report post feature (never felt the need to use it ). It rather pulls the teeth of making a public post about an issue that a mod appears to have ignored.



Agreed, I wonder if there's a limit to the number of reports you can do in a time period (like the rep award limit), to prevent report spammage?

I think its limited to a report can be sent once every 60 seconds. We recently turned off the report post to email setting and forced them all to be within a private forum. This means that reports that come in are automatically grouped up to a particular topic.

So for example, if i was to report -o-'s original post right now, it'd end up as a new topic in the reported posts forums. Now, let's say noodle reports the same post as I did, his report is then automatically grouped up with my report. Which keeps the process MUCH cleaner than what the system use to be.

Previously, if someone was to report a post, all of us moderators would get an email stating that UserX had reported PostY in ForumZ with ABC reason(s). There wasn't any grouping, just total confusion for the moderators.

Now, abusing the report post system just to get a moderator's attention will quickly get whomever is doing it on the short-list to getting a vacation from the forums.

 

[-o-]

Rarely do you see a mod post without their mod hat on - assuming they don't have toons.

Makes you wonder if that was a requirement of being a mod. Any enjoyment from contributing to the forum would be heavily reduced if you were too busy or discouraged to post whilst on here. Probably get worse once the game is released ... may explain why some are MIA during alpha

Think the mods should get some reward for their unpaid efforts. I used to be a football referee and appreciated it when some in the crowd threw edible fruit at me.

 

[Hamerstein]

I think its limited to a report can be sent once every 60 seconds. We recently turned off the report post to email setting and forced them all to be within a private forum. This means that reports that come in are automatically grouped up to a particular topic.
Now, abusing the report post system just to get a moderator's attention will quickly get whomever is doing it on the short-list to getting a vacation from the forums.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify that Brett

Rarely do you see a mod post without their mod hat on - assuming they don't have toons.

Makes you wonder if that was a requirement of being a mod. Any enjoyment from contributing to the forum would be heavily reduced if you were too busy or discouraged to post whilst on here. Probably get worse once the game is released ... may explain why some are MIA during alpha

TJ posts quite a lot without his Moderator hat on, though it's mostly in light hearted threads. It probably wouldn't be a good idea for mods to become embroiled in our lively debates, it would lead to a conflict of interests I suspect.

Think the mods should get some reward for their unpaid efforts. I used to be a football referee and appreciated it when some in the crowd threw edible fruit at me.

My Dad used to be a football referee, I think his philosophy was much the same. He also liked receiving money, though he often remarked that high velocity notes would have been nicer than coinage...

 

[Styggron]

It is indeed a very difficult job and most of us rarely post without our mod hat on.

 

[JeffRyan]

The fact that TJ posts without his mod hat on on a regular basis is one of the nicer things in this forum. Amongst a lot of nice things.

I think the mods have been doing a good job.

 

[-o-]

Can one of the mods provide me, or point me in the right direction, to a listing of the current forum mods.

I want to start a new thread titled "Rate the Mod"

 

[Brett C]

The page that lists the moderators is currently... a bit broken. As it's showing everyone rather just moderators.

 

[Darren Grey]

Any attempt.

Yep. Gives them the flexibility to do what they want without forum members nit-picking over the rules. When it comes to this sort of thing it can be best to have a blanket policy which gives no room for subjective debate. If you're trying to lay down the law on a situation the last thing you want is an unruly forum member going "well I don't think that blah blah blah".

I moderate some other forums with much smaller communities where we can get away without any rules but "be nice". I can't begin to imagine what it's like to mod a busy place like this.

 

[Styggron]

The fact that TJ posts without his mod hat on on a regular basis is one of the nicer things in this forum. Amongst a lot of nice things.

I think the mods have been doing a good job.

I too post without a mod hat on but it is more and more infrequent. Often adding one more voice would not bring the conversation forward more hence I remain reticent. I post in the Alpha forum quite a bit........well.............when I have something to say anyway.........

 

[noodle]

I too post without a mod hat on but it is more and more infrequent. Often adding one more voice would not bring the conversation forward more hence I remain reticent. I post in the Alpha forum quite a bit........well.............when I have something to say anyway.........

I think it's quite unusual for mods to feel reticent about posting, unless they're getting involved in a heated argument. I've never experienced that on another forum. Typically, mods are assumed to be posting as normal people unless they say something specifically mod-like

 

[Sir.Tj]

I'm just a glutton for punisment...or unbalanced. Take your pick....:S

 

[noodle]

I'm just a glutton for dishing out punishment...

Fixed that quote for ya