The Interdiction discussion thread.

[Mr_sukebe]

Sympathize with your issue. The thing is, interdictions (even without cargo, missions or PP) are a random part of the game, so the best thing you can do is teach your son how to escape from them, either by avoiding the interdiction if he can, or by submitting and then boosting (show him how to put pips to ENG), and then jump back to SC, or better still teach him how to high wake out to a different system.

He (I would say all players) will need these skills at the beginning of the game until he can outfit a ship with some combat capability, and until his own combat skills are honed. I certainly needed them when I started.

???????????
Why are you defending what is frankly just LAZY design.

Interdictions are NOT just random. A designer has put them there, and clearly they vary. e.g. Stack yourselves up with Shadow missions and you'll get inundated with interdictions.
The implications are simple, there's some levers behind the scenes that CAN be played with by the designers. The implications are simple:
- If you're trader, using a dedicated trading ship is now a bit of a nightmare. All the traders I know are now using "armed" trade ships, not dedicated ones
- Some of the present interdictions are just rubbish. Just been interdicted in my fully kitted out Python by...an Eagle. Just WHY? Surely NPCs are NOT meant to be just suicidal.
- In the case of my son, you have a new player, and I'll say it again, with NO cargo. If the bad guys deliberately interdict us in shadow missions because they're "been tipped off", then surely it makes sense in reverse that they're aware that ships with no cargo might aswell be ignored unless they're bounty hunting.

THIS is the type of pap that will STOP new players joining. My son was far from impressed.

As for learning skills, I DO understand that, and was teaching him jump and docking skills, after basic combat piloting. However, dealing with interdictions is not exactly that easy when you're a brand new player and eight years old. Oh, and please don't say he's too you, as they game has a PEGI7 rating.

 

[Faded Glory]

???????????
Why are you defending what is frankly just LAZY design.

Interdictions are NOT just random. A designer has put them there, and clearly they vary. e.g. Stack yourselves up with Shadow missions and you'll get inundated with interdictions.
The implications are simple, there's some levers behind the scenes that CAN be played with by the designers. The implications are simple:
- If you're trader, using a dedicated trading ship is now a bit of a nightmare. All the traders I know are now using "armed" trade ships, not dedicated ones
- In the case of my son, you have a new player, and I'll say it again, with NO cargo. If the bad guys deliberately interdict us in shadow missions because they're "been tipped off", then surely it makes sense in reverse that they're aware that ships with no cargo might aswell be ignored unless they're bounty hunting.

THIS is the type of pap that will STOP new players joining. My son was far from impressed.

As for learning skills, I DO understand that, and was teaching him jump and docking skills, after basic combat piloting. However, dealing with interdictions is not exactly that easy when you're a brand new player and eight years old. Oh, and please don't say he's too you, as they game has a PEGI7 rating.

Certainly wasn't implying he was too young. Sorry if my post offended you. Was just trying to offer some constructive suggestions.

 

[Javert]

I tend to agree it would be better if new players with very low net worth and no cargo were not interdicted. Might be worth posting a suggestion about this on the suggestions forum.

There might be a few things coming into play here:
- You may have accidently jumped to a system with high probability of interdiction.
- Your son might have been very unlucky and rolled a double one or whatever but...
- There is a new mechanic in the latest versions where once a particular NPC takes a liking to you, if they interdict you and you escape, the same NPC will continue to interdict you again and again.

I can see an argument that new players should be completely immune to intderdiction for their first few sorties, but I don't think this is how FD like to do things.

Also, I've noticed that there is an immersion breaking tendency for these NPC interdictions by the same NPC to "cheat" the FSD timer and appear to interdict you again in less time than a player should be able to get back into SC. I think these are issues with the new NPC behaviour that will hopefully be ironed out over time.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Certainly wasn't implying he was too young. Sorry if my post offended you. Was just trying to offer some constructive suggestions.

Sorry guys, you'll have to excuse my frustration, as I DO appreciate your positive words and suggestions.
The issue here is that I totally love the game, it's ace. However, it's NOT perfect and we need to speak out and make Mr B and his worker bees understand what is an isn't working.

 

[Faded Glory]

Sorry guys, you'll have to excuse my frustration, as I DO appreciate your positive words and suggestions.
The issue here is that I totally love the game, it's ace. However, it's NOT perfect and we need to speak out and make Mr B and his worker bees understand what is an isn't working.

No problem.

As Javert points out, there is a new 'feature' where an NPC will continue to interdict you if you are able to escape / evade them. Hasn't happened to me, but I have read about it countless times here on the forums. If you feel strongly about it, open a support ticket with FD, especially if this is what happened. It's also worth noting, if that was the case, that the NPC won't / can't follow you if you jump to a different system, so it's still worth knowing that tactic.

 

[rootsrat]

No problem.

As Javert points out, there is a new 'feature' where an NPC will continue to interdict you if you are able to escape / evade them. Hasn't happened to me, but I have read about it countless times here on the forums. If you feel strongly about it, open a support ticket with FD, especially if this is what happened. It's also worth noting, if that was the case, that the NPC won't / can't follow you if you jump to a different system, so it's still worth knowing that tactic.

Happened to me today during smuggling mission from 17 Draconis. I arrived at the destination system and on my way to the relevant outpost I was inderdicted by a Cobra. I was in a Cobra myself too. Standard procedure - submit, boost, low wake out. Within 2-5 seconds from entering SC again the same NPC started interdicting me again. The same process repeated 6 times in a row. Not even once I was given a chance to fly away in SC, as a new i'diction started within seconds of entering SC again. His rank was Competent.

Simply ridiculous. If the NPC was of a higher rank - I could understand, as it would reflect the skill, reflex etc. I would be annoyed, but I'd think it was fair. Not with Competent rank though, not 6 times in a row, not within mere seconds after entering SC again.

In the end I High Wake'd out to another system, then jumped back and successfully delivered the cargo.

 

[Mitch Brewer]

I'm an old school Elite player but just been playing the newer game 2 days ago. Today I was penniless and harmless and was flying 4T of food cartridges on a trade trip. Got interdicted. He fired 2 shots at me and ran. I did a simple avoidance maneuver, matched speed and trailed his tail until I took him out. He had a 25k bounty which was a nice little surprise but after it was over I couldn't help but wonder why would he interdict me and how could a supposed competent criminal be taken out by a noob.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Strikes me that FD should re-consider the reason why an NPC should even bother interdicting you.

Thoughts that spring to mind as potential triggers:
- You're of a different faction, hostile and he really does just want to blow you up
- You have cargo of value that the NPC can salvage and take away. Let's have less of this Eagle trying to interdict a Type6 such that he can steal 2 tons of cargo for his hold
- You have a bounty
For points 2 and 3, both can be quantified, so make the probability of interdiction and toughness of the enemy directly related to the value in question.

So for example:
- Target is carrying 100 tons of foodstuffs. The interdiction value for an NPC in say a Viper should be very low, as maybe he can only steal 8 tons of cargo. So value calculated = 8 tons * cost of foodstuffs
- Target has a 500,000 bounty. BIG value. That should be attracting interest from NPCs in some decent ships
- Target is on a shadow mission. Only carrying 20 tons of goods, but it turns out that the value is 20 million credits. Yep, another good reason to be interdicted
- Target is factionless player with no cargo or bounty. IGNORE

See, the above is really straightforward to suggest. Come on FD. You have some great developers, but clearly some sligthly screwy designers. Have a chat with them and keep it both simple AND sensible.

 

[Javert]

Happened to me today during smuggling mission from 17 Draconis. I arrived at the destination system and on my way to the relevant outpost I was inderdicted by a Cobra. I was in a Cobra myself too. Standard procedure - submit, boost, low wake out. Within 2-5 seconds from entering SC again the same NPC started interdicting me again. The same process repeated 6 times in a row. Not even once I was given a chance to fly away in SC, as a new i'diction started within seconds of entering SC again. His rank was Competent.

Simply ridiculous. If the NPC was of a higher rank - I could understand, as it would reflect the skill, reflex etc. I would be annoyed, but I'd think it was fair. Not with Competent rank though, not 6 times in a row, not within mere seconds after entering SC again.

In the end I High Wake'd out to another system, then jumped back and successfully delivered the cargo.

I am not against having the feature that an NPC who is after you will continue to chase you and interdict you again after you have escaped once - I thinks this is actually a good mechanic that creates the feeling that the NPC is somehow persistent.

It does make life difficult if you are going without weapons in a fast ship as all you can do is boost away and repeat same again unless you high wake out (or log out and back in again).

I think after a few times, the NPC should realise that they cannot actually catch you and give up and/or not appear again until you drop out yourself and they follow you.

As I said above, my other significant issue is that in my view the NPC ships are cheating as they don't seem to respect the full cool down timer and charge up time after you've escaped from them. I'll be honest - I haven't actually timed this with a stopwatch so I may be proved wrong, but that's my impression.

 

[rootsrat]

I am not against having the feature that an NPC who is after you will continue to chase you and interdict you again after you have escaped once - I thinks this is actually a good mechanic that creates the feeling that the NPC is somehow persistent.

It does make life difficult if you are going without weapons in a fast ship as all you can do is boost away and repeat same again unless you high wake out (or log out and back in again).

I think after a few times, the NPC should realise that they cannot actually catch you and give up and/or not appear again until you drop out yourself and they follow you.

As I said above, my other significant issue is that in my view the NPC ships are cheating as they don't seem to respect the full cool down timer and charge up time after you've escaped from them. I'll be honest - I haven't actually timed this with a stopwatch so I may be proved wrong, but that's my impression.

No, don't get me wrong - I am not against this mechanics, I also think it's a good step and keeping that NPC persistent is great. It's just about his imaginary super-skills at the rank of Competent

 

[GoodGorilla]

I don't mind if an NPC would interdict constantly if they have a chance of defeating you. It's really, really stupid if a sidewinder has a death wish against a more powerful ship. There are multiple reasons why a weaker ship shouldn't constantly interdict a better one, unless you give the npc a name like "space troll". I mean even if it's an authority vessel, they got to be insane to interdict unless it's in a wing.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

I am not against having the feature that an NPC who is after you will continue to chase you and interdict you again after you have escaped once - I thinks this is actually a good mechanic that creates the feeling that the NPC is somehow persistent.

It does make life difficult if you are going without weapons in a fast ship as all you can do is boost away and repeat same again unless you high wake out (or log out and back in again).

I think after a few times, the NPC should realise that they cannot actually catch you and give up and/or not appear again until you drop out yourself and they follow you.

As I said above, my other significant issue is that in my view the NPC ships are cheating as they don't seem to respect the full cool down timer and charge up time after you've escaped from them. I'll be honest - I haven't actually timed this with a stopwatch so I may be proved wrong, but that's my impression.

My feeling is that NPCs should basically follow the same rules of operation in this universe as non NPCs. Means in terms to inderdiction that
if you successfull evade an interdiction the NPC will fall out of supercruise and have a FSD cooldown on 30s. (OK its NPC 15s).
if you submit cooldown is not matching but, there is damage applied to the ship interdicting in the same way as it is for players
and based on equipment, damage and mass lock load times to charge FSD are counting, no instant start up.
If you loose interdiction process you will have a cooldown, I do not know if interdictior falls out of SC ungracefully too. Never interdicted anybody so no experience.
but behaviour should be same as in PvP. The rest as stated in submission.


Regards,
Miklos

 

[Mr_sukebe]

My feeling is that NPCs should basically follow the same rules of operation in this universe as non NPCs. Means in terms to inderdiction that
if you successfull evade an interdiction the NPC will fall out of supercruise and have a FSD cooldown on 30s. (OK its NPC 15s).
if you submit cooldown is not matching but, there is damage applied to the ship interdicting in the same way as it is for players
and based on equipment, damage and mass lock load times to charge FSD are counting, no instant start up.
If you loose interdiction process you will have a cooldown, I do not know if interdictior falls out of SC ungracefully too. Never interdicted anybody so no experience.
but behaviour should be same as in PvP. The rest as stated in submission.


Regards,
Miklos

Agreed.
Having NPCs "cheat" might well facilitate easy ways to vary difficulty levels, but at least in my opinion, just destroys the level of immersion within the game, simply because it stands out so much.

Again (IMO), FD should go back to basics to re-confirm:
- WHY would an NPC bother with interdiction
- How do Nav points work, e.g. ensuring that we do all actually go there on entering a system, possibly dropping us into normal space as against supercruise
- That NPCs do have ships with the same capabilities as ours. If there's a need to create say a new type for tracking down "players with large bounties", then create a new "super" Viper with the jump range of an Asp, but also appropriate compromises on it's load, cost and combat capabilities.
- If possible, create a logical method for how the police respond. If a player has a large bounty, then sure, get the police to setup sweeps and try to interdict the bad guy in planned ambushes, but do it sensibly, not just some random pap like we have now

 

[EUS]

After the last 2 weeks of undermining in a FAS and Python, and the previous weeks of smuggling in both an Asp, Cobra and Python, I can safely say that the interdiction mini-game is heavily slanted in favour of the interdictor.
That combined with the NPC's magical abilities, makes for a broken game.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Happened to me today during smuggling mission from 17 Draconis. I arrived at the destination system and on my way to the relevant outpost I was inderdicted by a Cobra. I was in a Cobra myself too. Standard procedure - submit, boost, low wake out. Within 2-5 seconds from entering SC again the same NPC started interdicting me again. The same process repeated 6 times in a row. Not even once I was given a chance to fly away in SC, as a new i'diction started within seconds of entering SC again. His rank was Competent.

Simply ridiculous. If the NPC was of a higher rank - I could understand, as it would reflect the skill, reflex etc. I would be annoyed, but I'd think it was fair. Not with Competent rank though, not 6 times in a row, not within mere seconds after entering SC again.

In the end I High Wake'd out to another system, then jumped back and successfully delivered the cargo.

Well, it makes sense if the ship interdicting had a proper chance to succeed, like the first interdiction was causing proper damage to the shields so that after a 3rd or 4th interdiction it would have a chance to properly interdict and interact. But NPC's interdicting hardly (or not at all) scratching you and you fly off, that shouldn't cause them to retry. Trying soemthing pointless over and over again is making no sense even for the AI.

 

[KellyR]

No, don't get me wrong - I am not against this mechanics, I also think it's a good step and keeping that NPC persistent is great. It's just about his imaginary super-skills at the rank of Competent

Well, I've taken down Elite NPC's and I'm just at Novice. I really shouldn't have been able to take them down. They should have realized much sooner than they did that they can't win. Even Elites can lose. Some fights you just can't win no matter what. An Elite should be able to see that and respond to it. He is an Elite Pilot. He didn't get that ranking by being stupid. But a lot of times they keep fighting and only start spooling their frameshift when they are at about 4 or 5% hull. Since I'm in a python with Class 3 frag cannons and turreted beams, when they do that, they always go pop before the FSD engages.

 

[Cargobane]

I had to kill a clean NPC for a mission, which got me wanted. I played hop scotch about 3 times before I was able to hit a station to just pay the fine off.

The persistance of the NPC Cop was obviously Mission related, as even if I did a quick in/outx2 SC, if I waited just a minute, he popped into SC for an Inter, /boost-repeat

In this case, the constant Interdiction was completely valid and normal.

 

[CMDR_Amanath]

Player pirating needs a rethink, NPC interdicting needs a rethink.

In particular PP interdictions at times are crazy, and utterly pointless in most cases. The 400 cr you get *maybe* if you kill the ship, you typically dont get merits for it depending on the zone. Its also much more frequent than a pirate interdictions, but they also stack. You can be interdicted by a wing of PP ships, fighting them off barely then get interdicted another 10 times trying to get to a base - or u high wake out (hopefully it didnt bug out and it targets properly).

Pirating is incredibly hard and incredibly easy for others to avoid you. You cant even make a living pirating NPCs.

 

[Futuristic Kung Fu]

Player pirating needs a rethink, NPC interdicting needs a rethink.

In particular PP interdictions at times are crazy, and utterly pointless in most cases. The 400 cr you get *maybe* if you kill the ship, you typically dont get merits for it depending on the zone. Its also much more frequent than a pirate interdictions, but they also stack. You can be interdicted by a wing of PP ships, fighting them off barely then get interdicted another 10 times trying to get to a base - or u high wake out (hopefully it didnt bug out and it targets properly).

Pirating is incredibly hard and incredibly easy for others to avoid you. You cant even make a living pirating NPCs.

I agree with everything you said except the very last sentence... Because that implies I don't make a living.

 

[Gold Member]

I don't mind if an NPC would interdict constantly if they have a chance of defeating you. It's really, really stupid if a sidewinder has a death wish against a more powerful ship. There are multiple reasons why a weaker ship shouldn't constantly interdict a better one, unless you give the npc a name like "space troll". I mean even if it's an authority vessel, they got to be insane to interdict unless it's in a wing.

An NPC named 'Space Troll' really made me laugh. Tonight I was interdicted by a Sidey. 1 shot from 1 Beam from my vulture and his shields are gone along with around 20% of his hull.

My computer says 'Frameshift detected' and I see the little guy burning away. Oh no! I burn after him, line up and give him 2 beams (1 fixed, 1 gimballed) for the finish. Suicide Troll might be okay as a name too.