Yes PVP is unfair.

[Faybs]

Also, would be good idea that a murderer coul not claim any bounty from other player or NPC while there is a bounty on him.

Put them in a prison RES, in a hauler fitted with mining equipment and no FSD. When they've collected their bounty in minerals, they get their ship back. Mining should be a pretty good punishment for a PvPer, and it's got chain gang cred

 

[Junky Juke]

Without a profit differential security differential between systems is pointless, because all the traders would just stick to the most secure systems.

Yes. Problem is that actually elite universe does not incentivate traders to move along multi-jump traderoutes, because there is not a regional economy. You can simply stick to a A-B single jump trade route and forget about everithing. The only long distance trading is rares trading. Infact piracy develops mostly around rare trade routes.

 

[MiiC]

Put them in a prison RES, in a hauler fitted with mining equipment and no FSD. When they've collected their bounty in minerals, they get their ship back.

hummm love the idea ^^

 

[Shanaeri]

Surely the easiest way to resolve this is to remove the insurance rebuy if you are killed by another player. Traders will still lose their cargo, explorers their data and the killers would still get the wanted/bounty on them.

By far the biggest reason for combat logging or staying in solo is the rebuy cost. Remove that from player kills and you sort two birds out with one patch.

 

[Cosmos]

Also, would be good idea that a murderer coul not claim any bounty from other player or NPC while there is a bounty on him.

Its frusrtating to point this out for the billionth time but no one gets murdered.. We spawn at the last station, with the escape pod and return being glossed over.

 

[Kowals]

80% of this thread isn't about PVP, it is about griefing. How do we stop that? we have 2 solutions:

1- EVE ONLINE style: Implement a "Concord-like" police for some sectors (starting sectors, Sol, Powerplay Hubs... you name it). You shoot someone? good luck with the Concordooken! you'll get blown up to bits (and maybe an extra fee for being naughty). Something like shooting inside an orbital station...
2- Being WANTED and claiming a bounty doesn't give you the reward, it only substracts your own bounty (think of it as a "social service payment"). Once you are clean, you can start earning and claiming your bounties again.

We can't deny the players the oportunity to become "pirates" if they so desire, but that doesn't mean we can't enforce policies against those who try to abuse new (or harmless) players. Traders are (and should be) exposed to pirate attacks, but being completely overrun is maybe too much.

Sure, you can always try to trade in an Eagle to confuse the enemy, or try to play with some heavy armored friends with loads of guns "a la bodyguard" style. But a lone trader in his beefiest hauler has nothing to do against an slightly smaller pirate (given equal pilot skills and similar loadout value ofc)

TL;DR: Watch how EVE Online "solved" this problem, and copy the most interesting bits of it

 

[Lheim]

Its frusrtating to point this out for the billionth time but no one gets murdered.. We spawn at the last station, with the escape pod and return being glossed over.

I realize that in our judicial system, attempted murder gets treated very differently from actual murder - but there's a sound arguable case that it ought not be treated differently. Perhaps especially in a society that hands out the death penalty for parking violations..

 

[Faybs]

hummm love the idea ^^

Space chain gang

 

[Robert Maynard]

The bleeding issue this raises of course is solo and pg. If we are to alter the game in such a fashion doesn't it stand that the current ways to avoid such stuff should be removed?

There is a thread dedicated to just that topic. It would be a shame if this thread also became bogged down in that debate.

 

[The Chairmaker]

I would be concerned about possible exploit were newbie suicide squads deliberately seek out and ram high level ships in high sec systems. They would then potentially get innocent commanders banished from large sections of the galaxy, as these innocent commanders would incur bounties for destroying the freewinders.

There is nothing to stop experienced players from picking up a second account in a sale for say £10 and then taking out numerous newbies who would not possess the flying skill of said experienced pilots and then basically getting away with it.

I am in favour of the galaxy mechanics responding more assertively to negative player behaviour to help make the galaxy more alive.

For example players with large volumes of fines gained over a set period should see things like speed limiters temporarily applied by authorities, to disable speed boost as a result of past speeding and colliding with, but not destroying ships. This would of course not apply in anarchies were anything goes.
Similarly smugglers who get scanned and caught a number of times should find that they are blocked from getting high reward smuggling missions, and ultimately any smuggling mission for a while if they are extremely bad. Those that are excellent however should get smuggling missions thrown their way like confetti at a wedding.

With regard to serial killers and murderers, I think that the game needs to reflect in some way that individuals growing notoriety.
I therefore believe that players with high bounty levels, especially for player killing should induce a mechanic whereby they are in effect on a watch list by those systems.
By that I mean that if a known killer ( eg 1 million cred+ in bounties, 10+ player murders) enters a high sec system and interdicts someone, security services immediately respond in force, eg Federal assault ship and two vipers dropping out of the wake to protect the potential victim. If the criminal player destroys the players ship and or the npc ships they are instantly classed as OUTLAW by that system and are kill on sight for any station, players and NPCs in said system without repercussion. If this continues across a particular major factions area of control then players may find they have become OUTLAWS with the entire federation, Empire or Alliance.

NB: OUTLAW I would propose as a separate category to Wanted to help differentiate between the really bad apples and those that have strayed out of bounds on occasion. Once a player earns outlaw status within a major faction they can expect very hot receptions if they enter any system controlled by said major factions eg Empire, Federation, Alliance.

This then generates an interesting dynamic in that Independent systems may have high security, but the Outlaw status would only apply in that system. So better to murder in a high sec independent than a system aligned to a major power.
Also while the killer should find a hostile reception in systems with a legal system, In Anarchies they may find their notoriety means they get offered the odd special mission that is only available to such players. Who knows maybe there is a psychotic crafting engineer who will only give killers a special gift. This then makes serial killing a difficult but viable player option.

The speed and level of response should reflect the systems security level so for example a low sec system may have a single Eagle drop out of supercruise to intercept the known criminal. Mediums two vipers and high would be say a Clipper and two vipers. A low sec might only drop after 30 seconds, medium 15 seconds and high 5 seconds.

 

[Cosmos]

There is a thread dedicated to just that topic. It would be a shame if this thread also became bogged down in that debate.

Its a shame you abuse your position as moderator to promote your own views. Ultimately these things are linked and whilst Im not trying to derail the thread I think its fair to make the point. :/

edit: you've also selectively cherry picked one paragraph from my whole post to promote your own agenda. What I said was if these things are in place then the solo and pg system needs to be reviewed.
What is your problem with me?

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Hello Commander nrage!

No ETA or guarantees but:

Hopefully at some point we will get interstellar bounties back!

We are also looking at making system security more important in terms of ship population breakdown, especially in super cruise (the goal to make the extremes of the scale well, more extreme ). This could also include response times.

This would be a very welcome addition!

But please remember the other side of the coin: as well as more extreme risk, low-security systems should have more profit than high security ones for trading/missions/bounty hunting etc.

Similarly, I'm fine with crime/piracy being harder: but it should be more profitable at the same time.

Risk should be balanced by reward, and vice versa

 

[Elan]

Hello Commanders!

Currently there is no real difference between crime against AI and crime against humans.

Do folk think that additional, relatively severe in-game penalties for illegal ship destruction where there was a large disparity between rank/power of murderer to victim would be a worthwhile thing?

This has always been the main issue of unsolicited PvP. The current mechanics in no way lived up to those 1st suggested in the DDF which was entirely due to the insistence that players and AI should be treated the same in regard to crime.

I'm perfectly fine with players choosing to murder other players, but the response from the game should be extreme.


If a Pirate interdicts and robs a Trader, no issue.

If a Pirate interdicts and robs a Trader, then murders him = Consequences.

A CMDR interdicts and murders someone for "teh lolz" = Extreme Consequences.


I've got to add that I think player rank / skill disparity should have no bearing on this.

 

[Faybs]

Its a shame you use your position as moderator to promote your own views. Ultimately these things are linked and whilst Im not trying to derail the thread I think its fair to make the point. :/

They are two separate issues. The answer to "how do we deal with crime in game?" should not involve switching game modes.

 

[joppe_k]

Hello Commanders!

Usual caveat: no guarantee, no ETA! This is just another thought experiment.

A quick question regarding player-versus-player (not AI) in open:

Currently there is no real difference between crime against AI and crime against humans.

Do folk think that additional, relatively severe in-game penalties for illegal ship destruction where there was a large disparity between rank/power of murderer to victim would be a worthwhile thing?

As an example suggestion: a high combat rank player in a combat capable ship boils a low combat rank player in a trade vessel. In addition to a bounty, the murderer is unable to dock at high security systems and suffers an increased insurance premium excess for an amount of time.

Continued offences of this nature increase and prolong the punitive measures.

Would a system like this help reconcile the two factions of the PVP and PVE, or would it not really address the issue?

Thoughts?

It's an interesting thought and it would probably be reasonably effective at curbing abusive player behavior. It is otherwise difficult to maintain some sort of "laws" in a computer game where there are relatively few consequences of your actions. However, I do feel that it's a bit of a shame to have to resort to "punitive methods" since that basically reduces the viable ways of playing (and experiencing the game). It would be better if a player driven game mechanic could be introduced to regulate abusive behavior. Such a mechanic would then give us _more_ ways to play the game and enrichen the game experience.

Like surely many other have before, I'm thinking of a working player driven bounty hunting mechanic. For example:

* A bounty for killing another player would be given to a pirate if he kills another player that has "report crimes against me" toggled on.
* The player killing bounty would be distinct from other type of fines/bounties that the pirate may have from other types of game play. The player killing bounty can not be paid off, and the only way to get rid of it is if another player (a bounty hunter) claims it by killing the pirate.
* The player killing bounty added to a pirate would be 90% of the actual financial damage caused to the victim. In almost all circumstances this will be the insurance cost that the victim had to pay out of his credit balance for the re-buy. If the victim jumps into a better ship and kills the pirate in return, he can in fact recoup some of his financial loss by "taking revenge".
* When a bounty hunter kills a pirate with a player killing bounty on his head, the bounty hunter will be paid 90% of the actual financial damage caused to the pirate out of the available bounty that the pirate has accumulated. The bounty will then be reduced with the amount paid out to the bounty hunter. In almost all circumstances the financial damage taken will be the insurance cost that the pirate had to pay out of his credit balance for the re-buy.
* Ultimately, one can look at it as if the financial loss of the victim (money destroyed in game) has been transferred to the pirate, and awarded to the bounty hunter. You can say that the rebuy cost of the victims finance the bounty hunter profession.

A few other things to take note of:
* A couple of pirate players with bounties can not profit by claiming the bounties of each other, since the payout is 90% of the re-buy cost of the other pirate. The two pirates would together have less money after claiming their respective bounties than they had before. (the 90% payout modifier is to make this scenario even less worth-while)
* A pirate with a player killing bounty on his head can not turn on "report crimes against me" until his bounties are cleared and he is no longer wanted. He is fair game for anyone until all of the bounty has been collected.

There are probably additional points that would have to be dealt with to make this a well-functioning game mechanic, but IF those could be solved, I believe the game would greatly benefit from it. It would be actual player-driven bounty hunting, and that is a cool thing.

 

[Cosmos]

They are two separate issues. The answer to "how do we deal with crime in game?" should not involve switching game modes.

The main reason why the modes exist is to address the issue of 'griefing'. David Braben has stated this many times.. I'm not going to be brow beaten to not raising the point and no, they are not seperate issues. Nice try

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Put them in a prison RES, in a hauler fitted with mining equipment and no FSD. When they've collected their bounty in minerals, they get their ship back. Mining should be a pretty good punishment for a PvPer, and it's got chain gang cred

In a depleted rocky ring, paying their bounty off in bauxite. And they aren't allowed limpets. Also, if their hauler gets damaged or pirated, any repairs or insurance are added to their bounty.

 

[shambles1980]

Surely the easiest way to resolve this is to remove the insurance rebuy if you are killed by another player. Traders will still lose their cargo, explorers their data and the killers would still get the wanted/bounty on them.

By far the biggest reason for combat logging or staying in solo is the rebuy cost. Remove that from player kills and you sort two birds out with one patch.

i have listed several reasons why this wont work in multiple threads including this one.

 

[Elan]

Similarly, I'm fine with crime/piracy being harder: but it should be more profitable at the same time.

Risk should be balanced by reward, and vice versa

A pirate conducting his trade in the correct manner would not risk such sanctions suggested by Sandro.

A pirate that murders his prey would find his life a little more "complicated" I guess.

 

[_Dastardly_]

The main reason why the modes exist is to address the issue of 'griefing'. David Braben has stated this many times.. I'm not going to be brow beaten to not raising the point and no, they are not seperate issues. Nice try

Theres a difference between allowing people to choose a different mode and effectively forcing them out by having game mechanics that are unbalanced in favour of any group. Being able to murder (for example) traders with impunity , forces them out of open which is the area where the majority of players are. Open is not pvp players mode.