Future DLC?

[TerranAmbassador]

I hope not, unless those 'lite' versions are also optional. One of the more concrete reasons I (and more than likely a few others) personally am not going to purchase the avatars expansion is because I don't want to deal with things like my ship getting boarded.

Putting that in the base game, but at a 'lower resolution', kind of defeats the purpose of making the expansions optional in the first place.

 

[SAB380]

There doesn't need to be in game explanations.
Trying to do things they haven't paid for should just result in a 'buy now!' Link appearing if they want to proceed.

 

[rlr149]

I hope not, unless those 'lite' versions are also optional. One of the more concrete reasons I (and more than likely a few others) personally am not going to purchase the avatars expansion is because I don't want to deal with things like my ship getting boarded.

Putting that in the base game, but at a 'lower resolution', kind of defeats the purpose of making the expansions optional in the first place.

you had to have them if playing missions requiring those assets, if you chose not to get them then you didn't play with people using those assets in missions who did get them.

ARMA players are kind of 'on the same page' though, they intend to play the same game together. they're not expecting to play and get some magic shield that stops a particular type of gameplay they don't like.

 

[Phaedra]

Trying to do things they haven't paid for should just result in a 'buy now!' Link appearing if they want to proceed.

I hope it doesn't go that far (a bit too Star Citizen for my taste). A simple message from your flight computer that you ship isn't yet configured for planetary landings (or whatever) would suffice.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

you had to have them if playing missions requiring those assets, if you chose not to get them then you didn't play with people using those assets in missions who did get them.

Wait. You mean people who didn't purchase the expansions didn't have access to the content that they contained? What a wacky idea!

The expansions are going to be optional and will not be required to play the game. That is an established fact. Those who do not purchase them will not get access to the associated content. That means those with a factory-fresh vanilla install will not be able to land on planets, or get out of their pilot's seat, or whatever other expansions come into being down the line, unless they purchase the associated expansion.

The implication being that this is two-way. Others will not be able to interact with them using that content. I can't board you, but you can't board me either, and you can't take me big-game hunting either.

If you and I both have the planetary landing expansions, but only you have the avatars expansion, the most likely scenario is that, were we both to be in the same location, I would not be placed in the same instance as you. You could not board my ship for a spot of tea, and I would be similarly restricted from bombing you into oblivion from the air.

It would not matter because the game would not put us in a position where it could.

A big draw of the game is being able to play how you want. This philosophy is present in everything from groups system, which will allow players to decide who they want to play with, or if they even want to play with other players at all, to Frontier Developments allowing players to decide how much or how little of the game and universe they want to experience with its two optional expansions.

ARMA players are kind of 'on the same page' though, they intend to play the same game together. they're not expecting to play and get some magic shield that stops a particular type of gameplay they don't like.

To use Battlefield 3 as an example, I can't use the content in the Back to Karkand expansion DLC, as I have not purchased it, nor can I interact with someone using it. But they can't interact with me either; no having your cake and eating it too. Even if I had no interest in that expansion's content, it wouldn't matter because I simply can't access it

The game does not expect its players to "be on the same page", and does not treat them like they are. Instead, it only matches together players who both have access to similar content.

It is the same principle here.

 

[Mobius]

Wait. You mean people who didn't purchase the expansions didn't have access to the content that they contained? What a wacky idea!

The expansions are going to be optional and will not be required to play the game. That is an established fact. Those who do not purchase them will not get access to the associated content. That means those with a factory-fresh vanilla install will not be able to land on planets, or get out of their pilot's seat, or whatever other expansions come into being down the line, unless they purchase the associated expansion.

The implication being that this is two-way. Others will not be able to interact with them using that content. I can't board you, but you can't board me either, and you can't take me big-game hunting either.

If you and I both have the planetary landing expansions, but only you have the avatars expansion, the most likely scenario is that, were we both to be in the same location, I would not be placed in the same instance as you. You could not board my ship for a spot of tea, and I would be similarly restricted from bombing you into oblivion from the air.

It would not matter because the game would not put us in a position where it could.

A big draw of the game is being able to play how you want. This philosophy is present in everything from groups system, which will allow players to decide who they want to play with, or if they even want to play with other players at all, to Frontier Developments allowing players to decide how much or how little of the game and universe they want to experience with its two optional expansions.



To use Battlefield 3 as an example, I can't use the content in the Back to Karkand expansion DLC, as I have not purchased it, nor can I interact with someone using it. But they can't interact with me either; no having your cake and eating it too. Even if I had no interest in that expansion's content, it wouldn't matter because I simply can't access it

The game does not expect its players to "be on the same page", and does not treat them like they are. Instead, it only matches together players who both have access to similar content.

It is the same principle here.

I would think that this is the sort of game that everyone would get the expansions for. I imagine that they will be pretty cheap to pick up, say £9.99 minimum. and even then if people don't want to buy into the upgrades other players will still be able to interact with them, just that they wont be able to interact back.

some expansions will be straight forward to implement, planetary landing, the update would retrofit your ship with the mods to do so while those who havnt brought the update cant join in,

the other thing is that its now popular to by a season pass for games that have future expansions ,

 

[SnowGhost]

The expansions are going to be optional and will not be required to play the game. That is an established fact. Those who do not purchase them will not get access to the associated content.

For how long?

It's entirely reasonable in 4 years time, for Frontier to expect everyone has the ability to land on planets and get out and do stuff.

So, at what point does the Planetary landing update go from optional to non optional?

At what point in time does the planetary landing update just become part of the game that you buy? Eventually, when you comein as a newbie buying Elite you get plantary landings as part of the package.


One solution is to slowly drive the price of addons down to the point where the is no economic sense in not buyig them.

 

[ste]

The implication being that this is two-way. Others will not be able to interact with them using that content. I can't board you, but you can't board me either, and you can't take me big-game hunting either.

To use Battlefield 3 as an example, I can't use the content in the Back to Karkand expansion DLC, as I have not purchased it, nor can I interact with someone using it. But they can't interact with me either; no having your cake and eating it too. Even if I had no interest in that expansion's content, it wouldn't matter because I simply can't access it

The game does not expect its players to "be on the same page", and does not treat them like they are. Instead, it only matches together players who both have access to similar content.

It is the same principle here.

So it will split the community. Which is never a good thing.

BF3 isnt really a good example because its not a single universe. Its playing a single map or not playing it, and that still splits the community. Not been able to join map rotations because your missing one or 2 of the maps.

It would be like a map on BF3 but parts of the maps have an invisible wall that stops you entering part of it or interacting with, or being able to see anything whats on the other side. A lift that only DLC members can go up, but they cant really put anything too game changing at the top of the lift as the players down below still need to be able to play the game unaffected.

They need to design DLC that has no noticeable effects on the non DLC members. It will need to be designed in a way so it doesnt give any advantage over non DLC or it will be considered pay to win and forcing people to buy it. It will be pretty limited if they follow have to follow those rules.

Its a dilemma I'm wondering how they are going to solve and I'm just hoping that it doesnt impact or restrict whats possible for expansions.

It will be interesting to see how it works as like I said I never experience a game like this, a MP open world with DLC type game. Especially one that would be aiming for no loading screens.

Is there a game currently with online MP, open world, with DLC and none DLC playing together with no loading screens?

 

[TerranAmbassador]

So it will split the community. Which is never a good thing.

They've already done that with the groups system. You don't even have to play online at all if you don't want to.

BF3 isnt really a good example because its not a single universe. Its playing a single map or not playing it, and that still splits the community. Not been able to join map rotations because your missing one or 2 of the maps.

Neither is ED. What ED is is multiple parallel universes that are synchronized via a central server which will, depending on you preferences, sometimes interact.

That's why someone can play solo, truly solo, as in "never see another player ever" solo, but still get the evolving galaxy. A private group is just letting a select number of other players' universes interact with yours.

With the all group, the only limit is the matchmaker and whatever parameters (which can include the presence or absence of expansions) govern its decisions.

 

[SAB380]

For how long?

It's entirely reasonable in 4 years time, for Frontier to expect everyone has the ability to land on planets and get out and do stuff.

So, at what point does the Planetary landing update go from optional to non optional?

At what point in time does the planetary landing update just become part of the game that you buy? Eventually, when you comein as a newbie buying Elite you get plantary landings as part of the package.


One solution is to slowly drive the price of addons down to the point where the is no economic sense in not buyig them.

More likely the price of the main game will drive down in the years post launch and then each expansion will be at a set price.

....and then 5 years later the planetary and EVA expansions are just packaged up into the main game.

 

[kilvenny]

I think FD have been very clever in their fundamental design. The first expansion will be the planetary landing. At the moment you approach a planet and you burn up. With the planetary landing module you will not burn up. The moment you move to that point I would presume you change instance. The interesting thing is what the player without the expansion sees, I imagine there will be enough visible to make the player realize there is something on the planet.

For walking around expansion on a planet you would need the SPL. For walking around on a space station or space walking you would be able to get out of your seat, without it you are stuck, but you would not need the SPL (although FD might make it mandatory)

For the missions - all you need is set of flags. My understanding is there will be lots of missions available not just the few we have seen in previous games and I would expect you just will not see those missions.

The whole concept of ED is about seamless movement where nothing breaks the immersion and I expect the expansions to do the same

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The bf3 karkand map is a good eg of why this is a tough balancing act. I have it. It came free with my pre order and yet I have not once played on it as none of the guys I played with have it. Hopefully FD will get around it. It may be easier in ED as it will largely be single player

 

[Leonick]

The bf3 karkand map is a good eg of why this is a tough balancing act. I have it. It came free with my pre order and yet I have not once played on it as none of the guys I played with have it. Hopefully FD will get around it. It may be easier in ED as it will largely be single player

That is indeed a problem in far too many many games. In Battlefield you basically have to go to a DLC/expansion only server to get to play them but there are fewer of those servers and always less populated. Same for many of the Halo games where you'd never see a DLC map in the regular playlists (since most people didn't get them), you'd have to go to a special DLC playlist instead of just picking team deathmatch or such.

Shouldn't be quite as big an issue for Elite though, being a sandbox and no an arena shooter. You don't need other people to have the expansions for your to play them. I also suspect the people Elite will attract are more likely to want to expand their sandbox than the average FPS player wants more arenas.

 

[rlr149]

Wait. You mean people who didn't purchase the expansions didn't have access to the content that they contained? What a wacky idea!

people who didn't purchase them did have access though, just uglier access.

The expansions are going to be optional and will not be required to play the game. That is an established fact. Those who do not purchase them will not get access to the associated content. That means those with a factory-fresh vanilla install will not be able to land on planets, or get out of their pilot's seat, or whatever other expansions come into being down the line, unless they purchase the associated expansion.

The implication being that this is two-way. Others will not be able to interact with them using that content. I can't board you, but you can't board me either, and you can't take me big-game hunting either.

If you and I both have the planetary landing expansions, but only you have the avatars expansion, the most likely scenario is that, were we both to be in the same location, I would not be placed in the same instance as you. You could not board my ship for a spot of tea, and I would be similarly restricted from bombing you into oblivion from the air.

It would not matter because the game would not put us in a position where it could.

and if many do get the expansion, will you be moaning that your game is less populated?

A big draw of the game is being able to play how you want. This philosophy is present in everything from groups system, which will allow players to decide who they want to play with, or if they even want to play with other players at all, to Frontier Developments allowing players to decide how much or how little of the game and universe they want to experience with its two optional expansions.

if i can't interact with you as with ANY other entity ingame(npc's/players) then i don't really see much reason to have you in the game at all.

To use Battlefield 3 as an example, I can't use the content in the Back to Karkand expansion DLC, as I have not purchased it, nor can I interact with someone using it. But they can't interact with me either; no having your cake and eating it too. Even if I had no interest in that expansion's content, it wouldn't matter because I simply can't access it

The game does not expect its players to "be on the same page", and does not treat them like they are. Instead, it only matches together players who both have access to similar content.

It is the same principle here.

a multiplayer game should have the players on the same page, you play the same rules as everyone or you don't play with us, full stop.(or cheat).
i see this as a more planetside1-like, 'core combat' gave those who bought it BFR's which then played in the main game with those who didn't get the expansion. resentment arises over P2W/unfairness etc etc.
which now leaves FD with a task of creating a meaningful expansion that doesn't bring anything into the 'launch' game as you still get to interact with us.

 

[Calebe]

If I recall correctly they are roping off a part of the galaxy for future expansions. So in the first release there are places no one will be able to travel to. Lets say they reserve oh 200,000,000 stars. I picked a large number because the amount left is still so huge no one will be able to visit them all in one life time or 2 or 3. In other words it is a drop in the bucket. No matter what happens you will never run out of places you never visited.

So how to make it believable no one could go there before? I think the easiest way is to make the jump distance to multiple access points just out of reach of the most powerful hyper space jump engines available. They make the expansion, then if you buy or already own it, you now get a free hyperspace engine upgrade that allows you to get that extra distance to reach that new area of space. Other will miss out, but it is because they don't have the clearances to buy the new model jump engine to reach it. It might seem a simple solution but it works. You just can't reach the closest star, you run out of fuel and are stuck in a vast nothingness. People with the expansion can now reach further on a full fuel load and can make the nearest star that now has a space station.

I used that example as it was said areas will be roped off, just no need to rope them off artificially, just make the distance to great for current in game technology. For planetary landings, unless you have the upgrade your ship won't have the required heat shield to enter a planets atmosphere. Or whatever they come up required to land anywhere but a space station.

In other games what they do. If you don't have the expansion, you just can't access those area's. You hit an invisible wall, for instance using Everquest as an example. You don't have the expansion you don't get to go there. You have no access to the new weapons, armor, equipment, or levels. In other words those with it become way more powerful and you fall behind. You buy the new expansion or lose out. What they eventually did was, no matter how many expansions released if you buy the latest you get all the previous ones included. They set their usual expansion price in the beginning at $49.95 for the first which doubles the game content size. New expansions have been 14 zones or so and cost $39.95 as so much smaller in scope and size. In any event FD may do the same. Skip expansion pack one, and buy the 2nd? You get both, though you have missed out for a year on the 1st expansion pack. eventually new boxed releases will contain all the expansions up to that time as would be the download version.

So that could be one way how they handle it. Buy no expansion packs and you have the initial game and that is it. Will most people move to the new area's with upgraded content? Probably on opening day of that content, as they will be excited to see what it contains. Why miss out? Just buy the expansion pack now.

Calebe

 

[rlr149]

@Calebe
considering ships may well be steal-able at some point, how do you stop a non expansion owning person stealing an upgraded ship and gaining access to the new content?
we can't suggest the pilot NEEDS a licence and the hyperdrive 'knows' and just wont work without it............ or we can but it would be lame.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

people who didn't purchase them did have access though, just uglier access.

And what about the people who were uninterested in one or more DLCs, were they ever forced into interacting with them anyway?

and if many do get the expansion, will you be moaning that your game is less populated?

Me? No. I've had more than a year to come to terms with the fact that it could happen. In fact, in my very first post EVER on this forum, I mention this:

I'm fine with being segregated from everyone who does want to experience walking, so long as I don't have to (I'm assuming here that it would tie into that weird group system you guys have planned).

Click to see the relevant post.

I wouldn't be happy about it, by any means, but I've spent my entire ED career (such as it is at this point) acknowledging it as a possibility, and it's a scenario that I am perfectly willing to live with.

If nothing else, I'm sure I could find people who were willing to group up with me and limit their avatar-based interactions with me. It's a very big community already. I'm sure there are two or three.

if i can't interact with you as with ANY other entity ingame(npc's/players) then i don't really see much reason to have you in the game at all.

As I said above, I am more than prepared for the possibility of being segregated if it comes to that; though I'd probably block you anyway before it came to that. Did I mention that's possible? You can block other players so that you will never EVER be matchmade with them...kind of like BF3, actually.

Or was that a "**** off, and don't come back" hidden behind a wall of text?

a multiplayer game should have the players on the same page, you play the same rules as everyone or you don't play with us, full stop.(or cheat).
i see this as a more planetside1-like, 'core combat' gave those who bought it BFR's which then played in the main game with those who didn't get the expansion. resentment arises over P2W/unfairness etc etc.
which now leaves FD with a task of creating a meaningful expansion that doesn't bring anything into the 'launch' game as you still get to interact with us.

And if the rules of your universe are similar to the rules of my universe, then we get to interact. If not, we'll probably never even know the other person is there, and continue on in our respective instances, completely oblivious.

The game simply wouldn't tell you I was there (just like, say, if I was playing solo online or in a private group [did I mention those are possible too?]) and vice-versa. Oh, we'd probably affect each other indirectly; through the market, certainly, but it's possible we might one day decide to run the same blockade over the same planet, contributing to the overall question of whether the blockade is broken or not for EVERYONE.

But we, personally, will never see hide nor hair of the other, never trade, never duel. For ever and ever to the end of time (or the game, whichever comes first).

Why miss out? Just buy the expansion pack now.

You can't miss out on what you never intended to use.

 

[Lobstris]

In one of the fiction diaries, doesn't Michael Brookes confirm that some areas of the galaxy WILL be 'walled off' in the initial release, so that systems within them can have details from the various author's writings tied in at a later date?

Also I would imagine that one of the DLCs would be dealing with the re-re-appearance of everyone's favourite insectoid race.

Finally, how about a DLC adding some of the wacky previous legends from the other Elite games, including: wormhole travel, space dredgers, generation ships, asteroid rock hermits etc.?

 

[ste]

In one of the fiction diaries, doesn't Michael Brookes confirm that some areas of the galaxy WILL be 'walled off' in the initial release, so that systems within them can have details from the various author's writings tied in at a later date?

Also I would imagine that one of the DLCs would be dealing with the re-re-appearance of everyone's favourite insectoid race.

Finally, how about a DLC adding some of the wacky previous legends from the other Elite games, including: wormhole travel, space dredgers, generation ships, asteroid rock hermits etc.?

I think they are coming at launch, and either way I would think they would be available to everyone. Maybe another race might be DLC related. But if they are aggressive and attacking then the non DLC are getting an easier ride. It could be like pay to lose

 

[rlr149]

And what about the people who were uninterested in one or more DLCs, were they ever forced into interacting with them anyway?



Me? No. I've had more than a year to come to terms with the fact that it could happen. In fact, in my very first post EVER on this forum, I mention this:

Click to see the relevant post.

I wouldn't be happy about it, by any means, but I've spent my entire ED career (such as it is at this point) acknowledging it as a possibility, and it's a scenario that I am perfectly willing to live with.

If nothing else, I'm sure I could find people who were willing to group up with me and limit their avatar-based interactions with me. It's a very big community already. I'm sure there are two or three.



As I said above, I am more than prepared for the possibility of being segregated if it comes to that; though I'd probably block you anyway before it came to that. Did I mention that's possible? You can block other players so that you will never EVER be matchmade with them...kind of like BF3, actually.

Or was that a "**** off, and don't come back" hidden behind a wall of text?



And if the rules of your universe are similar to the rules of my universe, then we get to interact. If not, we'll probably never even know the other person is there, and continue on in our respective instances, completely oblivious.

The game simply wouldn't tell you I was there (just like, say, if I was playing solo online or in a private group [did I mention those are possible too?]) and vice-versa. Oh, we'd probably affect each other indirectly; through the market, certainly, but it's possible we might one day decide to run the same blockade over the same planet, contributing to the overall question of whether the blockade is broken or not for EVERYONE.

But we, personally, will never see hide nor hair of the other, never trade, never duel. For ever and ever to the end of time (or the game, whichever comes first).



You can't miss out on what you never intended to use.

cool, as long as you're ok with being segregated.
however, how can you justify 'ghosting' past dangers others with expansions HAVE to face whilst being rewarded from the same market?
in the shared shard environment that is.