General / Off-Topic Scotland suddenly becomes even more expensive.

[beelbeebub]

Actually, IIRC the oil to income at the time of independence would essentially replace the block grant.

That is to say, if the new iScot taxed and spent exactly as they had before the split they would have no deficit.

However, as iScot would have been generally more left with higher spending it's probable that, even "cutting the unnecessary UK related spending" i.e. Trident, that iScot spend would if not go up, stay flat.

If iScot taxes stayed roughly similar to when the split happened then iScot would be dependent on oil in the $100 range to not run a deficit (or raise taxes or cut spending).

Of course, running a deficit is not the end of the world, most of the oil countries are doing just that right now, but long term low oil prices would eventually require an adjustment from iScot as oil would make up a not insignificant part of the gov revenue.

 

[Yaffle]

That nonsense was thoroughly debunked during our independence referendum campaign.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c4928a7e-b9ea-11e5-a7cc-280dfe875e28.html

Not quite.

For the record, and full disclosure, I'd not want Scotland to go as I do believe the four countries are more resilient together, we can support each other as this sort of thing happens.

ETA - I think the basic issue is the same as the EU referendum. Claims will be thoroughly debunked by the side to which they are adverse, and thoroughly proven by the side which can make capital from them. I am sure the truth lies between, but us humans tend to believe the version that sits with our own prejudices.

 

[beelbeebub]

Yeah, we humans tend to do that.

The economy argument for iScot was finely balanced, it was impossible to say if iScot would be worse off or not.

In the absence of a solid better or worse off argument, it came down to a gut feeling. Do you believe the future is together or apart.

The same thing is happening with Brexit. We may be better or worse off, we may be more or less secure who can say. The decision will be down to whether or not you think nationalism is a route we wish to go down.

 

[Lianachan]

The economy argument for iScot was finely balanced, it was impossible to say if iScot would be worse off or not.

Not really, it's pretty clear.

 

[Yaffle]

Not really, it's pretty clear.

No, really, it's not - http://www.economist.com/news/leade...istake-scotland-and-tragedy-country-it-leaves

I refer you to my comment earlier. We don't know, and can't know. Each side will always say it is correct and the other is wrong. I cannot say who is correct, but I know both our links are wrong to some degree.

 

[Surfinjo]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c4928a7e-b9ea-11e5-a7cc-280dfe875e28.html

Not quite.

For the record, and full disclosure, I'd not want Scotland to go as I do believe the four countries are more resilient together, we can support each other as this sort of thing happens.

ETA - I think the basic issue is the same as the EU referendum. Claims will be thoroughly debunked by the side to which they are adverse, and thoroughly proven by the side which can make capital from them. I am sure the truth lies between, but us humans tend to believe the version that sits with our own prejudices.

The old argument that Scotland is incapable of running its own economy whicle numerous other, smaller, less diverse states do just fine.

Anyway, your point:

I do believe the four countries are more resilient together, we can support each other as this sort of thing happens.

Would be fine if it were true.

Sadly, the realities of the UK are rather more unpleasant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lives-refusing-let-brass-order-vital-kit.html

It isn't about Scotland. It's about all of us ridding ourselves of the UK.

The UK is the parasite.

Once it's gone, the various states of these islands can form whatever friendships and agreements they choose. Each of these will be governed by the individual governments of each state.

 

[jabokai]

The UK is the parasite.

Geez, I've rarely read a bigger pile of bile and tripe in one go than your collected opinions on Scotland/UK/EU - maybe the real solution is for you to go somewhere you actually like. I'd definitely vote for that!

 

[Lianachan]

Geez, I've rarely read a bigger pile of bile and tripe in one go than your collected opinions on Scotland/UK/EU - maybe the real solution is for you to go somewhere you actually like. I'd definitely vote for that!

Tried to do that, but we lost the referendum.

 

[jabokai]

Tried to do that, but we lost the referendum.

Yeah, and we'll never hear the end of it. Unfortunately, zero respect from "the 45" to the majority.

 

[Surfinjo]

Geez, I've rarely read a bigger pile of bile and tripe in one go than your collected opinions on Scotland/UK/EU - maybe the real solution is for you to go somewhere you actually like. I'd definitely vote for that!

I have lots of other opinions I'm sure you will hate just as much.

 

[jabokai]

I have lots of other opinions I'm sure you will hate just as much.

Possibly, but on this topic you come across as a bit of a tabloid nutter. Lots of rhetoric and Daily Mail style headlines totally cloud any serious points you have to make and just make moderate me rail against you, rather than be persuaded by you, or even willing to give any credence to your "arguments".

 

[Surfinjo]

Possibly, but on this topic you come across as a bit of a tabloid nutter. Lots of rhetoric and Daily Mail style headlines totally cloud any serious points you have to make and just make moderate me rail against you, rather than be persuaded by you, or even willing to give any credence to your "arguments".

I think these islands should restrict their military to actual defence issues and not get involved in destroying other parts of the world then plundering their stuff.

If that's tabloid then pass me the A3.

But thank you for your criticism. I shall treat it with the same selectivity that I hope you do to most things.

 

[jabokai]

Actually, yes "destroying other parts of the world then plundering their stuff" is exactly what a tabloid would write, well done.

You're right though, all nations of wealth and means should simply bury their heads in the sand when it comes to "other places" - great plan.

The Iraq thing was messed up, it doesn't mean everything is, get over it already.

 

[beelbeebub]

Easy now boys!

Surfinjo's negative opinion of the UK as am entity is well known and from what I can tell mostly based of it's military record.

Fair enough, I don't think anyone's going to argue Iraq and afghanistan were, in hindsight (or indeed, foresight) a sucess.

However, although his prescription is a little extreme for most (and he does bang on about it a bit ) he is always polite and well reasoned (albeit I don't always agree with his reasons!).

 

[Arry]

Oh yeah, and with Scotlands main source of income now at $30 per barrel and set to stay there or lower for years to come how long before Scotland would be in bail out territory. The Scottish economy simply isn't diverse enough.

Lets see how the public spending would be managed then.

At the same time, they are on there way to becoming energy independent by 2020, so don't laugh too much.

 

[jabokai]

he is always polite and well reasoned

I disagree. Using the language he does is not polite and reasoned at all. You can still say "and you're an idiot if you can't see that" without saying it.

 

[Lianachan]

At the same time, they are on there way to becoming energy independent by 2020, so don't laugh too much.

Indeed. Plus, the entire post is dripping with ignorance.

 

[Surfinjo]

It's kinda amusing that suggestions that Scotland is somehow incapable of functioning economically, outside the UK is somehow a reason for the rest of us to keep it here.

The obvious reality is, without the burden the the UK's endless ambition to the great again, we all stand to gain.

 

[Lianachan]

It's kinda amusing that suggestions that Scotland is somehow incapable of functioning economically, outside the UK is somehow a reason for the rest of us to keep it here.

The obvious reality is, without the burden the the UK's endless ambition to the great again, we all stand to gain.

Indeed. Also, quite a lot of revenue generated in Scotland doesn't appear as such due to our current status as part of the UK. Take our whisky industry, for example. £4.3 billion of exports, generating about £1 billion in tax - to the UK exchequer, so it doesn't count as part of taxes raised in Scotland.

 

[bootsam]

I'm Scottish and British and European. Scotland has always benefited from a superior educational system. Its a largely left leaning and social country, where fairness is important. England could learn from it here.

It was okay to take the bail out after the Darien affair from England. Thats when we sold ourselves. But hey, its much easier to bash the English than bash ourselves. We have and have always been the architects of our own destruction. Its written throughout our own history. Whilst we have often innovated, invented, discovered far above our weight, we have also kicked ourselves too. England isnt perfect but neither are we. We need each other. Both England and Scotland would be poorer but for our partnership together.

Together we ruled the world, then we gave it back and apologised. Any army in the world would cack itself if confronted by a red line full of english, scots, welsh and irish nutjobs. If we got our act together and worked in partnership again towards another common purpose nothing could stop us. Nothing. This goddamned little island is chocka with talent, creativity, inventiveness and humour. If we put our minds to getting to Mars, thered be an chippy there by 2020.