Should there be an 'Open' Player Vs Environment Option on the Login Screen
- Thread starter excalibus
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
<modhat off; tinfoil hat on>
You know - given the apparently immiscible nature of PvP and PvE players who inhabit the opposite ends of the spectrum, sometimes I do wonder if what you say is actually the case (apart from the vivisection for analysis, of course). Many games don't even try to accommodate both types in the same game world, preferring to give them their own separate worlds to inhabit (and not have to play together).
We'll see.
As you were!
<modhat on>
omg my tinfoil hat won't save me?
How can we tell, if we are, or are not part of the simulation? I swear, if you hold out two pills..
what if Mobius held the pills? which one would you choose? The PVP pill or the PVE pill?
I would be greedy and take both
Well I'd certainly use one. Joining a private group seems like a bit of a faff so having a clear supported option at login would be I assume far more used than joining mobius is.
it would be easier than joining a PG that is for sure and would be much more accessible than having to find a PG to join for new players
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
well after a month the poll has closed and the results are in
interesting statistic.... and whilst this forum is not the entire playerbase, I reckon (may well be wrong but just my thoughts) that the type of person who is likely to frequent fan based forums are statistically more likely to have an interest in competitive gaming than those who do not.
Truth is.... I voted yes for it, and still feel it should be an option, however over the last month I have kind of come to the conclusion i am not that bothered. I will carry on in mobius and if for what ever reason that comes to an end then, cest la vie, it was nice whilst it lasted I will just join a private group with my meat space friends..... not the biggest loss in the world.
but for xbox owners....................... well if I was one of those i would be VERY invested in a PvE mode.
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well after a month the poll has closed and the results are in
...and ultimately all it shows (IMHO) are people are not happy with the mechanics in OPEN. ie: Trolling is all but too easy and not penalised...
Come down like a ton of bricks on the mindless murder/destruction of a CMDR, and actually promote/offer/endorse consensual PvP for those interested via game mechanics. That would hopefully make OPEN a more interesting place to be, with those interested in PvP having more avenues to find it, and those not interested in it, more assured they will not encounter it.
I'd still argue even for the most dedicated PvE player, they would hopefully welcome the notion that if the game mechanics actually grow and deepen they could actually face the situation of turning up a station, and finding it under blockade (a very rare event in the bubble). In the distance they can see dozens of CMDRs fighting each other, trying to make/break/run the blockade. If they are not interested they need only fly away. If they however wish to try something a bit different... simply fly forwards...
Anyway, I fear all this discussion is for nothing. There's a "plan" and we're along for the ride
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
well after a month the poll has closed and the results are in
.... subject to usual caveats regarding eligibility of voters (i.e. no need to own the game to register on the forums); sample size in relation to the number of active forum members; sample size in relation to the total number of copies sold; likely lack of knowledge that the poll was running at all for the majority of players, etc..
My impression is that the average PvE player is actually a middle-of-the-road sort of player who enjoys PvP just fine, but wants control over whether there is going to be any PvP during any particular gaming session. Such a player would probably welcome situations like the one you describe.
The "most dedicated PvE player" won't because that's someone who, for whatever reason, doesn't want any PvP at all ever. I fall into that category myself, and I can tell you I would find that situation irritating. I wouldn't fly away, I'd just switch to solo or group and stay there forever. You can go on about the Richness and Depth of PvP all you want, but it's not going to impress me because that has nothing to do with why I don't PvP. I just. don't. want. PvP. If ED had not offered completely pvp-free options at launch then I would not have bought it.
Over a thousand people have voted, this is about as representative as we'll get short of a launcher-based poll.
So I hope people will be good sports and not try to explain away the outcome.
Wouldn't it be more interesting if rather than ducking to a "safer" option, if you instead actually had to weigh the situation up, and worse case decide, looks too dangerous, I'll just leave...
If the game does a reasonable job in all/most areas of allowing you to decide if you want to even engage in PvP missions, tasks, situations, and you can generally take their PvE counterparts if you wish, or worse case where you encounter a rarer situation (such as my blockade) where it's there in your face, and you can just fly away... How in truth is that a bad thing? Because the moment we're all playing in OPEN, and the game does a good enough job in offering us the experience we prefer (ie: we don't like PvE so it tries to keep is away from PvP), it opens up so many more opportunities for actual intelligent mechanics/game play IMHO.
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Do you not think there's a danger of coming to a conclusion, without understanding why maybe some people have actually selected options from a very polarised set of options? And if indeed other options/alternatives were offered some may have selected differently.
Before we had the debug camera we had polls such as, do you want an external view:-
- YES
- NO
- NO
It's little surprise the "NO" vote were quite high.
Had the poll been:-
- YES
- NO
- As long as when in external view you have no control over your ship, no HUD, and limited viewing speeds
- NO
- As long as when in external view you have no control over your ship, no HUD, and limited viewing speeds
...the results may of course have been very different.
See the issue with polarised polls without offering alternatives, and basing decisions on them? ie: If FD had gone with that approach we wouldn't have a debug camera for example...
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It was a simple question with a simple yes/no response. As far as polls go, it was well designed. Whether people want Open improved is a separate question.
Imagine for a moment we apply your reasoning to the upcoming referendum on the UK's EU membership. If the result is "Leave" and the politicians say, "Hang about, what people really meant was not leave, but change things..." I think there would be a bit of a hullaballoo.
I gave a simple and applicable example why such a polarised vote can miss an important alternative... Yes, have an external view? No, don't have an external view?... Well, in the end there was an all round better middle ground...
So likewise, I'd suggest simply looking at the game as it stands now and making a yes/no choice is not ideal. Instead we should consider what is pushing a lot of players away from OPEN, and see if instead a middle ground alternative exists such that many of those player can instead enjoy OPEN. If it's not possible, fine... But ignoring the cause is a bad move IMHO.
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A few points NielF I would like to address
Firstly to suggest a PVE only mode is a 'safer' option is a misnomer, if (as SJA jas mentioned in another thread) indeed the AI improvements expected in 2.1 come to fruition, then a PVE mode would be no less 'safe' than the current OPEN mode of play... And on that aspect, the current OPEN mode of play is not really any 'safer' than SOLO or GROUP apart from the 'startfing' systems where apparently it's grieferville...
To suggest otherwise comes across (to me at least) as some PVP arrogance honestly... suggesting somehow that group or solo is easier than the current open mode tells me there are serious perception problems (as well as other problems) with the current open mode of play...
Over 1,000 forum members voted on the poll, not an insignificant number of the total forum members is it really? Yes the forum poll results are not completely representative percentage wise of the total player base because for that to occur a forced player poll on the launcher would be needed and that in itself could have skewed votes due to some people not liking to be 'forced' to vote on something.
This discussion has also been 'open' to any suggestion for an important alternative, but so far no one has come forward with one, I know you are pushing for more PVP style missions in open play and I commend you for that and actually think some aspects of that idea have very good merit, how good an implementation could be coded for it I must confess I am unsure because that is nor my forte'
More to the point of my OP in this thread (and please consider this) is that there are a percentage of players that want zero PVP for equally valid and various reasons, for me personally, I would probably not even use a PVE only mode as I enjoy the current 'risk' in OPEN, but I can, not only empathise but comepletely accept and understand the various reasons why different people would prefer an OPEN PVE only mode...
I have never hidden this 'fact' this is not about my own preference for playing the game...
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Interesting results to the poll. Even if the results were 50/50 it does demonstrate a demand for both a PVP and a PVE mode/mechanic.
Whatever happens from the outcome of this poll, I do hope Frontier engineers a situation where PVE players can leave solo/private groups and enter some form of Open environment where they don't have to endure the actions of the few who get entertainment by making others miserable.
Whatever happens from the outcome of this poll, I do hope Frontier engineers a situation where PVE players can leave solo/private groups and enter some form of Open environment where they don't have to endure the actions of the few who get entertainment by making others miserable.