the station bandit last night

[Leo Sagan]

people need to relax a little.

Yup, no need to organize a witch hunt here. Paulo replied openly in this thread, I guess we should just discuss the topic of griefing like grown ups rather than pointing fingers.

We all know that if the game allows it, there will be griefing. The real question, maybe, is "to what extend ?".

I watched a vid in which D. Braben was saying that the anti-griefing in ED will be done by the bounty hunting system. Such a system exists in EVE Online and doesn't seem to work at all : does anyone know why it should work better in ED ?

There is also the idea of a "space police" of some sort, which seems pretty reliable but, obviously, this will only work in a tiny fraction of the universe.

On the other hand, with 200 billions stars (or is it 400 billions ?), how could you possibly be griefed once you are in deep space. I mean, what are the odds of finding someone to grief in there, why would a griefer even try, waiting endlessly for victims ?

 

[Paulo_B27]

So - what have we learnt?

So - Things appear to be getting heated. Lets all level with each other.

I've been playing devils advocate tonight for a bit of fun, and clearly this is an emotive subject, so I formally apologise. It was just a bit of fun.

Yes, I have killed players by Zilada, but so have many others. However, there are some real points to consider for gameplay:
1) For the record, it was not me that killed OP last night - I played, but I did not have two others with me killing Humans. There are many others that do this stuff too.
2) PIRACY IS LEGITIMATE IN ELITE! I think a lot of you are going to be a little frustrated in the main game if you get all righteous about it, and that's not a dig, but it will happen in game
3) Multi player will be unpredictable, and you will always get gamers that will attack you and break the rules.
4) You need to be able to handle this in game, which does create a bit of an arms race, and self defence strategies. There will always be some one bigger and stronger than you so we must all learn how to deal with this
5) This is an Alpha, so the balance is not right yet of the mechanisms to control PvP, plus main combat is too easy so people are looking for new challenges - that we my reason for starting. For the record, I agree this needs to improve.
6) In game, there will be safe systems with police etc, and less safe systems, so depending upon how you want to play, you can stay away from dangerous areas.
7) Thanks to the guys that are testing on behalf of the Dev team. It is an important job, but let's keep this in context. Players attacking players in Zelada is not going to hinder the future development of the game. That's a little self inflated - I mean, come on, really!
8) Personal attacks on this forum are pretty low down dirty - so lets all play nicely.

So - these are my genuine thoughts. I'm not just out to kill everyone.

Is that fair?

PS - I am not hiding my in game name - it's a 70k number so doesn't mean much.

 

[Paulo_B27]

Thanks.

Thanks Delazure - Agree completely.

It's a game, should be fun right?

 

[Paulo_B27]

If as you say Paulo_b27 your after more of a challenge organise a free for all amongst like minded players ,you'll achieve more in testing and be challenged without causing offence

(I am not having a pop as you've been very honest on the forum about your actions)

Thanks for your kind words. It is a game, and is a legitimate style of play, but clearly one that frustrates people.

Think your suggestion is a great idea. It's currently hard to find Humans in game so I may look in to this.

However, this is probably more of an Alpha problem as when in final stage will probably be less of an issue I guess?

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I watched a vid in which D. Braben was saying that the anti-griefing in ED will be done by the bounty hunting system. Such a system exists in EVE Online and doesn't seem to work at all : does anyone know why it should work better in ED ?

It won't. It'll work the same way. A pirate will wrack up such a lucrative bounty and then get his mate to claim it and split the proceeds


Edit:

Just had a look at the ddf archive and the above won't be profitable since....

• When a commander with a rap sheet gets their ship destroyed, any faction bounties are immediately turned into fines via a conversion factor.

So pirates will have hefty fines to pay off once they're brought to justice. Cool, a bounty system that can't be exploited.

 

[Cody]

I've been playing devils advocate tonight for a bit of fun...

It's amazing how often someone playing 'devil's advocate' causes stress and ill-feeling - but it was only for 'fun', eh?

 

[Paulo_B27]

Not crying here. As I mentioned elsewhere I let unprompted aggressors just kill me. Shut down hardpoints, come to a standstill and everything to make it nice and easy. Not yet had time to turn my shields off. Eviscerate away. I care not; it's an alpha after all, I am sure they are testing something. That's my way of manning up - letting the other person feel good about about themselves.

I admire your "Yep I gank n00bs" honesty here, so in the interests of balance my in game name is the same as my forum name. Seek me out if you wish. I won't retaliate. Enjoy. It's my gift to you. At least I won't die needing help to know if I am going forwards or backwards.

Getting shot up is part of the whole thing, but there has to be some thought, no matter how hard it may be to do that, on the part of the aggressor. In this case it wasn't even approaching helpful, the OP was trying to improve the game by performing a test, but persons unknown prevented that, so the game may now be a little bit worse for the sake of a quick laugh on their side, which won't help make an amazing and balanced game.

- An audio confirm that you are in reverse is just a suggestion. An idea. Considering that a) audio beeps are something I have on my car in 2014 (not a space ship in 300 years time), and b) It's not dissimilar to the 'FA OFF' announcement, it's not too crazy a suggestion.

Finally - Let's keep this in context - ED will still launch even if OP had a bad night. Suggestions that the game will now be worse is just COMPLETE AND UTTER BULL. You are taking this well out of context - don't you think?

 

[Paulo_B27]

It's amazing how often someone playing 'devil's advocate' causes stress and ill-feeling - but it was only for 'fun', eh?

So - we must all shake our heads and say "Yes, this it terrible, despicable behaviour, and people like this are spoiling it for blah blah blah"

There are some genuine, real and important points that this style of game play raises aren't there, like the effect on those starting out, and how to control it in a MMP game, and all the rest of it.

Do you acknowledge that, or disagree?

As stated before, I want a balanced game as much as the next man, and I'll probably be off exploring in the full game, or trading at the very least. Just the Alpha is a small confined area so we are in each others way a little.

 

[Paulo_B27]

You seem quite emotional about this. I was having a laugh at how seriously people take their internet persona and how 'hard' they like to portray themselves as in a video game. Its been amusing me since my ultima online days

I actually think ganking has its place in a multiplayer game, so keep it up. I'd hate ED to become so sanitized that the sense of apprehension everytime I leave safe areas is no longer there. Had that in UO with the introduction of Trammel, and it ruined that game to be honest, I really don't want ED to follow suit and become some fluffy playpen.

If I had my way I'd ditch the grouping systems and ignore lists in a heartbeat. The galaxy should have been a big enough playground on its own to never need such extra safety nets!

Fair play. Emotional - Yes, because we all Love ED already, and I've been chuckling away at some of the banter tonight. Not sure everyone sees it that way!

 

[Barns]

It is a game, and is a legitimate style of play, but clearly one that frustrates people.

One that causes a good number of players (myself included) to greatly anticipate the single player mode, sad at the loss of the majority of the multiplayer goodness but required due to the "style of play" you are advocating. One meaningless gank of this sort is enough to ruin an entire evening's play, mood-wise. It's just not worth partaking in any multiplayer of any sort whilst that's possible.

 

[Gwydion]

Hey,

Sure, it's pretty annoying, but that's kind of the fun when you are dishing it out!

l

Is that not the very definition of griefing?

There is an area for pvp combat - and it's not the station. The argument that they are testing the stations defences is idiotic as it has already been determined that the stations defenses are woefully inadequate for defending ships in it's area of influence. Continuing to "test" when nothing has been done to correct this is not going to change anything.

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[Cody]

@Paulo_B27: I made no mention of any in-game behaviour - nor do I intend to.

 

[Paulo_B27]

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Ha - That's very true and quite funny.

Probably the biggest reason I have done it in the past is not to test the defences, although I was cautious initially as didn't know what to expect and the original Elite Starport defences were rock hard, but was more because I had run out of challenges in the Alpha as combat is generally too easy.

So - was just looking for the next thing to do.

I'm not the first and I won't be the last.

 

[Paulo_B27]

One that causes a good number of players (myself included) to greatly anticipate the single player mode, sad at the loss of the majority of the multiplayer goodness but required due to the "style of play" you are advocating. One meaningless gank of this sort is enough to ruin an entire evening's play, mood-wise. It's just not worth partaking in any multiplayer of any sort whilst that's possible.

Sure. You sound quite deflated about it which is a shame. Okay. When this has happened to me before, and it does all the time, it's annoying for about two minutes, but then you are launching out of Zelada again your off. I have got stronger by protecting myself from it, and it's fun and satisfying when I beat a surprise attack.

And lets also be clear - I am not the Advocate of this style of play. This is a style of play built in to the fabric of ED. Piracy is a LIGITIMATE style of play. If you have an issue with it you have four options:
1) Learn to better deal with it in game (Recommended)
2) Take it up with Braben to change the game
3) Go single player (I think you would be missing out on some rich experiences)
4) Go play another game (That would be a darn shame to do so)

Genuinely, I am not the reason this happens, but it's a real part of ED, and would be a real part of the ED universe 300 years from now.

 

[Paulo_B27]

@Paulo_B27: I made no mention of any in-game behaviour - nor do I intend to.

Fair play

 

[Barns]

Piracy is a LIGITIMATE style of play...

Piracy, sure. I'll handle being held up, handing over cargo or fighting to the death. But I did say "meaningless gank" - shooting someone for lols in the spaceport and not getting any cargo out of it, that's not piracy, that's ganking / griefing / whatever.

 

[Paulo_B27]

Piracy, sure. I'll handle being held up, handing over cargo or fighting to the death. But I did say "meaningless gank" - shooting someone for lols in the spaceport and not getting any cargo out of it, that's not piracy, that's ganking / griefing / whatever.

True. I see what you mean. You know, this is probably an Alpha issue too. In the full game, it will be huge, (HUGE!!!), with well protected safe zones/ areas, and a pirate bounty system that will probably make it very unattractive to pursue in a 'ganking' fashion - I hope probably as much as the others on here.

 

[Barns]

True. I see what you mean. You know, this is probably an Alpha issue too. In the full game, it will be huge, (HUGE!!!), with well protected safe zones/ areas, and a pirate bounty system that will probably make it very unattractive to pursue in a 'ganking' fashion - I hope probably as much as the others on here.

I'm hoping it's an alpha issue too, and will try out the full multiplayer in beta probably with solo online as fallback. But it has meant I've barely played alpha much, the griefing combined with annoyances in the controls and UI means it's just not enjoyable for me currently. A shame.

 

[Red 5]

If I remember correctly, there was a mode of online play where you would only see people in space who you put on your "Approved List" of people you like to play with. While I'm all for the excitement of running into strangers out in space and having no idea which way the interaction is going to go, there are just some nights I want to be left alone to ply my traderoutes in relative (player griefing-free) peace.

 

[Xorr]

I really think the prevalence of this type of game play is being a bit underestimated right now. Ganking at any cost is not something enjoyed by a minority, strange as that seems, it's very popular, legitimate and essential if you want an open world to play in.
Problem is you create a dichotomy and with it an eternal balancing act to keep both sides happy.

FD appears on the face of it to have put some thought into controlling 'griefing'.
But what is preventing continuous character recreation?
Massed disposable 'free' sidewinders on a popular starting station undock, a third party waiting to scoop. Delete and recreate commanders rather than pay the 'fine'. If not that, it'll be some other cunning workaround