News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
Much like politicians really.
Thanks for the clarification.
Clear and correct. Repped.
+1 for the rules, harassing a charity event that's just shameful. Nice work FD you sort them out.
In some respect's you are right in what you say everyone should be able to pirate and PVP and kill on mass but you should also expect a higher power that will take you down, if you commit a crime you should then be either sent to jail or shot on the spot and this in ED needs a lot of work i.e the police should shoot on sight if you enter any system with any type of security and they should win everytime without question, the security should fully protect any player who is not wanted. For major infractions of stream high jacking an instant shadow ban (jail) for a period of time set by the FDev council.
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And here is something i never hoped to see. Frontier has just opened the gates for never ending complaints and reports. Hopefully they have the money to pay a bunch of people to deal with this crap.
The problem is when is the line Crossed when is it harassment? Stream sniping? I can see that. Ganking another player? No I don't feel that, and I hope we're not about to head down that slope. What happens when you're undermining a system in Power Play and you have to kill the same dude over and over to get rid of 'em? Is that harassment? Is Station Ganking a trader that didn't drop cargo for you harassment? Those problems have easy solutions the person can wake to another system.
There are groups of players that thrive in harassing other players though, but when there's little else to do in the game it's hard to blame them. Community Goals are usually set up in a way to encourage this behavior and for any player that's been in the game for a month or two there's no real advantage to completing a CG other than having some player interaction. It's why i think you see groups like SDC doing what they do. I don't know what SDC has been up to lately though I haven't logged in much because of how little there is to do and Powerplay being so horribly broken/piracy being entirely pointless. Which brings me to my point If Piracy was actually beneficial players probably wouldn't harass each other. That being said i've personally been stream sniped by members of SDC that were bored, but I was bored too and it gave me something to do.
This is a road i encourage Frontier to tread with game mechanics and not administrative action. Let us place bounties on each other, make system security more threatening, allow us to more properly jam people's FSD's to keep them from High-waking away when things aren't going their way, but do not punish us for doing PvP.
And at the same time to people that are actually griefing other players. You are encouraging people to play in Private Groups and Solo, you're basically slowly eroding away at your own fun
The problem is when is the line Crossed when is it harassment? Stream sniping? I can see that. Ganking another player? No I don't feel that, and I hope we're not about to head down that slope. What happens when you're undermining a system in Power Play and you have to kill the same dude over and over to get rid of 'em? Is that harassment? Is Station Ganking a trader that didn't drop cargo for you harassment? Those problems have easy solutions the person can wake to another system.
There are groups of players that thrive in harassing other players though, but when there's little else to do in the game it's hard to blame them. Community Goals are usually set up in a way to encourage this behavior and for any player that's been in the game for a month or two there's no real advantage to completing a CG other than having some player interaction. It's why i think you see groups like SDC doing what they do. I don't know what SDC has been up to lately though I haven't logged in much because of how little there is to do and Powerplay being so horribly broken/piracy being entirely pointless. Which brings me to my point If Piracy was actually beneficial players probably wouldn't harass each other. That being said i've personally been stream sniped by members of SDC that were bored, but I was bored too and it gave me something to do.
This is a road i encourage Frontier to tread with game mechanics and not administrative action. Let us place bounties on each other, make system security more threatening, allow us to more properly jam people's FSD's to keep them from High-waking away when things aren't going their way, but do not punish us for doing PvP.
And at the same time to people that are actually griefing other players. You are encouraging people to play in Private Groups and Solo, you're basically slowly eroding away at your own fun
Sole Hunter
Banned
When you have a massive empty game filed with almost nothing and no end-game content and repetitive barebone boring activities with no player interation then you attempt and/or try to create content to have fun.
That's why people don't log and resort to blowing people up left and right without giving 2 cents of a pop sicle cocconut.
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Only if that player depends upon other players to be their "end game".
but you did agree to it, albeit a rather open ended vague definition that FDev can 'mould' to suit whatever circumstance / reasoning they want to for determining if a player has broken the EULA / TOS. by accepting the EULA / TOS and ALL it contains, so you can have access to the 'service' you are bound by it, no matter if it is (in your opinion) vague or not absolutely 100% totally clear with direct wording for every individual possible circumstance they want to consider as a reason to withdraw service, you have agreed to the terms and conditions, as such you have absolutely no rights left if you do something that is deemed in breach of the TOS and they choose to enforce their rights as the service owner and deny you service due to your breach.
Personally, I found the TOS / EULA / Code of Conduct quite clear and easy to understand, and as I understood it, I realised immediately that I am agreeing to FD having the right cease my service at their discretion should my conduct breach the TOS / EULA / COC. Quite far reaching rights are given to FDev by our agreement to the terms and conditions of access to the service.
To try to skirt the edges of the agreement, or try to say 'but I did not know what that meant' or try to say 'but it is not clear and completely defined for each and every possible rule breach' is completely irrelevant because you agreed to the TOS and if you did not understand it you should not have agreed to it should have you?
Perhaps if you ask nicely you might get a refund if you now choose not to agree to the TOS or perhaps they will not give a refund, that would be up to FDevs discretion...
As for what SDC did with regards to mobius, that was a clear (IMHO) breach of the COC. and now FDev have stated that trying to do the same (by using alternate accounts) will result in the all of the accounts for the account holder may be impacted on if they breach the TOS / EULA / COC is a step in the right direction. Hold the account holders accountable for their actions. There are a variety of 'punishments' no doubt ranging from refusal of the service, temporary bans, reducing the service, shadow server relegation, written warnings etc...
FWIW, SDC's initial interlude into Mobius and FDev's laclustre initial response which sparked a massive forum outrage, has impacted on FDev in the hip pocket, this I can say with 100% accuracy, while I accept that FDev cannot enforce private group rules, they can enforce the TOC and it seems now they have added some additional clarifications of certain behaviours they deem will be in breach of the EULA / TOS.
The line has been drawn in the sand it would seem...
Sole Hunter
Banned
You can bla bla bla all day long in the end frontier confirmed what we did didn't break the TOS.
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I wouldn't expect a Christmas card though
As I said. IMHO, and just to clarify something for you, IF you (SDC) do indeed use the alternate accounts that you (SDC) have already openly stated they have in mobius group to initate another incident then you would indeed be breaking the terms of service...
We all accepted the TOS / EULA and as part of that the Code of Conduct to use the service... Now it has been clarified that going into a private group with the sole intention of being disruptive or to cause distress to that group or its players is indeed in breach of the TOS and to that end, if a repeat of the breach is done using alternate accounts then actions will be taken against the account owners.
So yes at the time you guys did infiltrate mobius it had not been clarified, and so at that time you were not in breach of the games rules or the terms of service, however now it has been clarified one would hope that everyone would adhere to the code of conduct and the clarifications given by FDev.
I fail to see what you (SDC) actually bring to the game as far as benefits go compared to the damage you have caused it... but that is a discussion for another thread...
That's a tantrum of a kid in a shop. They didn't get the candy they wanted, so they will smash things and stomp their little feet. I know the game has PEGI rating 7+, but come on... You're at least 13 if you post on this forum, right?
"Almost nothing" means at least 4k systems that are inhabited or controlled by someone, all concentrated within a radius of few hundred Ly and within a relatively easy reach. Yes, it's still a lot of space to fill, a lot of it is going to be empty (space vacuum is, generally speaking, empty by the very nature of it). No end game content? If the content is going to be developed for a decade or so, it wouldn't make much sense to be working on endgame content after a year and a bit? Plus, Frontier was always making this game as one without any definite ending. You can have an ending of your own. You can decide you've won when you have a certain ship, certain amount of credits, certain rank in one of the navies or in pilot federation. Or when you've discovered a certain number of Earth-like worlds. Whatever floats your boat.
Repetitive activities? Show me a game that's not repetitive. I have yet to see one that's different every time you launch it. In ever space sim you will have trading, space piracy, space combat and all these activities are build of following similar patterns - repetitive.
However, nobody stops you from having several games installed on your computer. You can have different content and different activities in a matter of seconds. You close one game, you open another. Voila! Different activities and different content.
Interaction between the players? Well, I hear there's 20+ k players happily interacting with each other and that's just one private group, there's bound to be more. You can even create your own and invite others to it, advertise it and interact with other like minded players. Interaction between the players is what the players make it to be. In every single game that allows for that interaction. That nobody wants to play with the kid throwing things off the shelves at the local grocery? Well, that doesn't surprise me, you have to be a nice boy in order for others to want to be nice to you. That's the way it is.
Maybe everyone should just let them do what they're doing.
As soon as these heroes don't get any reply, any action, they're off to another game.
So just stop. Die. Self destruct. Don't talk. Don't complain. On the other hand: Interdict them every time you see them. In a loaned sidewinder.
They're not willing to realize what they're doing. They justify their behaviour by "playing the game" and "FDev should change the game if you're unlucky, we're just having fun". Last time I heard this nonsense was a year ago. Back then some not-to-name-and-shame-but-known-to-most-back-then-cmdr was shooting every single cmdr entering George Lucas at Leesti. Shortly afterwards the self proclaimed heroes came to Leesti/Lave and... killed the area. Empty space.
Hey they even managed to stop me from helping newbies. Since release. Hundreds of them. Fed up. Playing "for myself" now. Congratulations, hoody wearing elite humans streaming their self righteousness.
As soon as these heroes don't get any reply, any action, they're off to another game.
So just stop. Die. Self destruct. Don't talk. Don't complain. On the other hand: Interdict them every time you see them. In a loaned sidewinder.
They're not willing to realize what they're doing. They justify their behaviour by "playing the game" and "FDev should change the game if you're unlucky, we're just having fun". Last time I heard this nonsense was a year ago. Back then some not-to-name-and-shame-but-known-to-most-back-then-cmdr was shooting every single cmdr entering George Lucas at Leesti. Shortly afterwards the self proclaimed heroes came to Leesti/Lave and... killed the area. Empty space.
Hey they even managed to stop me from helping newbies. Since release. Hundreds of them. Fed up. Playing "for myself" now. Congratulations, hoody wearing elite humans streaming their self righteousness.
Impacted Fdev in the hip pocket, mobius accounts to 1% of players, they will not even dent FDs office toiletry budget, come back to earth wont you [haha]
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If we assume all people who bought the game are active players, then Mobius would account for about 2% of that. But since not all people who bought the game are active, and even less are going to buy subsequent expansions, importance of a group of over 20k players (and growing) becomes more significant. I would assume that majority of players in Mobius will stick around to buy expansions as well. So the significance of this portion of the playerbase grows due to its loyalty to the developer and the title.
I would also assume that majority of Mobius players also have accounts on this forum, so this would mean that roughly 20% of this forum members are playing in Mobius.
This is all of course a wild guess as Frontier doesn't share the statistics. Apparently Mobius playerbase was significant enough for Frontier to help that group solve its problems and react to the events happening in that group. So I should think we can rather safely assume they may account for more than 1% of active players.
Also, issues mentioned in the OP were affecting not only Mobius group, but players playing in Open and probably some other private groups.
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Lots of assumptions there.
I fit into all your categories, I am an active player, I frequent the forums, I have 3 CMDRs in Mobius.
Yet for the vast majority of time I play in open.
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Assumptions aside.
Of all the newbies I have met...
- almost all of them (!) quit after less than a week.
- main reason to quit:
----> 1) griefers - yes that's you, shooting at harmless and mostly harmless and novice cmdrs.
----> 2) broken mission system and the message "play the game doing missions".
FDev has still to realize one thing: Reputation is everything. You can do a lot of commercials, ads, conventions. What really counts is the one gamer telling the other one: THIS is something SPECIAL.
Only the hard core elitists do so. Most start the game, realize the mission system is broken, try to continue for all the money spent, get shot, get shot, get shot, get shot, quit.
Yes, there's no subscription. On the other hand there is the avid gamer not being shot to pieces by mediocre pilots just because his Python is in a trading outfit, just because he's not in for PvP, just because he's not in a wing... this avid gamer buys another season pass every year. He buys ship liveries, bobble heads even christmas trees. He tells his friends about the game, he gives reps, +1, likes to it at every given possibility.
The one being shot and killed whilst meeting nice people is going to look for nice people elsewhere.
This game needs a makeover in regard of a "no pvp" function, not a group of people choosing a smaller player base because of being ganked and griefed.
I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with this amount of frustrated newbies and newbie helpers being attacked every single night by the same "heroes" until they quit.
I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a 10% fuel bug that takes months to get rid of.
I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a forum that deletes valid bug reports and closes threads that would shed light on what would be the way to go.
Guess what? I hate to see it that way. I was a backer. I would be, again. There's something completely rotten in the state of denmark, though.
TIME FOR ACTION, FDEV!
Of all the newbies I have met...
- almost all of them (!) quit after less than a week.
- main reason to quit:
----> 1) griefers - yes that's you, shooting at harmless and mostly harmless and novice cmdrs.
----> 2) broken mission system and the message "play the game doing missions".
FDev has still to realize one thing: Reputation is everything. You can do a lot of commercials, ads, conventions. What really counts is the one gamer telling the other one: THIS is something SPECIAL.
Only the hard core elitists do so. Most start the game, realize the mission system is broken, try to continue for all the money spent, get shot, get shot, get shot, get shot, quit.
Yes, there's no subscription. On the other hand there is the avid gamer not being shot to pieces by mediocre pilots just because his Python is in a trading outfit, just because he's not in for PvP, just because he's not in a wing... this avid gamer buys another season pass every year. He buys ship liveries, bobble heads even christmas trees. He tells his friends about the game, he gives reps, +1, likes to it at every given possibility.
The one being shot and killed whilst meeting nice people is going to look for nice people elsewhere.
This game needs a makeover in regard of a "no pvp" function, not a group of people choosing a smaller player base because of being ganked and griefed.
I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with this amount of frustrated newbies and newbie helpers being attacked every single night by the same "heroes" until they quit.
I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a 10% fuel bug that takes months to get rid of.
I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a forum that deletes valid bug reports and closes threads that would shed light on what would be the way to go.
Guess what? I hate to see it that way. I was a backer. I would be, again. There's something completely rotten in the state of denmark, though.
TIME FOR ACTION, FDEV!
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Just as many assumptions like in assuming Mobius players account to 1% of active player base and 1% of Frontier's sales. Or assuming that Frontier make decisions based only on their sales numbers...
The truth is, we don't know the numbers and we won't know the statistics. The issue was significant enough for Frontier to prepare the statement we can read in the OP of this thread. They stated their point of view and that's about it. Being outraged that they would like to have more or less civilized multiplayer experience seems a bit immature to me.