They don't get a chance to shoot at you. However people in Solo can't do the whole fifth column sabotage exploit. It's just an ill thought out system and whatever changes Frontier waste time making will have a bunch of mode switching loopholes as well.
Let's get one thing straight.
- Thread starter Bacalao
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They don't get a chance to shoot at you. However people in Solo can't do the whole fifth column sabotage exploit. It's just an ill thought out system and whatever changes Frontier waste time making will have a bunch of mode switching loopholes as well.
So the reason is you don't want to deal with me? Fine but I demand a mode where NPCs aren't hostile under any circumstances because I don't want to deal with them!
dayrth
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I enjoy open. Play in open almost exclusively, but I don't see why anyone else should if they don't want to. Despite the fact that I don't take advantage of then, I think the modes idea is genius. It is a shame this post has had so much of a negative response. I thought it was well written and very informative about why we should have the option of different modes and why some people choose to play the way they do.
Again, 5th column has nothing to do with open or solo, you can do it in solo group or open because its a problem unrelated to the modes in any way.
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Why are "5th Column" activities a problem? Sure, it's a problem for the affected faction, but it's by no means an exploit. It's something that has happened in real life and is no more a gameplay problem than piracy is.
I don't powerplay so you'd have to ask them, but from what i know i think its a symptom of a flawed system - as I understand it, once you have fortified a system to 100% it is immune to any influence for that game week, regardless of how much you undermine it, so you can have a system thats 1500% undermined but it doesn't matter because it was 100% fortified.
That basically makes the entire system static, because its extremely easy to maintain territory and almost impossible to make any progress (unless they forget to fortify) as a result posing as a member of the faction in order to destabilize it becomes the only method of creating change. Interestingly you could view the PvP players invaded mobius as 5th column and it probably makes a good example of why it matters to people who are committed to a certain power, nobody likes working as a group towards a cohesive goal or in symbiosis and then having what are essentially traitors ruin it from inside, it isn't cooperative and personally I don't think its in the spirit of what PP was supposed to be about, though thats only my thoughts they could think that 5th column is a perfectly viable strategy.
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True, it is very underhanded and mean spirited, but since PP is effectively a cold war, then it's entirely viable as a strategy.
Actually yeah they can. Also it's not an exploit. Unless frontier state you cannot work against your power, and that has an ingame penalty - it's not. In fact it exists because it's the only thing that can affect a power, regardless of solo or open.
Quite so
It's a problem because it can subvert both modes. It's entirely legitimate. It might not be acceptable, but it's legitimate. It also is the only thing that can affect a power equally in open or solo. Unlike undermining and fortifying, which cannot be stopped, a fifth column can actually work from within to affect both.
Probably why people hate it. I think it's hilarious. It's really the only thing offsetting what is an otherwise optimal outcome in solo (it really is the best place for PP; and I am sure that Frontier didn't expect that to be the case).
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It's a problem because it can subvert both modes. It's entirely legitimate. It might not be acceptable, but it's legitimate. It also is the only thing that can affect a power equally in open or solo. Unlike undermining and fortifying, which cannot be stopped, a fifth column can actually work from within to affect both.
Probably why people hate it. I think it's hilarious. It's really the only thing offsetting what is an otherwise optimal outcome in solo.
Completely agree with you on this one.
5th C'ing is a problem because there is no counter, regardless of how obvious it is. It is the equivalent of, during world war 2, to stand in front of the local gestapo headquarters and yelling "I AM A MEMBER OF THE RESISTENCE" while throwing bricks through their windows with complete impunity. Its silly and makes very little sense at all.
Actually no... it's the equivalent of being part of the 5th column in WW2... read up on it, it's interesting.
I'm not being funny but can you please just lay off the insults.
There's a pretty level-headed discussion going on here, let's try and keep it that way.
Actually, no, its nothing like 5th C'ing in ww2. Thats my problem with it. In world war 2, people suspected of 5Th C'ing often had some nasty stuff happening to them. There was a *risk* involved in being a traitor. In ED you can '5th column' in plain sight, you can advertise it, post vids of yourself doing it, show them on the forums and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Thats why it gets pretty close to being an exploit and why people dislike it so much.
By the way, no need for me to read up on it, its part of my country's history.
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> I would agree if some one isn't posting as if they are posting proven facts. Posting facts is fine, but pretending fiction is facts is something else.
> I don't give a hoot about Powerplay or the BGS so it wouldn't really affect me one bit if the proposed buff to Open took place. However, I feel it sets a precedence. No longer are the modes separate but equal. Some modes would then be more equal than others.
As I said above, I don't give a hoot about Powerplay or the BGS so it wouldn't really affect me one bit if the proposed buff to Open took place. However, I feel it sets a precedence. No longer are the modes separate but equal. Some modes would then be more equal than others.
Some of you seem to have a paranoia about what happens in Solo that I don't understand. Also, there is no such thing as a Solo exploit, or any mode exploit. It's all the same game, the modes only alter the instancing. If there is an exploit, it's a game exploit, not a mode exploit. If your argument is that anything but Open is an exploit, that is pure delusion.
My thoughts exactly. The only reason I'm even on the forums is because some people are constantly clamoring for favors to change this or that, and those mistakes (in my opinion) affects everyone, even us poor sods in Solo. Gimme an Offline mode, and you'll never hear from me again.
Actually, no, its nothing like 5th C'ing in ww2. Thats my problem with it. In world war 2, people suspected of 5Th C'ing often had some nasty stuff happening to them. There was a *risk* involved in being a traitor. In ED you can '5th column' in plain sight, you can advertise it, post vids of yourself doing it, show them on the forums and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Thats why it gets pretty close to being an exploit and why people dislike it so much.
By the way, no need for me to read up on it, its part of my country's history.
I error'd anyway, it was the Spanish Civil war, but yes it was "mythical"... but no less historical for all that.
Except obviously that's where we are now, which is exactly why people switch to solo for Powerplay.
The question is should something be implemented to balance the "solo advantage" out.
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They cant. Personally I believe they cant *yet*: the BGS is working much better now but it still requires occassional intervention from FD. If you were given a true offline mode at launch your savegame would have been corrupted within days. And there is no way FD can manually fix the savegames of thousands of different BGS savegames. Now the BGS is getting closer and closer to 'working as intended' they are ramping up its influence in the game this season. If that goes well I wouldn't be surprised if a real Offline mode would become possible.
I think you missed the point in the game sense (ninja'd).
A very small group can undo the work of a large amount of players making their actions useless. The Dev's have previously alluded to this and are looking for a potential fix so it's obviously something they are concerned with.
This, in turn, puts people off actually involving themselves with PP which is bad for the game as a whole.
The same thing can be said of either Solo or Open getting their way to the others detriment.
Personally, this argument is gonna become a circle jerk of players only suggesting what works for them and how they want to the game to be played when the most obvious solution is to add things to the game which make other, more fun ways to play more viable than the lowbob merit grinding and player kill mentality that currently exists. Reward playing the game, deny or punish the more exploitative elements of the game.
Ultimately, PP needs an overhaul because it was focused at the start on creating Power areas which now currently exist. Players can only expand so far away depending on which Power they're associated with (player resources) and that's where we are now. A lot of Powers suffer from bad preparations, sometimes by 5c, sometimes because it is handy to fortify which involves the grinders but it is now at that point where Powers are forced into turmoil to remove systems that drag their economies down.
All you have to do is look at PP regards Control systems and you will see systems at the top over-fortified by massive amounts and that really needs to change as well.
What FD need to do is change the mechanics so the struggle between the powers is focused around the control systems and not just the closest. Then players may move around their local space that much more. That's something as even DB said they want players to do more so there's something in that...even if small scale.
Fix the main issues first, see how players adapt and then go from there.
While players are allowed to take shortcuts, they will and this applies to both sides of this argument.
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