Heat sinks right now are appalling

[Gamel0rd1]

I don't want to complain

But... Have some constructive criticism:

EDIT: it doesn't cool you down to 0 kelvin, as pointed out below. My point doesn't change, so please don't talk about the current temperature in the comments correcting me.

So right now, to purge heat you fire out shrapnel or pieces of metal into space. Sure, it works fine. It uses power? Surely this wouldn't be mechanical or only uses a minute amount of power to flick a switch? It's not like it uses any more than an LED light to release a piece of metal?

Power aside, heat sinks reduce your heat to 0%. I don't think this is acceptable. 0% heat is close to absolute 0 (I assume) but your modules are always producing heat from the reactor, so reaching anywhere near absolute 0 is not possible.

Next thing for me to complain about is the module itself. Launching metal/material into space is not very good or efficient heat dispersal. Animals like elephants have a VERY low surface area to volume ratio, which means elephants build up heat extremely quickly. The same goes for large ships (hence why Capital Ships have special modules to keep them cool). An elephant has large ears (not to hear stuff) to disperse their heat. A ship in elite dangerous in this year should be waaaaaay past launching heatsinks. We need a deployable module which opens up a very large, foldable radiator unit. A large panel with strips of metal running from top to bottom which can be deployed and retracted at will. The rods are for more surface area (heat dispersal).

Another suggestion would be to fit a utility mount with a corrugated metal panel. This makes the ship look a lot nicer whilst still managing to disperse heat.

Deploying a foldable radiator module should reduce heating effects by 20%. If you would be on 100% heat for whatever reason, then you deploy this, it goes down to 80%.

The small panel should only decrease it by 10%, being considerably smaller. These modules also don't require ammo, this being cost efficient as well as realistic.

Idea inspired by Kerbal Space Program and life on earth.

Feedback would be appreciated, thank you - have a nice day

 

[anikaiful]

Hehe, in a way neat idea - but do try use that in combat, which is where they're used 99.99% of the time anyway. Goodbye stealth...

 

[Gamel0rd1]

Hehe, in a way neat idea - but do try use that in combat, which is where they're used 99.99% of the time anyway. Goodbye stealth...

Which is why the smaller, sleeker panel is a lot better (just to vent heat instead of making you a massive target). The large radiators would be for popping a cell bank whilst trying to silent run to throw off your attacker. The original heat sink we have now could stay, but imo it is not a good way of dispersing heat, since Chaff should do that anyway

 

[sqzbox1]

Well, perhaps you need to read up a bit more about the physics of heat transfer. Getting rid of heat in a vacuum is a big problem. Radiator panels such as big ears will not do squat in a vacuum.

Oh, and it won't be absolute zero - it will be 0 degrees C. Which is 273 degrees higher than absolute zero.

 

[Vasious]

I don't want to complain

But... Have some constructive criticism:

So right now, to purge heat you fire out shrapnel or pieces of metal into space. Sure, it works fine. It uses power? Surely this wouldn't be mechanical or only uses a minute amount of power to flick a switch? It's not like it uses any more than an LED light to release a piece of metal?

Power aside, heat sinks reduce your heat to 0%. I don't think this is acceptable. 0% heat is close to absolute 0 (I assume) but your modules are always producing heat from the reactor, so reaching anywhere near absolute 0 is not possible.

Next thing for me to complain about is the module itself. Launching metal/material into space is not very good or efficient heat dispersal. Animals like elephants have a VERY low surface area to volume ratio, which means elephants build up heat extremely quickly. The same goes for large ships (hence why Capital Ships have special modules to keep them cool). An elephant has large ears (not to hear stuff) to disperse their heat. A ship in elite dangerous in this year should be waaaaaay past launching heatsinks. We need a deployable module which opens up a very large, foldable radiator unit. A large panel with strips of metal running from top to bottom which can be deployed and retracted at will. The rods are for more surface area (heat dispersal).

Another suggestion would be to fit a utility mount with a corrugated metal panel. This makes the ship look a lot nicer whilst still managing to disperse heat.

Deploying a foldable radiator module should reduce heating effects by 20%. If you would be on 100% heat for whatever reason, then you deploy this, it goes down to 80%.

The small panel should only decrease it by 10%, being considerably smaller. These modules also don't require ammo, this being cost efficient as well as realistic.

Idea inspired by Kerbal Space Program and life on earth.

Feedback would be appreciated, thank you - have a nice day

I don't think 0% heat is Zero Kelvin, or even close to it, I am sure that would ruin the ship and kill the Cmdr,

9% heat is usually when the ship begins to freeze up so that would be ~ 0 degrees Celsius

The ships already have deployable radiators, that automatically open and extend as the ships get hotter.
Each Fleet yard has their own district form too which is neat

I figured the heat sinks have backup coolant, and basically when you deploy one, the ship pumps the "hot" coolant to the heat sink, & the "cold" coolant from the heat sink into the ships system, it them ejects the heat sink, carrying the excess heat with it.

 

[anikaiful]

Which is why the smaller, sleeker panel is a lot better (just to vent heat instead of making you a massive target). The large radiators would be for popping a cell bank whilst trying to silent run to throw off your attacker. The original heat sink we have now could stay, but imo it is not a good way of dispersing heat, since Chaff should do that anyway

Well, in space... there really isn't many effective ways to disperse heat *quickly* expect by throwing the heat-collector away - there's no matter into which to disperse it to - unlike elephants which have atmosphere (usually) or water handily around.

 

[Gamel0rd1]

Side note: Okay so it probably isn't near 0 Kelvin, but my overall point doesn't change

For those saying "this won't work":

Quoted from NASA:
But the thermal radiation is ALWAYS there, and that is what a spacecraft uses. To get rid of heat, you can point thermal radiators at the dark sky, and to warm up you can point at the Sun or Earth. The Sun warms the Earth through radiation, not convection or diffusion.

What NASA is saying is that the best way to rid heat is via radiation. Ejecting heat via heat sinks only stops the short term problem - you are bound to hear up again. If you use up all your sinks, you're done for. Which is why radiating heat via surface area is a great idea.

 

[777Driver]

I figured the heat sinks have backup coolant, and basically when you deploy one, the ship pumps the "hot" coolant to the heat sink, & the "cold" coolant from the heat sink into the ships system, it them ejects the heat sink, carrying the excess heat with it.

Pretty much how the devs have always described it, the coolant systems heat get's fushed into the heatsink. Not sure why the Op is going on about absolute zero :/

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

<snip> and to warm up you can point at the Sun or Earth...

So I can melt your ship by firing lasers at your radiators? Neato!

 

[Gamel0rd1]

So I can melt your ship by firing lasers at your radiators? Neato!

At which point a player would tend to retract the radiator. Either way, whether you're being sarcastic or not, it isn't a bad idea that shooting off the radiator would reduce cooling and possibly increase levels inside the targeted ship. Still, it is a perfectly viable tactic. Even if you were to use the sleek panel (logical for combat since it's a smaller target) you could target the subsystem and if you use thermal weapons, it begins to cook the ship. Obviously you could choose to retract the sleek version of the module, or at least manage to manoeuvre out the way.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Pretty much how the devs have always described it, the coolant systems heat get's fushed into the heatsink. Not sure why the Op is going on about absolute zero :/

Fixed in my Original Post. My point is still the same, I just assumed 0% was something very cold

 

[777Driver]

Side note: Okay so it probably isn't near 0 Kelvin, but my overall point doesn't change

For those saying "this won't work":

Quoted from NASA:
But the thermal radiation is ALWAYS there, and that is what a spacecraft uses. To get rid of heat, you can point thermal radiators at the dark sky, and to warm up you can point at the Sun or Earth. The Sun warms the Earth through radiation, not convection or diffusion.

What NASA is saying is that the best way to rid heat is via radiation. Ejecting heat via heat sinks only stops the short term problem - you are bound to hear up again. If you use up all your sinks, you're done for. Which is why radiating heat via surface area is a great idea.

Our ships have retractable radiators (automated) All other heat dissipation methods - heat sinks/module management are simply there for gameplay.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21118

Here's a Cutter trying to keep cool

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

At which point a player would tend to retract the radiator. Either way, whether you're being sarcastic or not, it isn't a bad idea that shooting off the radiator would reduce cooling and possibly increase levels inside the targeted ship. Still, it is a perfectly viable tactic. Even if you were to use the sleek panel (logical for combat since it's a smaller target) you could target the subsystem and if you use thermal weapons, it begins to cook the ship. Obviously you could choose to retract the sleek version of the module, or at least manage to manoeuvre out the way.

But a radiator I can't use in combat is a radiator which I have no use for.
You haven't convinced me why this is a better idea than the disposable heatsinks we have now.

 

[kofeyh]

I presume the heat sinks act much like a ceramic heating element. They are exposed to space to "cold soak" and are physically connected to the ship, via the launcher, when you dump heat. Thermal transfer causes heat to bleed into the cermic/ metallic, which will, to some degree at least, reduce heat in other systems.

Presumably given we are flying all manner of ships around and have been a spacefaring race for hundreds of years this is something that has been improved over time.

Space is weird and thermal transfer isn't the same as atmo. So a heatsink isn't going to just radiate heat in space. Instead, it makes much more sense that space is used to, as mentioned, cold soak a puck (cold soaking is a real phenomenon by the way, NASA have to over come it as does Roscosmos and ESA and everyone else) and then use it to draw heat out of a system.

So it might be happening a tad faster than what we can do today, but thermal transfer is a thing and sufficiently advanced materials may be able to have an almost cryogenic effect if the transfer ends up being dramatic enough. There will be physics limits on heat transfer in any material but since I am not a physics major I can't really comment.

A giant radiator bleeding heat into space (which again would need to have some sort of cold soak prior) is like painting a giant bullseye on your ship. No thanks. We partly have heat vents as it is. Hence why we can close for silent running. A giant sail doesn't really add anything and still doesn't address the OPs own concerns around heat management because radiators don't really work that way. They are more for regulating temperatures in coolant, rather than causing dramatic heat loss.

 

[bitstorm]

Wouldn't dumping a heat sink dissipate heat much quicker than the fins.

Ships have both heat sinks and fins, the fins auto-deploy when the ship gets hot, whether they *actually* dissipate heat when deployed I don't know but all the ships have them.

Aren't heat sinks just the "emergency" solution?

Like OMG many suns!! Or silent running combat where you can't radiate.

 

[sqzbox1]

I tend to think that the way ED handles it is quite good actually. A lot of games would just gloss over this aspect of space travel with some sort of hand-wavium futuristic solution (or ignore it completely) when in actuality it is a huge issue. Radiation is the least efficient form of heat transfer - not to mention that any radiator will also act as a receiver, and space, in the areas in which we tend to operate anyhow, is full of radiant energy. I guess the view they have taken is that under normal conditions the ship is built to be capable of maintaining equilibrium sufficient for pilot survival and for ship components to function through the built-in radiator systems, but under extraordinary situations that additional heat is just too much to cope with except by extraordinary means - and so they invented the heat sinks. Radiators just aren't going to be capable of removing vast amounts of rapidly produced heat quickly enough.

I think it works a treat - both as a practical solution for a real problem and also as a game mechanic.

Perhaps a real physicist might like to weigh in - anybody?

 

[GilliganTX]

I don't think you're quite getting how they work in game.


All ships have radiators, and unless you are in SR, they are always open. Sometimes, on some ships, they are "more" open if you're really generating/soaking in heat.


The % heat display is an indicator of how much heat you are generating in excess of what can be radiated away by the ships radiators. That heat is then "stored" in the body of the ship/modules.

0% heat does not mean you are not generating any heat. It means you are below the threshold for the amount of heat that your radiators can disperse by themselves. At 100% you are twice as hot as your radiators can handle.

When you engage a heat sink, all heat energy not being dispersed by the radiators, and thus "stored" in the ship, is purged into that heat sink, and ejected from the ship, taking the heat energy with it.

 

[Monk]

Well, perhaps you need to read up a bit more about the physics of heat transfer. Getting rid of heat in a vacuum is a big problem. Radiator panels such as big ears will not do squat in a vacuum.

Oh, and it won't be absolute zero - it will be 0 degrees C. Which is 273 degrees higher than absolute zero.

Indeed, getting heat away is a major problem. However, radiator panels do work (just not very well). Instead of dissipating heat through the air via kinematics, heat is let off by radiation in the form of infrared light. ISS uses these...

OP's idea is interesting, though I think it would be too much of a harsh change in combat. Perhaps it could be implemented on a extremely light "low tech" explorer ship. Without the advanced (and heavy) radiator systems of other ships, this ship would have to rely on managing large panel radiators. So, it would jump, say 40-45 ly but after each jump it would have to drop to normal space and cool off.

 

[TuxedoSteve]

From what I know;
The ship's standard radiators dissipate heat that gets built up inside the ship automatically. They deploy to different levels depending on how hot the inside of the ship is. The reason for not being fully deployed all the time is to maintain a better stealth profile and, as on the cutter and some other ships, the main radiators jut out when deployed making them more vulnerable to weapons fire. The heat is radiated in the form of light, mostly visible and infrared.

Heat sinks would be equipped for when the heat buildup rate of a ship surpasses the rate it can be radiated away from the ship using the standard radiators, or for stealth. They operate by exchanging the hot coolant in the ship for cold coolant supplied from the heat sink and then dumping the heat sink overboard into space where it is no longer in direct contact with the ship.

 

[DragoonKnight]

I don't want to complain

But... Have some constructive criticism:

EDIT: it doesn't cool you down to 0 kelvin, as pointed out below. My point doesn't change, so please don't talk about the current temperature in the comments correcting me.

So right now, to purge heat you fire out shrapnel or pieces of metal into space. Sure, it works fine. It uses power? Surely this wouldn't be mechanical or only uses a minute amount of power to flick a switch? It's not like it uses any more than an LED light to release a piece of metal?

Power aside, heat sinks reduce your heat to 0%. I don't think this is acceptable. 0% heat is close to absolute 0 (I assume) but your modules are always producing heat from the reactor, so reaching anywhere near absolute 0 is not possible.

Next thing for me to complain about is the module itself. Launching metal/material into space is not very good or efficient heat dispersal. Animals like elephants have a VERY low surface area to volume ratio, which means elephants build up heat extremely quickly. The same goes for large ships (hence why Capital Ships have special modules to keep them cool). An elephant has large ears (not to hear stuff) to disperse their heat. A ship in elite dangerous in this year should be waaaaaay past launching heatsinks. We need a deployable module which opens up a very large, foldable radiator unit. A large panel with strips of metal running from top to bottom which can be deployed and retracted at will. The rods are for more surface area (heat dispersal).

Another suggestion would be to fit a utility mount with a corrugated metal panel. This makes the ship look a lot nicer whilst still managing to disperse heat.

Deploying a foldable radiator module should reduce heating effects by 20%. If you would be on 100% heat for whatever reason, then you deploy this, it goes down to 80%.

The small panel should only decrease it by 10%, being considerably smaller. These modules also don't require ammo, this being cost efficient as well as realistic.

Idea inspired by Kerbal Space Program and life on earth.

Feedback would be appreciated, thank you - have a nice day

I guess you are not familiar with the concept that measurement instruments work within a limited range. If the range for my ship thermometer is 1000 K - 10000K then any temperature that is below 1000k can be represented by 0%, just like 10000k can be represented by 100%. If you would like a real life example of this then just pay attention to the temperature gauge in your car the next time you drive. When it reads cold or "0" it is not actually zero. It simply below its measurement threshold.

 

[lysan]

I believe that heat management in ED is just (almost) perfect. The problem is that the NPCS don't react to heat, they can see you no matter what, only players have a problem.