Heat sinks right now are appalling

I'd guess the coolant is part of the "heat sink unit" itself. And likely what is used to divert heat into the plates in the first hand - as is pretty apparent in that we can't just jettison coolants if we don't have heat sinks available.

The coolant wouldn't be apart of the heat sink module because the ship cools its self down without heat sinks using the coolant that would be most likey vented or run through a radiator and radiated as light. Most of the ship have exterior lights that are always on maybesome are actually radiators putting out the lower normal heat levels the heat sink are just an emergency quick cool down tools that when ejected also purge coolant. As for why we don't have to worry about how much coolant we have its a video game, seems good enough a reason. Also its entirely possible the same hydrogen we use for fuel is aslo used as coolant.
 
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The coolant wouldn't be apart of the heat sink module because the ship cools its self down without heat sinks using the coolant that would be most likey vented or radiated as light, the heat sink are just an emergency quick cool down tools that when ejected also purge coolant. As for why we don't have to worry about how much coolant we have its a video game, seems good enougha reason.

We have coolant, and we have "means to heat the sinks by pulling the heat from other parts"... What I meant is the coolant intrisic with the sinks themselves, not the non-heat-sinked cooling methods.
 
The coolant wouldn't be apart of the heat sink module because the ship cools its self down without heat sinks using the coolant that would be most likey vented or run through a radiator and radiated as light. Most of the ship have exterior lights that are always on maybesome are actually radiators putting out the lower normal heat levels the heat sink are just an emergency quick cool down tools that when ejected also purge coolant. As for why we don't have to worry about how much coolant we have its a video game, seems good enough a reason. Also its entirely possible the same hydrogen we use for fuel is aslo used as coolant.

What exactly do you mean by radiated as light? Do you mean energy?
 
Im guessing its not, hydrogen is commonly used in current industrial practices for cooling, so it makes sense to use that as the ships coolant and fuel so i cant see making a seperate system for the heat sink rather than just tapping into the one the ship already has
 
Im guessing its not, hydrogen is commonly used in current industrial practices for cooling, so it makes sense to use that as the ships coolant and fuel so i cant see making a seperate system for the heat sink rather than just tapping into the one the ship already has

Hydrogen is not the easiest material to deal with, however. Mix it accidentally with something undesirable and you're in for a world of hurt. For example, our precious oxygen... Solid matter is more fail-safe.
 
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This thread has gone crazy. To dump heat you need the ability to dump a high-specific-heat something-or-other. You also need a way to transfer heat into that something-or-other. It is not thermodynamically possible to pump more heat into your - let's call it reservoir - than your thing you want to cool. That is to say, when you remove heat by jettisoning hot things, the hottest thing you can jettison is at the temperature of your hottest thing which is still on board. That is part of thermodynamics. That doesn't have to screw us, that's ok, and unavoidable because it's part of physics.

That's the limit of heatsinks as they currently implemented. This is the best and only way to do it. To do it by radiative losses as the OP wants has been done, as far as it can (the Sidewinder has visible fins, which means the other ships have fins that are not visible, but the radiative route has been used). I mean, seriously. They really have not messed up the physics here. Dumping more heat via heatsinks is literally the only way that extra heat can be dumped. The way you would do it is you get a super high capacity ingot connected via the best thermal connection (not complicated, you just push it against your hot thing as hard as you can) available to your hot thing and then you just ..throw it away..

This isn't really even an argument. Someone upthread asked if a 'real' physicist would weigh in. I assume lots of people are 'real' physicists, but I am also one, and heatsinks is the only available mechanic for this.
 
Heat Sinks are an additional module, they're a choice. EVERY ship already has heat dispersion which you can check by using the fuel scoop then the debug camera.

0 is not absolute 0, it's just the ships cockpit / bridge temperature in Celsius.

You're looking into this way too much.
 
You've still not looked into peltiers have you *facepalm* There's little point in people saying it multiple times and ways if you don't check it out. I'm not sure you grasp the thermodynamics at all. I have many peltiers here, I can combine them freeze a penny in seconds, throw it away freeze the next etc etc etc and the same works in reverse, but less fun to touch - it precisely why they're useful

oh and edit> the heat gauge in your cockpit is in % heat capacity not degrees or anything - it tells you this while scooping
 
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Space is cold (very cold, 2.7K (-270.45 deg c)) so a thermal fin / radiator is a massively effective way to disperse heat *quickly* (as you put it) without disposing of the heat collector. The laws of thermodynamics mean that the heatsink and the vacuum of space are constantly trying to reach an equilibrium, so having to dispose of your heatsink is not only a waste of resources, but also entirely unneccesary. To quote a piece on heat sinks on space craft "The heat collected and transported has to be rejected at an appropriate temperature to a heat sink, which is usually the surrounding space environment". Yes there are certain situations where disposing of your heat is desirable such as escaping an attacker but for plain old, every day use retractable heat sinks are more than adequate to dispose of ship heat build up. We will, of course, never see them in ED because heat is another penalty system like credits, cheating NPCs, borked missions, nerfed ships and systems, etc. (all of course to maintain balance).
 
Hydrogen is not the easiest material to deal with, however. Mix it accidentally with something undesirable and you're in for a world of hurt. For example, our precious oxygen... Solid matter is more fail-safe.
I agree hydrogen is dangerous but this is a advanced space ship with ftl travel that has a system to use hyrdogen already demonstrating that the engineers are more than capable of handling hydrogen safely. My ship never blew up due to hydrogen related reasons. Though that would be awesome if it could, be it from taking damage to the fuel tank while flying through atmosphere, or whatever nasa screws up ever once in a while.
 
Space is cold (very cold, 2.7K (-270.45 deg c)) so a thermal fin / radiator is a massively effective way to disperse heat *quickly* (as you put it) without disposing of the heat collector. The laws of thermodynamics mean that the heatsink and the vacuum of space are constantly trying to reach an equilibrium, so having to dispose of your heatsink is not only a waste of resources, but also entirely unneccesary. To quote a piece on heat sinks on space craft "The heat collected and transported has to be rejected at an appropriate temperature to a heat sink, which is usually the surrounding space environment".
You mean wikipedia?

It also says on that page that the rate at which a radiator radiates depends on it's material/construction/etc so each radiator has a limit to how quickly it can radiate heat. In a situation where you ship is creating heat more quickly than it can be radiated the ship would then begin to overheat - you could say it was at for example 120% of it's heat capacity.

Wouldn't it be helpful at that point to have a method to dispose of that excess heat?
Yes there are certain situations where disposing of your heat is desirable such as escaping an attacker but for plain old, every day use retractable heat sinks are more than adequate to dispose of ship heat build up. We will, of course, never see them in ED because heat is another penalty system like credits, cheating NPCs, borked missions, nerfed ships and systems, etc. (all of course to maintain balance).
Do you mean like the ones all the ships have that you disable with silent running and that pictures were posted of earlier in the thread?

Sounds like a genuine bork and not pointless axe-grinding to me. Look this mechanic has been explained and works. If you want to pick at something find an actual scab don't dig into pristine skin. I've used almost exactly this method working with laser diodes which overheat quickly - sit them on a peltier dumping into a chunk of metal and it stays fine until the metal block heats up then you switch to a different block and carry on. Like it or not, it's not a mistake.
 
This thread has gone crazy. To dump heat you need the ability to dump a high-specific-heat something-or-other. You also need a way to transfer heat into that something-or-other. It is not thermodynamically possible to pump more heat into your - let's call it reservoir - than your thing you want to cool. That is to say, when you remove heat by jettisoning hot things, the hottest thing you can jettison is at the temperature of your hottest thing which is still on board. That is part of thermodynamics. That doesn't have to screw us, that's ok, and unavoidable because it's part of physics.

If you're willing to spend energy, you can get around that with heat pumps, using heating and cooling from expanding gases. It's also how refrigerators work.

I mean, technically, there's a tiny part of your cooling system which is as hot as the thing you're jettisoning, but practically it lets you cool your ship to freezing by ejecting arbitrarily hot bits of lead.
 
Space is cold (very cold, 2.7K (-270.45 deg c)) so a thermal fin / radiator is a massively effective way to disperse heat *quickly* (as you put it) without disposing of the heat collector. The laws of thermodynamics mean that the heatsink and the vacuum of space are constantly trying to reach an equilibrium, so having to dispose of your heatsink is not only a waste of resources, but also entirely unneccesary. To quote a piece on heat sinks on space craft "The heat collected and transported has to be rejected at an appropriate temperature to a heat sink, which is usually the surrounding space environment". Yes there are certain situations where disposing of your heat is desirable such as escaping an attacker but for plain old, every day use retractable heat sinks are more than adequate to dispose of ship heat build up. We will, of course, never see them in ED because heat is another penalty system like credits, cheating NPCs, borked missions, nerfed ships and systems, etc. (all of course to maintain balance).

Sorry. No.

The ambient temperature of space only matters in the theory of using conductive methods of heat transfer. That is, methods that require one body of mass to be in direct contact with another body of mass.

Since space has no mass, and by it's very definition and nature is largely devoid of such, the local temperature of space has absolutely nothing to do with how well heat can be dispersed in it.

Radiant heat, as has been explained, is the most efficient method for dispersing heat into space. This does not, however, mean that it is an efficient method overall.

Using conductive surfaces like radiators to convert heat into different forms of energy such as infrared and visible radiation is how the ships normally work. However, it is a comparatively slow and inefficient process when compared to most forms of conductive or convective heat transfer.

Very slow, and very inefficient. Tell you what. As an experiment, take the heatsink off of your computer's processor and start up a linpack stress test, and tell us how well your processor manages to disperse the heat it produces by radiating it out through the air, compared to how well it does this by conducting it through the heatsink and likewise the heatsink through the air.

That should be fun.

It's 3302 not 2016 though, and peltiers can cool anything any amount as long as you have a way to dispose of that heat from the hot side

Now if only there was any kind of material you could dump vast amounts of heat into without it affecting the surroundings... My mate sent me this today


Tiniest jump of imagination to think of what we could invent in another thousand years

You won't get peltiers much more efficient than what they are now unless you develop a high temperature superconductor capable of working at room temperature and exceeding the ranges mentioned in that video, and even then that would only put it on par with conventional methods.

So theoretically sure, but because physics no.

If you're willing to spend energy, you can get around that with heat pumps, using heating and cooling from expanding gases. It's also how refrigerators work.

I mean, technically, there's a tiny part of your cooling system which is as hot as the thing you're jettisoning, but practically it lets you cool your ship to freezing by ejecting arbitrarily hot bits of lead.

Kind of yes and no. Your refrigerator needs to disperse the excess heat created by pressurizing the refrigerant first, which is why they have radiators. Once the excess energy from the pressurization has been bled off into the room then the adiabatic process can occur.
 
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If you're willing to spend energy, you can get around that with heat pumps, using heating and cooling from expanding gases. It's also how refrigerators work.

I mean, technically, there's a tiny part of your cooling system which is as hot as the thing you're jettisoning, but practically it lets you cool your ship to freezing by ejecting arbitrarily hot bits of lead.

Yep that's also true, as you know. The point is that, when you're flying around in a vacuum, physics supports that the quickest way to lose heat is to throw it overboard. My point before (about the hottest thing you can eject is the hottest thing you still have on board) is undermined by the fact that you can use latent heat to cheat the equation (as you said, how fridges work). The ultimate point is, we have pretty much ultimate control of heat transfer already, and the fastest way to dump heat is to heat up a thing with high heat capacity and throw it overboard.
 
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You won't get peltiers much more efficient than what they are now unless you develop a high temperature superconductor capable of working at room temperature and exceeding the ranges mentioned in that video, and even then that would only put it on par with conventional methods.

So theoretically sure, but because physics no.
Yeah in hard reality of now but frameshift drives... let's give the future some credit! Or at least the benefit of the doubt as we fly around at 30c
 
As for superconductors, don't forget that whilst we don't have room-temp superconductors yet, we do have LN2 temp superconductors and they are being deployed right now across the USA for power transmission.
 
Yeah in hard reality of now but frameshift drives... let's give the future some credit! Or at least the benefit of the doubt as we fly around at 30c

Who said frameshift drives were science fiction?

FTL travel is an inevitability. Perfect Peltier units are not. No matter what you're feeding them electricity, and that electricity can only produce heat when it's done it's work.
 
Who said frameshift drives were science fiction?

FTL travel is an inevitability. Perfect Peltier units are not. No matter what you're feeding them electricity, and that electricity can only produce heat when it's done it's work.

No, FTL travel is an impossibility. Seriously. All of this is just for fun.
 
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