The Fer de lance dilemma and ships pricing

[Mephane]

If you add the extra cost for the A6 power plant, it's already about 10m more for a fully outfitted FDL than with an A5 power plant.

Plus, at 50m base price, the FDL is still much more expensive than comparable ships - FAS, Clipper, and as expensive as the bigger and more versatile Python. I don't see how the FDL is in any form "too cheap".

 

[Marcus Franconium]

Read my posts again, as I already explained it. You cant claim that "its not logical" just because you do not understand it.

Funny as I am playing the game from the premium betas and I understand more than you think the price change at the time was logical no one was buying it .

but after the update now every where you look FDL's so what is your problem to return the price of the fdl to its original pricing.

 

[DragoonKnight]

The asp is an explorer vessel is also to cheap and totally different to the fdl .who said that I wanted the powerplant nerved I just want the price to return to its original pricing in 1.2 as the new power plant more than justify it .

and it will fill the 60 million gap between the T9 and the anaconda

The new powerplant does not justify that sort of cost increase. Of course you have no clue either way, because you havent spent any significant amount of time in an FDL. And the gap between the T9 and Anaconda needs to be filled in with more ships that have a real role in the Elite universe. We may have to wait until season 3 or later to see ships in that price class introduced.

 

[jmp470]

If we increase the FDL's price based on what is stated here, then we need to raise other ships prices to.

The FAS and Clipper are very OP for their prices. 20M ish is dirt cheap.
The Python at 48M is dirt cheap too. It should be doubled.
All three large ships should start in the 300M range too.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Funny as I am playing the game from the premium betas and I understand more than you think the price change at the time was logical no one was buying it .

but after the update now every where you look FDL's so what is your problem to return the price of the fdl to its original pricing.

That kind of price increase is only justified if the FDL were to completely outclass the FAS / Clipper and be a tier above them. This is not the case. The FDL is a combat focused sidegrade to these ships, not a full blown upgrade. For 100 million you would have to give the FDL a Class 5 FSD, Class 5 Fuel Tank, and replace two of its medium hardpoints with two large hardpoints.

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If we increase the FDL's price based on what is stated here, then we need to raise other ships prices to.

The FAS and Clipper are very OP for their prices. 20M ish is dirt cheap.
The Python at 48M is dirt cheap too. It should be doubled.
All three large ships should start in the 300M range too.

Python already got hit with the nerf bat really hard. We should keep its price as is.
You know which ship needs to have its price reset to original price levels? The Vulture. Everyone and their grandmother is flying one and it completely eliminates any desire to fly the courier, asp, and other ships in that price level. Why bother when 4 million credits gets you a crazy combat ship and the next step up requires an investment of 75 million for the FAS

 

[Ceekay]

Cost can never be a factor in ship balancing as given enough time practically everyone will end up using the OP "overpriced" ship, I've no issue with the upgraded PP as it opens up more loadout options (and Engineers will need spare PP capacity I expect) but making it run cool as well was a little too much I believe.

 

[Marcus Franconium]

If you add the extra cost for the A6 power plant, it's already about 10m more for a fully outfitted FDL than with an A5 power plant.

Plus, at 50m base price, the FDL is still much more expensive than comparable ships - FAS, Clipper, and as expensive as the bigger and more versatile Python. I don't see how the FDL is in any form "too cheap".

The FDL is a dedicated combat ship as the ship systems weapons and 6 utilitys are now able to be used in without power management and the huge hard point the original pricing makes more sense .
The python is a multi-role ship and its pricing is also on the low side as its a perfectly balanced ship .in the same way as the cobra the pricing of the imp clipper and fas are suprising . as the orca is 48 million and can carry a significant amount of cargo. and has the speed to escape.the fas should have had a more of a gunship pricing .

That is what I meant with the rebalancing of the ship pricing .

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That kind of price increase is only justified if the FDL were to completely outclass the FAS / Clipper and be a tier above them. This is not the case. The FDL is a combat focused sidegrade to these ships, not a full blown upgrade. For 100 million you would have to give the FDL a Class 5 FSD, Class 5 Fuel Tank, and replace two of its medium hardpoints with two large hardpoints.

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Python already got hit with the nerf bat really hard. We should keep its price as is.
You know which ship needs to have its price reset to original price levels? The Vulture. Everyone and their grandmother is flying one and it completely eliminates any desire to fly the courier, asp, and other ships in that price level. Why bother when 4 million credits gets you a crazy combat ship and the next step up requires an investment of 75 million for the FAS

I already said the pricing of all the ships should be rebalanced.

 

[The_Quasar]

That kind of price increase is only justified if the FDL were to completely outclass the FAS / Clipper and be a tier above them. This is not the case. The FDL is a combat focused sidegrade to these ships, not a full blown upgrade. For 100 million you would have to give the FDL a Class 5 FSD, Class 5 Fuel Tank, and replace two of its medium hardpoints with two large hardpoints.

I'd buy a Mk II FDL with those specs for 100 million!

Python already got hit with the nerf bat really hard. We should keep its price as is.
You know which ship needs to have its price reset to original price levels? The Vulture. Everyone and their grandmother is flying one and it completely eliminates any desire to fly the courier, asp, and other ships in that price level. Why bother when 4 million credits gets you a crazy combat ship and the next step up requires an investment of 75 million for the FAS

All very true... and a fully fitted FDL already costs over 100 million too.

 

[Boomer Kay]

And the gap between the T9 and Anaconda needs to be filled in with more ships that have a real role in the Elite universe.

There isn't really a gap between the T9 and the Anaconda - A tradeConda is not as profitable as a T9 (well, you could run long-range haul missions with the Conda, which are quite profitable but depend a lot on the RNG and your trade Rank or mode-switching to get to or above ABA profitability), it's more a stylish sidegrade than an upgrade.
The financial gap between the T9 and a trade Vette/Cutter can be closed in about 10-15 hours of gameplay, if you trade the T9 in.
What's missing is actually a huge trader at or above the current top ships, which offers superior cargo space in the 1000t range.

 

[Martian Successor]

Rebalancing the prices for all ships should be one of the lowest priorities for FD right now. The highest priority should be fixing the place holder content that has been passing for missions for more than a year since release. And they're apparently doing just that with the Engineers update so hopefully that goes well.

Let's please get proper mission mechanics and much better mission pay that is dependant on pilot's rank (as apposed to just leveling up our rank for the hell of it currently, no benefits to it at all.) before we start debating about upping the price of any ships. Not all of us wish to go through a horrendous and repetitive grind ala Robigo, because missions are broken and the pay is peanuts, just to get a ship they want.

 

[Goose4291]

Issues like this is why frontier need to stop bending over backwards to the community, it throws balance or interesting mechanics right out the window.

I still think the Vulture should be priced at 20 million.

 

[SValefor]

Ok. Real quick. I love my FDL, it's the ship I've wanted since the onset of me playing the game, regardless of how good, or not, it was. I can tell you that getting to that 58m (the price at the time I bought it) was such a long, and massive hike of boring, boring, trade routes in a 6 and later 7, when the entire "play your way" thing was thrown so far out the window that I could not reasonably grind up the credits to get the FDL with bounty hunting in the boring Vulture. Now I've got the ship, it's still a huge hike to upgrade, and I can realistically spend about maybe 3 hours a week playing. That's a pretty reasonable time sink for an adult playing a video game. I understand you want "goal posts" but throwing around arbitrary numbers like everyone has the time to grind severely limits play-ability. A more realistic suggestion is to invite something like components, or parts in Engineers which will be superior but take time to build by collecting rare components. These are goal posts that take time, but they don't inhibit or limit desirable gameplay. they just make the player stronger.

 

[Derath]

the FDL should cost 100 mil for the same reason the vulture should have cost 30

Power =/= Size

They were the combat focused versions of the ships they were priced with.

The real issue at the time and the reason they changed their price is because bounty hunting made terrible income compared to trading, so you had the best combat ship priced like it was the best trade ship - that doesn't stand. However bounty hunting isn't anyway near as bad now so realistically the costs should be adjusted but its just too much like hard work now right? I'm sure theres bigger fish to fry.

 

[Boomer Kay]

A more realistic suggestion is to invite something like components, or parts in Engineers which will be superior but take time to build by collecting rare components. These are goal posts that take time, but they don't inhibit or limit desirable gameplay. they just make the player stronger.

I'm not sure if everyone here just holds out until they can afford a fully A equipped Ship with Military Composite armor, before they get a new ship. There's certainly some posts around here recommending that.

I always found it way more entertaining to get a new ship as soon as I could equip it D grade (B Grade FSD maybe) and take it from there. It will be better than the previous ship in some regards and somewhat worse in others and you can spend the next couple of days/weeks/months upgrading it bit by bit (which is that piggybank for your next ship as mentioned, since you can resell the internal components at the buy price).
So that sort of progression and goal posts can be in the game - if not completely avoided by saving up the huge bucks for the fully equipped next ship while sticking around in a smaller one.

 

[DragoonKnight]

the FDL should cost 100 mil for the same reason the vulture should have cost 30

Power =/= Size

They were the combat focused versions of the ships they were priced with.

The real issue at the time and the reason they changed their price is because bounty hunting made terrible income compared to trading, so you had the best combat ship priced like it was the best trade ship - that doesn't stand. However bounty hunting isn't anyway near as bad now so realistically the costs should be adjusted but its just too much like hard work now right? I'm sure theres bigger fish to fry.

The FDL already costs 100 million since it is not usable with those E rated parts it comes with. And for 100 million it should be a lot better than the FAS in every way. This is not the case.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Price should buy you PvE effectiveness, not PvP.

Roll back the FDL buffs, lower its price, nerf its hull and make it a PvP focused heavy shield-tanking fighter it was supposed to be.

Then release an "FDL heavy" to satify the PvE crowd, tankier hull, less U slots, class 6 PP and class 7 distributor, lower boost speed, better jump range, 1 more class 5 internal

Think Python but less internals/large HP in exchange for better flight model and more shield alpha resistance

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Price should buy you PvE effectiveness, not PvP.

Roll back the FDL buffs, lower its price, nerf its hull and make it a PvP focused heavy shield-tanking fighter it was supposed to be.

Then release an "FDL heavy" to satify the PvE crowd, tankier hull, less U slots, class 6 PP and class 7 distributor, lower boost speed, better jump range, 1 more class 5 internal

Think Python but less internals/large HP in exchange for better flight model and more shield alpha resistance

Well they did announce an FdL Mk II awhile back but no details.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Well they did announce an FdL Mk II awhile back but no details.

Nope, that was a rumour started and echoed on the forums with no verified source. They even explicitly said they weren't doing anything on stream

 

[DragoonKnight]

Price should buy you PvE effectiveness, not PvP.

Roll back the FDL buffs, lower its price, nerf its hull and make it a PvP focused heavy shield-tanking fighter it was supposed to be.

Then release an "FDL heavy" to satify the PvE crowd, tankier hull, less U slots, class 6 PP and class 7 distributor, lower boost speed, better jump range, 1 more class 5 internal

Think Python but less internals/large HP in exchange for better flight model and more shield alpha resistance

If you had things your way then an eagle could take down a corvette in pvp.

And what is this non-sense about the fdl's hull?
Dbs hull 216
Vulture hull 288
ASP hull 378
Fdl hull 405
Clipper hull 486
Fas hull 540

Looks fine to me.

 

[thorn-]

Let's just make every ship larger than a Vulture cost 1 Billion Credits.

That way, the only people that can afford to purchase and maintain one are the same people whining that they only make $100,000,000 / hr running Robigo missions.

Plus, no one that prefers combat or PvP will fly anything larger than a Vulture... and combat will get a lot more interesting.