How much damage can a FDL take?

[Nerwan]

1 Won't work, properly flown FDLs wont let you get close
2 Won't work, dropship will get outflown and PP sniped by competent pilots
3 Won't work, you will be burst through and the FDL can easily avoid a frag python
4 Could work: Unless they're in a wing, in which case you will get alpha'd down

To be fair, you are basically assuming here that the FDL pilot in question can fly as well as you can but you are currently top of the PVP rankings ;-) Many of these things will work against your average pilot. Especially the non-backwards flying kind and I am assuming here that it wasn't you who killed the OP ;-)

One of the problems I have staying away from FASes is that when I FAoff away from them to keep my distance I really suck at aiming rail guns. I can only aim them well with FA on.. I guess I need more practice. Maybe I should spend an afternoon making NPCs chase me and then killing them with pulse lasers flying backwards or something.

Also, not totally sure if a Python can be alpha'd down by a single rail-de-lance.. I have 4 active banks on mine with a base shield of around 500.. So that's a total shield strength of 500 + (1800 * 2) + (1050 * 2) which is 6200 MJ multiply that by 1.6 to give the 4 pips to shields value of 9,920 MJ. A rail-de-lance has 5 x 30 rails which all do 43MJ of damage so that's only 6,450 of damage. So in theory, no you can't get alpha'd down in a 1v1 (unless synthesis which I suppose is a big if these days)

 

[Aratoth]

silly me

 

[tawittle]

The tankiest FDL you can build has 5570 MJ of shield tank (2228 MJ without 4 pips) and 1088 armor.

The reason why you thought that player FDL seemed so tanky, was because he knew to keep 4 pips in shields, meaning he only took 40% of normal damage (that is the point of shields).

Lots of people think FAS can beat FDL but they haven't tried that against me

 

[Nerwan]

The reason why you thought that player FDL seemed so tanky, was because he knew to keep 4 pips in shields, meaning he only took 40% of normal damage (that is the point of shields)

The OP specified that it was a silent FDL.

And is it really correct that 4 PIPs increases the MJ by 2.5? I had the figure of 1.6 in my head but I can't remember where I saw that now so I could well be wrong. (In which case my answer about the Python earlier is even more true...)

 

[Ziljan]

To be fair, you are basically assuming here that the FDL pilot in question can fly as well as you can but you are currently top of the PVP rankings ;-) Many of these things will work against your average pilot. Especially the non-backwards flying kind and I am assuming here that it wasn't you who killed the OP ;-)

One of the problems I have staying away from FASes is that when I FAoff away from them to keep my distance I really suck at aiming rail guns. I can only aim them well with FA on.. I guess I need more practice. Maybe I should spend an afternoon making NPCs chase me and then killing them with pulse lasers flying backwards or something.

Also, not totally sure if a Python can be alpha'd down by a single rail-de-lance.. I have 4 active banks on mine with a base shield of around 500.. So that's a total shield strength of 500 + (1800 * 2) + (1050 * 2) which is 6200 MJ multiply that by 1.6 to give the 4 pips to shields value of 9,920 MJ. A rail-de-lance has 5 x 30 rails which all do 43MJ of damage so that's only 6,450 of damage. So in theory, no you can't get alpha'd down in a 1v1 (unless synthesis which I suppose is a big if these days)

This is why I don't use rails. No staying power in protracted battles. Only good vs weak targets.

 

[Crash Landing]

Love em in pve gutless show offs terminaly addicted to the spin of death. Always the first thing the men in green pick on and always have good bounties.

Have more trouble with well armed sidey's

 

[tawittle]

The OP specified that it was a silent FDL.

And is it really correct that 4 PIPs increases the MJ by 2.5? I had the figure of 1.6 in my head but I can't remember where I saw that now so I could well be wrong. (In which case my answer about the Python earlier is even more true...)

Yes 2.5x is the correct multiplier and you are entitled to your opinion about the python

In the case of a hull tank FDL, the tankiest you can get is 2028 armor.

The way you counter hull tank builds is with gimballed multi-cannons. You need to be very close to get gimballed lock on silent running targets.

In a 1v1 however, a shielded FDL can easily beat a hull-tank FDL, which is why a "pve build" (shields) should theoretically beat a "pvp build" (silent running) 1v1.

 

[Derath]

To be fair, you are basically assuming here that the FDL pilot in question can fly as well as you can but you are currently top of the PVP rankings ;-) Many of these things will work against your average pilot. Especially the non-backwards flying kind and I am assuming here that it wasn't you who killed the OP ;-)

Its true he does, but Its also pointless to theorycraft out anything that doesn't assume a degree of competance from both sides right? If they are bad you can beat them in anything

 

[Nerwan]

Its true he does, but Its also pointless to theorycraft out anything that doesn't assume a degree of competance from both sides right? If they are bad you can beat them in anything

I know what you mean but in this instance we're not talking about the theoretical best way to beat an FDL. We're talking about a newish PVPer (The OP) who wants to have a fighting chance in PVP against an FDL. And there are ways of beating lots of pilots in FDLs even if there may not be ways of beating the best pilots in FDLs..

 

[Derath]

I know what you mean but in this instance we're not talking about the theoretical best way to beat an FDL. We're talking about a newish PVPer (The OP) who wants to have a fighting chance in PVP against an FDL. And there are ways of beating lots of pilots in FDLs even if there may not be ways of beating the best pilots in FDLs..

Well said

 

[DragoonKnight]

My buddy and I were out doing some bounty hunting in two A grade anacondas. We are headed back to the community goal turn in when he was interdicted. I dropped in before any shots were fired. Then he was attacked by a commander in a PVP build fdl. He was using a rail gun and stealth build. He wasn't trying to avoid getting hit or trying to get behind us, he was just making passes. Every time he would make a pass we would both unload on him with a disturbing amount of Firepower. After about 5 minutes of this he blew up my friends ship. He started working on me at this point and I blasted him for another few minutes until my shields were down. His ship did not seem to be taking any damage so I left. How can this be? What armor upgrade makes you nearly invulnerable to both lasers and multi cannons? I could understand if he were using his ships maneuverability to get behind us. But that was not the case. He just took insane damage and showed no sign of it. I even rammed into him at high speed in a head on collision. That alone should have smashed his hull in a good bit. And we weren't missing that much when we shot. I could see and hear the hits. I could never get a lock to see his hull %damage though.
I don't go out looking for PVP fights, and I know that a dedicated PVP build is advantageous. But, is it normal for a PVP build fdl to take 5 times more damage then and Elite NPC fdl? What's the method to counter this?

Its not that he could take ridiculous damage, but most likely that you couldn't keep your guns on him long enough and consistently enough due to his silent running. I am guessing your anaconda is running a gimballed setup and you likely dont have much practice with fixed weapons, especially against targets you dont have a lock

 

[El Dragoon!]

My buddy and I were out doing some bounty hunting in two A grade anacondas. We are headed back to the community goal turn in when he was interdicted. I dropped in before any shots were fired. Then he was attacked by a commander in a PVP build fdl. He was using a rail gun and stealth build. He wasn't trying to avoid getting hit or trying to get behind us, he was just making passes. Every time he would make a pass we would both unload on him with a disturbing amount of Firepower. After about 5 minutes of this he blew up my friends ship. He started working on me at this point and I blasted him for another few minutes until my shields were down. His ship did not seem to be taking any damage so I left. How can this be? What armor upgrade makes you nearly invulnerable to both lasers and multi cannons? I could understand if he were using his ships maneuverability to get behind us. But that was not the case. He just took insane damage and showed no sign of it. I even rammed into him at high speed in a head on collision. That alone should have smashed his hull in a good bit. And we weren't missing that much when we shot. I could see and hear the hits. I could never get a lock to see his hull %damage though.
I don't go out looking for PVP fights, and I know that a dedicated PVP build is advantageous. But, is it normal for a PVP build fdl to take 5 times more damage then and Elite NPC fdl? What's the method to counter this?

try focusing your fire, thrusters, power plant ect, thrusters gone down quicker than pp, i think

 

[Forlorn]

Am I the only one who suspects a hack to avoid damage, and a silent build to avoid detection of said hack?

 

[DragoonKnight]

I suppose it is possible, but how do we know he was not taking damage if there was no lock on him? He could have been at 30% hull and you would never know it without a lock.

 

[Nugstar]

Easy does it... https://youtu.be/hs789_8v09s

 

[Jesse30]

Am I the only one who suspects a hack to avoid damage, and a silent build to avoid detection of said hack?

I haven't seen anyone hacking while using a silent build. if said silent running is firing directly at you, you could maintain a lock on him and see how much damage he is taking. I suspect the OP just didn't know how to counter a silent runner, especially if he wasn't prepared for it.

 

[Derath]

hmm considering the previous methods of cheating it would be pretty disgusting actually :/ won't go into too much detail never fun to encourage it lol, however I would always make the assumption that somebody wasn't cheating unless your faced with something inexplicable any other way. Chances are it was just a hull tanking military armour job and they really take a beating.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Am I the only one who suspects a hack to avoid damage, and a silent build to avoid detection of said hack?

Yep, that's what I think as well.

I've been frequently running a fully hull-tanked FdL - and I know what such a ship can do and for how long.
Getting hammered by two Player Anacondas is something not even this Hull-Tank can take for too long.

Depends also on the Weapons, though. For cracking up a Hull-Tank, you naturally need Weapons with solid Hull penetration. An array of i.e. Pulse Lasers isn't too well suited for that.

 

[Yodafone]

Apologies if this has been said (haven't got time to read all replies) but this is something that needs rebalancing in my opinion. I'm very, very glad to see that Silent Running stealth builds have been given "some love" as they say, and the introduction of hull reinforcement packages in internal slots is a welcome addition, but... not at the sacrifice of going in to battle with shields. Dev Sandro once said - Silent Running can be used in combat, but is a high risk gambit. Somewhere down the line this "risk" has gotten lost.

Mainly I would suggest it's the high class hull reinforcement packages that do the real protection (and is the main contributor to these outrageous armour values), the slot where you'd normally have a shield fitted (and perhaps a cell bank). Perhaps this is where the improvement can be made to make the return of the "shield build" at least the primary choice. Forbid the fitting of hull reinforcement in the largest internal slots on each and every ship, so at least one can go in to battle with an SR stealth build but with some of this "risk" returned and so skill is thus required focusing of agility and manoeuverability, not just a hull tanky setup.

It is the hull reinforcement meta that has got a bit silly to the point now you're better off without shields which doesn't make a lot of sense, a simple tweak like this suggested would rebalance the disparity in my opinion.

 

[Jesse30]

if both pilots equally skill 1v1 shield tank should come out on top against a silent runner. Now the problems lies not on the new meta but in a wing battle, whoever drops in with shields is going to get all the attention because you are lighting up on the radar like a Christmas tree, imagine if the whole wing you could easily target silent runners they wouldn't be any left and all the Federals ships would become useless, and the new Meta would be shift back to FDL once again. Really boring if you ask me