1984 Elite vs 2014 Elite

TinyLewis

T
Insomnia said:
And I won't go play an old space game from 1984. I have nothing against games giving hints to what original versions was like, I don't think you can build on it.
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You won't? Hmm... ok.. try these old games from 1984(ish) and then decide if you wont

Defender
Robotron 2084
Tempest


All are very simple arcade games from 'the day'. Simple as in 8bit, limited colour palette, limited sound, and so on. But...

The first is the most fiendishly difficult (and addictive) sideways scrolling arcade shooter of all time, and still has the highest number of controls in an arcade game. You needed excellent hand-eye co-ordination and first-class reflexes to succed.
The second is the most frenetic arcade game of all time, and the first (only?) arcade game to use a dual joystick interface. Given the sheer number of baddies on-screen, complete with lasers/missiles, and the awesome sound track, its a technical marvel of its time.
Finally, Tempest is, well.... if you hate geometry you'll love tempest. A hugely fast paced vector graphics based shooter, with another thumping soundtrack and psychedelic colours.

All have had console and computer ports, sequels, follow-ups... nothign matches the originals. If you can find them in an arcade... get a pocketful of coins because they rock (and you'll also understand why each needed 300lb or so of arcade cabinet to anchor them, and why playing on a PC/console is just not the same!)

As for original Elite? The 3D wire-frame graphics were revolutionary for its time. The game concept was revolutionary. But most of all, you played out a lot of it "in your mind". In many ways, similar to a good book; a good story teller will seduce you into the book, and you'll be seeing the story in your mind... to the point where hours pass withiut notice. Elite in 1984 was the same. You stared at the screen, but you were there, man!
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
TinyLewis said:
You won't? Hmm... ok.. try these old games from 1984(ish) and then decide if you wont

Defender
Robotron 2084
Tempest

[/i]
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i hope no one minds the segue but I am a huge retrogaming fan (I even own an arcade machine with over 1000 games on).. but anyway, my point is, if you like tempest, and have access to an oculus rift you must try TxK

Sadly Atari have put the final release somewhat in limbo (utter prats that they are!, they are doing nothing with the franchise themselves and its the original dev who made it FGS)

but anyway, the demo is out, its great and worth a look.

http://www.theriftarcade.com/hands-on-with-txk-oculus-rift/
 
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Insomnia

Insomnia
It's gotten pretty obvious that I expected too much from Elite Dangerous. I wanted a beautiful space game, with 'realistic but fun' flight mechanics, the ability to actually live in space and build my own virtual life with my own stations, advancing in factions only to get rewards and titles and even special ships, NPC interactions, not having to be in super cruise 50% of the game time, etc....

For me, Elite Dangerous is all about one thing: grind credits. And while we can get bigger ships with more credits, there is no apparent purpose for grinding dem credits. Just grind for the grinds sake.
This makes the game lose something.

I've come to the conclusion that this game isn't for me. And that's ok. It's neither my fault or FD's fault.
In time, maybe ED will evolve in something that I'm looking for.


BTW, I like retro gaming as well, but from the SNES and Playstation era.
 

Armour

A
Well, this was originally going to be positioned as a budget title (£10 apparently), so maybe the game design's depth and longevity are still somewhat influenced by that original plan. Perhaps if they'd come into it with the aim of making it a full price title right off the bat, you wouldn't get anyone wondering where the rest of it is.
 

Elgered

Elgered
IMHO

2014 wins.

It's not yet "finished", doesn't have all features we wanted, but be honest it looks a bit better ;)

btw. since Asheron's Call (around 2000) it is the first windows game, that kept me glued to the screen for months and that for hours a day, like FFE did in the pre-windows era.
 

Revenheart

R
One thing I keep reading is how ED is still a "young" game and how its getting better or will get better with time.
Back in 84 it was already as good as it could get no Elite 1.1 extra black edition or 1.2 Elite with extra stars edition, programmers had to get a game out in a set amount of memory with as much impact as possible.
You could not turn round and add more memory to fix things you had to figure it out.
Sure there were bugs but none game breakers (unlike some games released today that need a 6gig patch on release day....).

Things are easier than the original:

docking now is fast and easy (I hated Elite for its docking in the original...)
Docking Then ARGHHHHHhhhh splat for several hours then screw it and hack the save to get docking computers....ahem

Trading now is less complex but feels more worth while.

Combat then was a fun shoot em up but with lasers on all sides.
Combat now is roller coaster ride of thrills spills and pew pew pew no no no eat laser death you scum sucking pirates....Damn damn damn where did his mate come from argh must get out "Power to shields" Warp Speed" hold together baby hold together... Warp out, repair get revenge....all in one breath !!! Got to love Voice Attack.

Its still a big game today as it was then just more twinkles and flashing lights but that's a good thing :)

Dont come to ED with rose tinted glasses its not the same game it just an evolvment of the game to take advantage of higher powered machines and lazy programmers (I'm one of them, What out of memory...Fetch me tech support geek I need 16 more gig !!! oh and sacrifice a goat to he bug gods just in-case....)
 

Astronut57

Astronut57
Now I like 1984 Elite but I also like 2014 Elite. But which is better? There's only one way to find out:

harry-hill-fight-ap-wdc5.jpg
 

Razor Romero

Razor Romero
@Holven. This is not 'deep.' How many times do you want to see on a Bulletin Board "CAN YOU BE THE HERO THAT *insert station name here* NEEDS?" before you realise that the missions are very repetitive and a bit pants? You can travel hundreds of light years visiting all the different factions, governments, economies and still, at every station see the same old boring missions. There must be about a dozen missions or something, I dunno, maybe a few more but after a few days of playing, you've seen them all!
And why the hell would a rich, huge population, agricultural system be suffering a famine? Harping on about the look on the faces of the poor starving children after you kindly donated your 5 tons of *COFFEE* or "insert random commodity here*
Seriously, the missions are dumb, not deep. The most fun part, in my opinion, is combat, good ol' pew pew. I think that aspect of the game is brilliant along with the sound effects and explosions.
But if I never see "CAN YOU BE THE HERO THAT *insert station name here* NEEDS?" again, it'll be too soon ;)
 

Armour

A
Razor Romero said:
@Holven. This is not 'deep.' How many times do you want to see on a Bulletin Board "CAN YOU BE THE HERO THAT *insert station name here* NEEDS?" before you realise that the missions are very repetitive and a bit pants? You can travel hundreds of light years visiting all the different factions, governments, economies and still, at every station see the same old boring missions. There must be about a dozen missions or something, I dunno, maybe a few more but after a few days of playing, you've seen them all!
And why the hell would a rich, huge population, agricultural system be suffering a famine? Harping on about the look on the faces of the poor starving children after you kindly donated your 5 tons of *COFFEE* or "insert random commodity here*
Seriously, the missions are dumb, not deep. The most fun part, in my opinion, is combat, good ol' pew pew. I think that aspect of the game is brilliant along with the sound effects and explosions.
But if I never see "CAN YOU BE THE HERO THAT *insert station name here* NEEDS?" again, it'll be too soon ;)
Click to expand...
The missions are being overhauled for 1.3, it's common knowledge and has been stated multiple times by the devs - but don't let that stop the moaning.
 

bigmuthatrukka

B
Moony2 said:
Elite 84 was a ground breaking game to be sure - but I think the real genius came with Frontier which implemented real newtonian physics (to the point you could even pull off gravitational slingshots), a fully procedural galaxy with stars, planets, moons, asteroids etc. It had seamless planetary landings and even implemented curved bezier surfaces (something you rarely if ever see in games - even today).

Frontier took Elite to a whole other level.

Yes the mission system was a bit samey after a while - but considering what they had to work with, it was pretty awesome.

With ED - it appears that although the graphics and immersion etc have got a lot better and we now have online multiplayer etc - it just doesn't seem that much more advanced in terms of mission generation, AI interaction etc than Frontier was, and in some respects (i.e. lack of planetary landings) - almost seems like a backwards step in some ways.

Graphically ED is a million miles away from Frontier - but would it be fair to say that the other aspects of the game are only a few hops skips and jumps ahead?
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Frontier was much better content wise but the Newtonian physics was utterly game breaking. I think they have found a good medium now. They seem to be planning to add all the good bits of frontier back in too. Lets see how that pans out.
 

medwyn

M
Insomnia said:
It's gotten pretty obvious that I expected too much from Elite Dangerous. I wanted a beautiful space game, with 'realistic but fun' flight mechanics, the ability to actually live in space and build my own virtual life with my own stations, advancing in factions only to get rewards and titles and even special ships, NPC interactions, not having to be in super cruise 50% of the game time, etc....

For me, Elite Dangerous is all about one thing: grind credits. And while we can get bigger ships with more credits, there is no apparent purpose for grinding dem credits. Just grind for the grinds sake.
This makes the game lose something.

I've come to the conclusion that this game isn't for me. And that's ok. It's neither my fault or FD's fault.
In time, maybe ED will evolve in something that I'm looking for.


BTW, I like retro gaming as well, but from the SNES and Playstation era.
Click to expand...

I walk on the same path really, I also miss the real chance of writing my own story in the ELITE universe.
However I did an experiment yesterday: I used my imagination.

The subject of my imagination was to bring up those memories from the 1990s and fired ED up.
The key was to bridge over the "aesthetical distance" in all the structural and mental areas and keep this emotional level up with cautiously weeding out all the reflexes which turns me back to my present moment.
It was fun actually and worked in a special way. I guess it's not different to trying to look at things always like I did it the first time. Artificial Alzheimer state.

So I had a good hour of fun which from one point of view is a kind of spiritual experience, from another it's a self-lie.
The question is what state one wants to keep up, is that a comfortable way to "make up the mind" because the game doesn't do that, etc.

In 1.3 we trust.
 

Razor Romero

Razor Romero
Armour said:
The missions are being overhauled for 1.3, it's common knowledge and has been stated multiple times by the devs - but don't let that stop the moaning.
Click to expand...
Yes, yes I know that but we're talking about the game now,in it's present state. He said it's deep, not "it may be deep at some point, after a mission re-vamp" and I didn't share that opinion. As for moaning, there's nothing wrong with a little moan, everybody does it! I also praised the game too.
I like the game and I am looking forward to the planned updates. Especially the missions ;)
 

peteuplink

peteuplink
Insomnia said:
Hey all!

I've been playing Elite Dangerous since the start of 2015 but became curious about ED at the end of last year as I just wanted a cool space game.
I had no idea there were previous Elite games. Especially not all the way from 1984. I was only three years by that time and the only game I had tried was Super Mario.

What gets me slightly troubled is that many people seem to compare the original game to ED.
This seem quite outrageous as the industry (and its croud) has changed dramatically over the past 30 years, and the average gamer demands a whole lot more than a game from '84.
On Facebook and on other social networks, I see tons of comments from people claiming refunds because the game simply is too 'simple' in its design.

Can it be that Elite Dangerous wants to be too much like its predecessor?
Or is this just my misconception of what the franchise is all about?
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As a games developer who's been around about as long as David Braben, I'm going to offer my 2p worth.

I think ED is an old game in new clothing. Graphically it looks good, but the core gameplay is basically the same game as it was in 1984. Now, ordinarily, this in and of itself would not be a bad thing as Elite was a game that was well ahead of it's time. But things have moved on in the open world sand box genre and ED suffers from retro-itis. If you go into it expecting the same thing as 1984's Elite with nicer visuals, then you won't be disappointed, but if you're looking for a deep, expansive, space simulation with some role playing elements, then you're going to come away feeling pretty cheesed off.

The original Elite is a fine game and was miles ahead of anything else at the time, but by todays standards the gameplay is a bit shallow... It was already running a bit flat by the time FE2 came around, but we were so mesmerised by the amazing technical feat of getting the galaxy onto a single floppy disk, and being able to land on planets, that we didn't really notice. They're trying to do more with ED, and they've added landing on some planets, but I think it's slightly hampered by the fact that the Elite dock, sell, buy, launch, hyperspace, dock gameplay just isn't that engaging any more and the missions still need a lot of work.

It'd be nice if the game occasionally threw you a curve ball. It's all a bit predictable and dull. We need more variety like, exploring on a planet and a giant space worm randomly pops out of a hole in the ground. or you find a hidden cave system or ruins left by an ancinet, long exitinct, civilization. A bit of space weather wouldn't go amiss either like CME's from stars or plasma storms. More variety in the universe, pirate bases hidden in asteroid belts, unsanctioned hidden outposts and trading bases on planets, that are not on the maps but can be discovered by players. Aliens really should have been in from the start. More than one "bubble", have others that are either the result of long range colony missions that have evolved into a separate race or from alien species.

Admittedly a lot of this is probably to come, but I think they should have had a much better base package to bolt it all onto...
 
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