Rift vs Vive - my perspective

[PIXEL]

,snip..
Rift - Cons

Smearing. Watching anything light in a dark Cinema for example highlights it. Also, it's like you're looking through a sheet of thin cloth sometimes - there's a pattern to the blacks/dark colours which wasn't present on the DK1/2 and is due to the freznels - will take some getting used to for light sources in dark environments - for light environments it's not noticable

thanks Slopey for the comparison - very good of you to make the effort [up]

Have you got used to the 'smearing' or read anything about a work-around as there's quite a lot on the forums about this issue with the CV1?


ps edit; hey Slopey... any chance you could have a word with your mod friends and get a Rift discussion (CV1) thread going/started? - or maybe I missed that one in the search

 

[VR Cmdr Paine]

I'm detecting a little bit of FBoy bias from the OP which is a shame, But tbh explains a lot really,

this guy knows what he's talking about:

I love my HTC VIVe but it is more like Nerd device. It's not plug and play yet. You need to think about lighthouses setup (which are better even for sitting tracking). With the correct setup I can play Elite then get up and have fun with room scale without recalibrating or moving my setup (recalibrating takes around 1 min). Adjusting straps and HMD is counterintuitive as you do not wear it as Cap with VR goggles attached but rather like head mounted flashlight where some weight is on cheeks but mostly on strap. Strap is also refusing to work and you have to pull cables - make some space so it reaches back of your head - nearly your neck. After this it is super comfy and I dosed of few times in it - snoring in AltspaceVr. Image is sharp and not blurry till 80-110 fov, same with "god rays" so it does not bother me at all. Controllers and their wand design is also great in VR games as you are mostly holding something like sword, stick, flashlight. It feels natural. Oculus seems to try to replace your hands for which I have leap motion. Check this out - https://gfycat.com/GentleFavoriteBrontosaurus . Vive controllers are now and work well. For me it is all in one package that is available now and room scale made classic games (non-simulator) boring for me.

Sadly every time I turn Elite it does not look good for me and in comparison even to Rvive moded War Thunder without official support it looks broken. Outside cockpit mid/far objects are flashing and textures are closer to Minecraft than War Thunder. As for now If Elite is your only game I would opt for rift. Easier to setup, easier to find your fit and Elite looks well.

I often jump ship and chose what is best for me. But as for oculus with controllers and vive I would still choose vive. Camera, controllers, tracking, and room scale is great. Fov seems to noticeably larger than DK2 in place where you would see ground/legs when walking. And I have to say in room scale It makes a big difference. I do not see much difference in FOV when playing sitting games so again no advantage for vive vs rift in Elite.

he's pretty much spot on the "only" thing the rift has over the Vive is the "comfort blanket" [yesnod] ease of setup doesn't really count as its such a limited device atm little more than a refined DK2.
Oculus spent far too much time with that gear VR junk to please FBook and navel gazing thinking they had the VR market all sewn up.

I would suggest the op tries hover junkers that's in a different league to anything on the rift atm, and DCS world the cockpit in the Vive is pin sharp compared to the DK2 I've owned since Sept 2014.

Ps. I am not sure why people are making such a fuss about setting up the Vive I only needed to do it once.

 

[BGog]

Just a note about the vive and you thinking it looks like a portal and has low field of view. There is a on each side of the face mask right where the straps connect. Pull them out and you can twist them to move the lenses closer or farther from your frace. I was really annoyed by the FOV then I found this, dialed it toward my face and BOOM huge FOV.

Good luck.

 

[Slopey]

I'm detecting a little bit of FBoy bias from thr OP which is a shame, But tbh explains a lot really,

This is MY opinion, and I'm trying to be neutral. I actually prefer the Vive visuals, it's just not as comfy. But if you don't like it, don't read it.

You only needed to set up the Vive once. I'm doing it two/three times a day as I swap between devices and move the lighthouses around in a limited space to test performance. The initial setup took me over an hour for the Vive, and there are gotchas like controller firmware, and the on-screen help pointing to out of date documentation. Not insurmountable, but irritating, and possibly outwith the experience of a more mainstream user - and now that Steam are flogging it hard, that's who's going to be looking at it. The headphones thing I find irritating as that was my most desired update to DK1/DK2 style devices - the buds are ok, but the built-in is way better (again, in my opinion).

I didn't say that the Rift is better for room scale - it isn't. Vive has that as its USP. I said that for ED, and personally for me, it's currently the better device. I'm looking forward to trying room scale stuff once I move some rooms around, but I'm commenting on ED only for now as I don't have the space to do room scale for a few days, and these are ED forums - there's plenty of discussion about room scale games elsewhere.

I can say with a total lack of bias, that when I put the Vive on, it's not comfortable. That's not true of the Rift. That's not bias, that's fact. Setting up the Vive is more involved than the Rift - that's fact. Getting ED to work with the Vive was more fiddly than the Rift - that's fact. I prefer the Vive visuals over the Rift - that's fact. The Oculus Home is nicer as an experience, with more free stuff, than the Vive home and SteamVR - in my humble opinion. I have both devices, I'm keeping both devices and I'll use both devices - there's no need for me to justify a single device or purchase to myself. Those are my honest, unbiased opinions, and they're worth exactly what you paid for them. Hopefully they'll be helpful to others.

But seeing as you know it all, and obviously have both - why not post your comparisons for other people to comment on? Rather than listen to my fanboi whitterings which explain alot...

 

[Slopey]

Just a note about the vive and you thinking it looks like a portal and has low field of view. There is a on each side of the face mask right where the straps connect. Pull them out and you can twist them to move the lenses closer or farther from your frace. I was really annoyed by the FOV then I found this, dialed it toward my face and BOOM huge FOV.

Good luck.

Ahhhhhh - so that's where that is. I've been looking for some way to do that. Thanks

 

[Slopey]

thanks Slopey for the comparison - very good of you to make the effort [up]

Have you got used to the 'smearing' or read anything about a work-around as there's quite a lot on the forums about this issue with the CV1?

I don't think there'll be a work around - it's the freznels. Smearing/godrays are present on both the Rift and the Vive - so far, the vive has slightly less, but when playing ED on the Rift I didn't really notice them unless I was looking for them, or coming up on something very bright a dark field of view - it's not a deal breaker for either device. The ones on the vive show off more of the freznel pattern where as they're 'smoother' on the Rift, but that's not really an issue either.

hey Slopey... any chance you could have a word with your mod friends and get a Rift discussion (CV1) thread going/started? - or maybe I missed that one in the search

I'll check and see if there's one already - otherwise, start one If it's worthy, it'll get busy, and someone will sticky it

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

There is a on each side of the face mask right where the straps connect. Pull them out and you can twist them to move the lenses closer or farther from your face. I was really annoyed by the FOV then I found this, dialed it toward my face and BOOM huge FOV.

I saw this on the Tested review. Its a good feature for the Vive, and allows you to adjust the eye relief (and somewhat individually) for each eye. Too much difference between the eyes will probably look wierd?

How is this adjusted on the Rift CV1? Just strap tension/squishing it onto your face?

Honestly, for both units I'm surprised by the relative lack of user guides, considering both companies have had their consumer versions for some time, probably had multiple users testing them and finding the best ways to put them on, take them off etc. They're kinda leaving it to us to find out.

The hazards of early adoption I guess!

July I hate you'se all July...

 

[Gunner Deckard]

Thanks for your reviews Slopey. Thanks for taking the time to give us your view.

 

[wstephenson]

I'm just going over your posts and trying to put together your current opinion on the visuals. So the quality of the Fresnel artifacts is what makes you say "I actually prefer the Vive visuals"? What's your assessment of the FOV for both, for ED, after discovering the eye relief adjusters on the Vive?

I have a Vive on the way, but I've been very active following the 'bad AA/angular resolution' threads around ED on Vive and I am concerned it's just the way the Vive's optical design and ED/Cobra's inability to use the recommended MSAA come together, and Vive won't be able to match the Rift's IQ. I wear glasses, so before this I was tending towards Vive, but ED is my main use case - I'll enjoy room scale but I don't expect it will be more than a toy.

I'm considering just flipping the Vive on ebay and putting any profit away for a rainy day, Pascal GPUs and wider Rift availabilty.

 

[Space Dandy]

I'm just going over your posts and trying to put together your current opinion on the visuals. So the quality of the Fresnel artifacts is what makes you say "I actually prefer the Vive visuals"? What's your assessment of the FOV for both, for ED, after discovering the eye relief adjusters on the Vive?

I have a Vive on the way, but I've been very active following the 'bad AA/angular resolution' threads around ED on Vive and I am concerned it's just the way the Vive's optical design and ED/Cobra's inability to use the recommended MSAA come together, and Vive won't be able to match the Rift's IQ. I wear glasses, so before this I was tending towards Vive, but ED is my main use case - I'll enjoy room scale but I don't expect it will be more than a toy.

I'm considering just flipping the Vive on ebay and putting any profit away for a rainy day, Pascal GPUs and wider Rift availabilty.

Wondering what slopeys thinks about the FOV too now that he knows about the vive adjustments.

Slopey do you still feel the rift still has a "wider" view than the vive now that you know how to adjust the vive lenses or has adjusting the vive better made the fov wider so it compares to the rift?

 

[Slopey]

I've adjusted the Vive lens position now, and the FOV is the same for me on both devices to be honest - I don't notice a difference. On paper, the Vive might be wider (and higher in the vertical), but it's not noticeable compared with the Rift.

As regards the smearing/godrays etc - they both exhibit it. The Vive *appears* to have less, but when you do see them, you see the circular fresnel pattern which you don't on the rift, it's more of a smooth glow. It's sort of difficult to describe unless you can see it - it reminds me a bit of the Superman 1 movie titles with the afterglow from the text. I get it most in the Rift when watching a movie in one of the cinema experiences. I'll try and do the "unlock Rift content on Vive" thing, and see if I can get the Vive into the same experience, or find a 3rd party cinema app on SteamVR so I can compare like for like.

In ED, you don't really notice it - especially if you're flying around. Again, hard to compare, because the Vive resolution in ED is much lower than the Rift, so that's not a fair comparison to draw.

 

[wstephenson]

When you mention the Superman 1 titles, it makes me think of video effects done using analogue CRT TV cameras. We are old.

Thanks for the clarification FOV. Now would you just go into a little more detail on your preference for the Vive visuals?

I hear that Whirligig (http://store.steampowered.com/app/451650/) is the go-to video player on Vive.

 

[Slopey]

Yep - got that in my cart already - I'll try the same video with both devices and report back.

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

Slopey just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experiences, very useful. I'm feeling slightly less nervous about my Rift pre-order now (not that I could afford the Vive).

VR noob question - is the black smearing the same as the god rays or are these two different things?

ps edit; hey Slopey... any chance you could have a word with your mod friends and get a Rift discussion (CV1) thread going/started? - or maybe I missed that one in the search

One was started: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=241558 but it seems to have died, perhaps because it was not sticked and perhaps because it's easier (IMO) to seperate the various discussions into seperate threads.

 

[Derage]

I've adjusted the Vive lens position now, and the FOV is the same for me on both devices to be honest - I don't notice a difference. On paper, the Vive might be wider (and higher in the vertical), but it's not noticeable compared with the Rift.

I find that so hard to believe since the Vive really has a bigger FOV, I haven't experienced both for myself yet, but unless the lenses are still not the same distance from the eyes in both devices (which is possible) you should be seeing more with the Vive. Because it's specifically meant to give you a better view in Room play. Specifically they did it so you could see where you were walking more easily. I don't know how this affects playing games like Elite but I can imagine you should be able to see more of the cockpit too, especially up and/or down.

Sorry for not believing you but if every other reviewer out there says the FOV really is different I just find it hard to believe you're saying they're the same.

 

[Slopey]

Sorry for not believing you but if every other reviewer out there says the FOV really is different I just find it hard to believe you're saying they're the same.

You can believe what you want. I have both here, and for *me*, there's no great difference between them. Just my opinion - ymmv.

Follow up - tested again:

Ok - using Vive Home as the test reference (as my Rift drops into that first when launching ED in VR mode anyway). The Vive has a slightly higher vertical FOV, but it's slightly higher only - not a revelation. It's difficult to describe if you haven't seen it, but the Vive Home has a grid on the floor, and a skybox with clouds in the distance, and a moon in the top right. There's a large cloud on the right side which is an obvious feature, and both the Rift and Vive's vertical FOV extends to the same point at that cloud. Vertically, in the Rift, I can see the lip of the moon (using the bottom play area circle as a point of reference), whilst in the Vive, I can see maybe a 3rd of the moon. I would suggest that this isn't much more than a 3-5 degree difference - it is larger vertically on the Vive, but unless you're looking for it, you wouldn't notice imho.

In ED, sat in an Eagle, in a station hangar, with the bottom of the view on the blue line of the right hand seat panel (with the buttons), with head in the same place with respect to the "body", the view in the Rift/Vive is identical. I've checked it against the pipework at the top, and they both get to the same place. Sideways wise, it's also the same - the base of the first set of struts in the circular lift area are where it extends to on both headsets.

Now that I have the lenses better positioned in the Vive, I'm starting to see more godrays - and they have the annoying habit of being in a circular fresnel pattern - it's like lens glare with the fresnel lines visible. It's different on the Rift as the godrays are smooth - you don't see the fresnel pattern, but looking at the lenses with the units off, the Vive has a prounounced circular fresnel, where as the Rift circular lines are way way thinner - it would appear they are 4x thiner than the gradations in the Vive - certainly too small to count, whereas you can count the ones in the Vive.

So - I'm not seeing a massive difference in FoV tbh.

 

[Spam]

Are you really sure there's no discernible FOV difference? The internets say otherwise. (jk)

Anymore joy on wearing glasses in either device?

 

[Derage]

You can believe what you want. I have both here, and for *me*, there's no great difference between them. Just my opinion - ymmv.

So? I've seen a lot of reviewers comparing them side-by-side too and they do see a great difference between both device FOVs. When all of them (as far as I've seen) all say that there really is a difference I just find it highly doubtful when you're saying the exact opposite, considering you said the FOV on the Rift seems bigger in the first post. Although that was before knowing about being able to adjust the lenses, which leads me to think you kind of 'reviewed' them prematurely without really knowing what one or both devices are really capable of. This is not criticizing you for having an opinion, but when 9 out of 10 reviewers says 'this' and you 'that' I find the other 9 more believable and I think you missed something. To be honest, it's not even a matter of opinion, it's a fact that the FOV on the Vive should be bigger (considering the specs/hardware and HTC empathizing on the fact they did it for being able to see the floor in Room play), so I believe the lenses are not set up correctly or both devices must sit on your head really different from each other.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Been reading this thread and have to say from my perspective as a CV1 owner Slopey's descriptions match everything I've concluded about both of these head-sets. There doesn't seem to be a vast difference in the viewing experience technology which both have pros & cons and it always seems to come down to whether you want the extra features that the Vive ships with. There just isn't an easy answer to which is best and it really isn't a format war (afaik). For all we know in a few years the market could be flooded with new head-sets all virtually the same and it might be as difficult a decision as buying any other peripheral like a monitor or HOTAS. The best head-set for you is likely to be whatever you choose to go with.

Not had the opportunity to try out the Vive but yeah the CV1 is a remarkable ED experience especially when you do a little moving around the cockpit. Last night I landed a Viper in a planetary outpost and after landing stood up, turned around and reached out for the grab-rail that wasn't really there, the feeling was very much like getting up from your seat after landing in an airport, if only I could open the hatch.

 

[Slopey]

So? I've seen a lot of reviewers comparing them side-by-side too and they do see a great difference between both device FOVs. When all of them (as far as I've seen) all say that there really is a difference I just find it highly doubtful when you're saying the exact opposite, considering you said the FOV on the Rift seems bigger in the first post. Although that was before knowing about being able to adjust the lenses, which leads me to think you kind of 'reviewed' them prematurely without really knowing what one or both devices are really capable of. This is not criticizing you for having an opinion, but when 9 out of 10 reviewers says 'this' and you 'that' I find the other 9 more believable and I think you missed something. To be honest, it's not even a matter of opinion, it's a fact that the FOV on the Vive should be bigger (considering the specs/hardware and HTC empathizing on the fact they did it for being able to see the floor in Room play), so I believe the lenses are not set up correctly or both devices must sit on your head really different from each other.

So go buy one and tell me what you think comparing them side by side. Whether the internets say the sky should be falling or not, it's identical as far as I can tell in ED. But if you don't want to believe me, that's your opinion, but no matter how much you say "the internets say you're lying" - I can't discern any appreciable difference.

If you've already got one and not the other - it's irrelevant, you have what you have. Either way - it's not going to be a big enough reason for you to choose a device.

You either want the Room scale, or you don't.

You either want built in headphones, or you don't.

You either want the Vive controllers, or you want the Rift ones later in the year.

You either have space for room scale or you don't.

Those are the factors which will lead you to a purchase decision most likely, not a couple of degrees vertical FOV.

Not sure what your vested interest is in telling me that what I'm seeing with my own eyes in the actual hardware is wrong. Maybe the other reviewers are wrong, maybe they didn't use exactly the same experience to compare them - I've made very sure I'm in the exact same VR experience, in the correct place, with set references, for both comparisons. I'm also 100% sure I have the headsets configured correctly. Do you have a DK1/2/Rift or Vive? Anyone who has used VR knows that the experience can be quite subjective, and many different people don't experience the same thing.


I'm going to stop bothering reviewing these any more, because people telling me that what I'm actually observing is not what I'm observing is getting tedious. I'm not some VR newbie, I've built Unity games using the DK1/DK2, built engineering visualisations using them, I know my IPD, and I know how to set up and use both the Vive and Rift.

So - take it or leave it, or even better - go buy one or both, and see for yourself.

*sigh*