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Suggestion: Combat Python
- Thread starter kafolarbear
- Start date
I love my Python a lot. At the moment it's my choice of weapon for fighting in hazRES. I realize it's not the best warship but it can dish out a lot of damage and take a beating. I loved my Vulture for its agility, I love the Python for its versatility. Next step up for me won't be FAS or FDL but another multi-role ship: Anaconda.
Even though I think the Python has been nerfed a bit too much, I still think it's an awesome ship that doesn't need a separate combat version. For pure combat, there are better choices anyway.
Even though I think the Python has been nerfed a bit too much, I still think it's an awesome ship that doesn't need a separate combat version. For pure combat, there are better choices anyway.
I have never felt outclassed in mine, although i'm a PvE player so perhaps that's why. I'm one step away from Elite in combat all done in the python. The only ship i have any problem with is the imperial Clipper which i have a hard time getting behind, as it always wants to sit on your nose and hammer away at you head on.
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This is a spot on analysis i feel pretty invulnerable with the military Armour and 6A's but if i do have to drag myself off to a station nine times out of ten its because the canopy is either blown or about to.
FD create ship variants. People complain.
FD don't create ship variants. People demand ship variants.
FD don't create ship variants. People demand ship variants.
I liked the Cobra MK IV.
It's like a mini Python.
It does have a quite distinct feel from the Cobra MK III, though, which is more like a mini ASP Explorer.
So .. I guess the "combat Python" would feel distinctly different, too. More like .. a FDL? Or a FGS? ... Or a Clipper, which is the speedy and "large" multirole ship in that bunch.
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They made variants?
I always thought variants were the best way to get the most life out of the ship selection personally especially for the smaller ships.I find it interesting that if you only read the thread you would think very few people want a combat Python variant, yet if you look at the poll, it seems about equal.
-CMDR Kbear
-CMDR Kbear
If they come up with a combat variant of the Python, I won't complain.
But I also think (hope) with some engineering help, the one I have can be more adequate.
But I also think (hope) with some engineering help, the one I have can be more adequate.
If they come up with a combat variant of the Python, I won't complain.
But I also think (hope) with some engineering help, the one I have can be more adequate.
I am not confident that enineers can fix the problem, they are only there to modify weapons, right? However, if I can modify modules or the ship itself, I will be more than satisfied.
CMDR Kbear
Are we talking 1v1 or wing fights here? I'm yet to lose a 1v1 in my Python (against anything smaller than another Python) although admittedly against good pilots I have to fly backwards because they can outmaneuver me so easily. With 2x6 and 2x5 SCB banks you can just take so much punishment compared to a FAS and an FDL so provided you can actually hit them (flying backwards) you can't really lose. In a wing fight it's different of course, it's really dangerous flying a Python against a few FDLs/FASes.. And the other day I did make a stupid mistake and took a ram from a FAS in a wing fight after I'd inadvertently taken my PIPs out of shields briefly. Fortunately although that took my shields down, it also left the FAS very damaged and my wing mates soon drove him off.
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I'm all for more ships and more variants. Especially ones in the 20-ish million and up price range, and even more so on the higher end of that.
The lower priced ships seem to have great diversity, but beyond that, the diversity starts to drop off a lot, with an accelerated drop if you are not an Imperial or a Fed.
If a Python Mk II is a part of more diversity for higher-end ships, bring it.
I'd also love to see Keelback-ized T7's, a new non-faction entry or two or three (Asp sorta fits I guess) in the FDS/AS/GS/Clipper range, and some more competition in the FDL/Python level. I want to see Faulcon Delacy's answer to the FDL, and Zorgon's answer to the Python. And then see Lakon jump in the fray with 50-millionish Explorer ship.
The lower priced ships seem to have great diversity, but beyond that, the diversity starts to drop off a lot, with an accelerated drop if you are not an Imperial or a Fed.
If a Python Mk II is a part of more diversity for higher-end ships, bring it.
I'd also love to see Keelback-ized T7's, a new non-faction entry or two or three (Asp sorta fits I guess) in the FDS/AS/GS/Clipper range, and some more competition in the FDL/Python level. I want to see Faulcon Delacy's answer to the FDL, and Zorgon's answer to the Python. And then see Lakon jump in the fray with 50-millionish Explorer ship.
the one thing i would like to see is improvised variants of aging craft designs. Sure fluff wise, the anaconda and the python were both used primarily as warships, however its clear their effectiveness as a warship has degraded and their usefulness into other roles has propelled them into steady workhorse roles. So why dont we have upgraded versions of these ships that make them just as effective as the top of the line warships. We all know that if something stops working, you change something up. You still see F-15's and F-16's being redesigned today, even when there are next generation aircraft being pitched.
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Why? Because the FDL, FAS and Vulture are different play styles than the Python, the Python is like a tank and is meant to be heavy at the cost of speed and manueverbility; plus, I like the utilitarian feel of the Python over the luxury feel of the FDL, the vulture does not have enough weapons to be competitive in PvP, and the FAS... well the federation, alliance all the way!
-CMDR Kbear
You know what I hate?
I hate when you rep the OP and then they say something great in the next post and you can't rep that.
I've got no rank and negative rep for Empire. which makes me happy.
Unfortunately I'm going to have to rank up a bit Fed, but I think of it like:"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
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If I remember my Elite lore correctly, the Anaconda was originally an armed freighter.
There's only so much you can do to an older design to make them competitive with cutting-edge technology. Take Battleships for example. The OG battleships were the old age of sail Battle Ship of the Line, a wooden ship that carried more guns than say a frigate. Now compare that to the late 19th century dreadnoughts which are the first ships you might visualize as battleships. There is no way you can convert that age of sail ship to be competitive with the dreadnought. You can replace the hull with iron and the sails with steam turbines and load the decks with Armstrong Guns, but the hull design itself is physically incapable of competing with the more advanced ship. That's basically what the current iteration of the Python is, and should be about as far as you can push that hull design. You'd basically be designing an all-new ship that would replace the Python entirely rather than retrofitting an old warhorse to compete with patterns that are 500 years newer.
Actually, within many military designs the limitations aren't exactly met. Especially as the decades change and technology changes there have been many MANY aged MBT and fighter designs that have been gutted out of aged parts and upgraded to modern specs, and while they may not compete with the latest and greatest, they can sure do their fair share.
As for the ship of the line, we watched as in the 16th-19th centuries naval technology propelled at an explosive rate, from breechloaded cannons, wood framed ships to ironclads with rifled guns and steam cannons. However navies weren't progressively upgrading their ships like we have seen in World War 1 and World War 2 where naval advancements were made and quickly placed on ships, from upgraded Fire Control Systems to Radars, and the reasoning for this could of been very simple. So whats the difference here? The timing! In the 16th century you had to work your fingers to the bone to complete one ship within one year, where as in the 20th century, they were churning out Aircraft carriers in eight months, and smaller classes! Weeks!
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As MVP_Bluntman pointed out, you're confusing evolution of technology for revolution in technology.
Age of Sail ships are completely outclassed by Dreadnoughts not because ship design evolved beyond then, but because there was a total revolution in ship design. In terms of game lore, there has not been a similar revolution in spaceship design in the past few hundred years, which is why much older designs are still viable. Most technology reaches a "good enough" point where there diminishing returns on improvement, until you have a total revolution and entirely new direction and design concept. In Elite, spacecraft reached this point hundreds of years ago, and there's been no revolution.
The examples you see of rapid technological advancement in aircraft (which has been tapering off gradually since the around 1960's, to be honest) or computers (which, from a gaming stand point, is already starting to taper off compared to the late 1990's) are the rare bursts, spurred by recent revolution. It is not the norm, however. The norm is for tech to be strongly viable for hundreds of years or more.
The age of sail ended post-industrialization and ironclads and sailing ships co-existed for a time, largely because the early ironclads were upgraded timber-frame ships or simply upscaled versions of such (the Warrior for example). It was a period of quite rapid change because the technological leap was so vast between pre and post industrialism. To take a more modern example, you can put all the computers and missile launchers you like on an archaic WW2 battleship you like but it will still underperform compared to a newly-built vessel. While battleships have been phased out, probably more as a response to the lack of pitched naval battles taking place with conventional cannons in the last 60 years, we do have missile cruisers. And a modern missile cruiser is a much more effective 'battleship' (a role it wasn't really designed for) than a relic from the 40's in today's world. I suppose one could make a modern battleship with all the bells and whistles just to prove that point further but that'd be a huge waste of money.
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Industrialization really altered that paradigm, and miniaturization further supercharged it. Massive leaps in technology in almost every field imaginable have taken place over the last 50 years compared to the entire 1st millenium. Heck even the first half of the 20th century doesn't even compare to the latter half. It's practically night and day.
But I suppose Elite universe logic could work differently, where technology has stagnated for hundreds or thousands of years at a time despite humanity being shotgunned all over space. It's giving me WH40k flashbacks.
That's largely true, but industrialization and miniaturization were revolutions. They had a huge impact, but they're subject to the same process of diminishing returns on change as every other revolution before them.
Indeed. Only so many transistors you can cram into a cubic centimeter of a microchip. There are new possible paradigm shifts on the horizon though, stable nuclear fusion reactors and quantum computing being two possibilities though neither is even past the prototype stage yet.
I guess the point I was trying to get at was the Python's hull may be at the theoretical limits of what can be done without doing a completely new design.