Cutting on minor factions number?

With the new update, I see that we move from faceless mission from a faction, to static faces with names and such.

While the change is mainly for comfort to get the feeling to talk with a human being (waiting for the first person module one day), overall it doesn't seem to change a particular issue that I see with the mission screen: there are too many factions.

Every system has their own, and while they will theoretically expand, from what I understand hearing in the livestream about states; we still have a ton of systems with a ton of factions.

In ED, quantity is the paramount, and it seems that people like that (tons of places that you may never see, oh well, but is there), at the same time, isn't the excessive number of factions and mission givers, causing lack of attachment to any faction? IF you stay in a system for most of the time, then it make sense to grind to gain faction points, but if you travel and often never go back to a specific system, the concept of grind for the sake of it, just to complete another faction, feel almost like a duty, more than pleasure.

We have powers to give a sense of global scale organization, but for minor factions, we could benefit from a lesser number, which would give more missions maybe, to keep people interested, but in different systems.
This may end up causing grind allergy to certain players. And with the Engineers tied to certain factions, where you must raise your affiliation with a specific faction to gain the location of the engineer, it is the equivalent of a roulette, where you grind a faction, discover that you get no engineer location, and move to the next.

Hence, I would love to see LESS factions, but spread widely through the inhabited space...give me a reason to care about these people; slapping a static face on the mission givers does not make me feel more interested in their factions, to be honest. Ideally, the engineer location should be rewarded if you take any of the factions and make it become the dominant faction in that system; that would make more sense IMO, for the gaming perspective.
Which would also avoid the downside of having a player discovering which faction reward with the engineer location, and share it. Of course you need to grind rare material to get the modifications done, so from Frontier perspective, it doesn't matter how long it takes to players to find the engineers, the grind is still the wall to avoid that every player will get the overpowered modifications.

I find so hard to find anything in this game that give me a sense of attachment; and the sheer number of places to go and minor factions only accentuate that feeling. Probably the majority is just fine.
 
They dont want to remove factions (yet).

But the 2.1 update will bring a retreat state. So factions away from "home" will go home if their influence is constantly too low in a remote system.
 
Well, if they retreat in their home system, it won't change much, right?

From the perspective of the simulation, it is good, but from the perspective of the player; I can't see much of an advantage.

If I am grinding already with any random faction I find, because I trave and take missions that I like; the retreat of a faction won't really modify much...By the time they retreat, I may be 100 LY away.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't really follow the logic here.

If you're a vagrant CMDR who doesn't care much for factions, what does it matter if there are too many factions?

I assume the OP is saying that they'd care more about factions if there were fewer of them.

Personally, I like the large number of factions. It matches with the scale of human space. The human population of the galaxy is in the trillions; I'd expect there to be millions of factions of all kinds in that mix.

Three changes I'd have liked to see in the faction mix:

- Spontaneous generation of new factions. If a Democracy becomes unpopular, a new Dictatorship faction should spontaneously appear; things like that.
- Faction numbers in proportion to system population. Robigo and 17 Draconis are tiny, they should only have one faction. Sol is huge, there should be thousands of factions there.
- Faction allegiance change. It shouldn't be easy or common, but it should be possible to, for example, bring a popular Independent democracy into the Federation or Alliance, rather than be forced to destroy it and replace it with a foreign democratic party.
 
Well, if they retreat in their home system, it won't change much, right?

From the perspective of the simulation, it is good, but from the perspective of the player; I can't see much of an advantage.

If I am grinding already with any random faction I find, because I trave and take missions that I like; the retreat of a faction won't really modify much...By the time they retreat, I may be 100 LY away.


I don't think factions will be able to retreat from their home system as that would kill the faction which they haven't said is possible nor have they said they are going to add the ability to do that.

edit:fixed tenses
 
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At the very least, put a stop to the crazy expansion. Just a few minutes ago I visited a system which had only ONE original faction left, all others are foreign invaders.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't really follow the logic here.

If you're a vagrant CMDR who doesn't care much for factions, what does it matter if there are too many factions?

And this is how I did play so far; I don't care about the factions, I run missions, cash out and move to the next system.

But with the introduction of the engineers, unless I got it wrong, you will get their location through grinding with specific factions, that at one point will share with you, the location of the engineer base, if your standing is high enough.

This cause 2 issues: the blind grinding at random, to get the right faction that give you access to the engineer location (and you can't just go to the engineer base, from what I understand, you have to be introduced), and the fact that beside the grinding, there is fundamentally no attachment to a specific faction per se; which is why I pointed out that make more sense to help ANY minor faction to get to the point where they control a system, and then you will get your "introduction" to the engineer. In this way it doesn't matter where I am, I can continue to wander, max out one faction at random, and get to the engineer base.

Plus, beside the engineers, I would love to care for a faction; ED is probably the most introverted MMO ever made (if an MMO could be introverted or extroverted of course). Too many of them, and you really could care less.
 
I assume the OP is saying that they'd care more about factions if there were fewer of them.

Personally, I like the large number of factions. It matches with the scale of human space. The human population of the galaxy is in the trillions; I'd expect there to be millions of factions of all kinds in that mix.

Three changes I'd have liked to see in the faction mix:

- Spontaneous generation of new factions. If a Democracy becomes unpopular, a new Dictatorship faction should spontaneously appear; things like that.
- Faction numbers in proportion to system population. Robigo and 17 Draconis are tiny, they should only have one faction. Sol is huge, there should be thousands of factions there.
- Faction allegiance change. It shouldn't be easy or common, but it should be possible to, for example, bring a popular Independent democracy into the Federation or Alliance, rather than be forced to destroy it and replace it with a foreign democratic party.

Yes, less faction makes me care about them, develop an attachment; like you do with races in star trek for example.

Your point is based on quantity; so it is logic that 400B systems must have a plethora of factions; to scale with.
But to me; it is just a kaleidoscope of variety that is only for the stats; I find so hard to get immersed in this universe, RP wise; because there is nothing literally to be attached to.

Not even your ship, because they all look the same (paint jobs won't cut it for me), you have no NPC, no crew, it is just you out there, and while it is consistent with Elite spirit, feel like a step backward in 2016, for gaming in general. Even Elite II on Amiga had more immersion; a game from a long forgotten age (in IT terms of course).

I am all for variety, but when implemented right; as is now it is a bunch of people in a minor faction in some remote system that you won't really even consider to read the mission text; just tell me what do I have to kill and where to take the cargo to, so I can get my money. I would never imagine that I would buy a voice pack, just to have something engaging to do while I play, and act like if I am in fact doing RP with my ship computer at least. That goes beyond the factions, sorry for the detour.

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The main problem with excess factions is that most of them will be at <5% and no control of stations and yet their missions will be cluttering up the board while the faction you want to support has none.

Bingo ^

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At the very least, put a stop to the crazy expansion. Just a few minutes ago I visited a system which had only ONE original faction left, all others are foreign invaders.


That too; it seems like risk, where no matter what is your fleet power; you just steal a territory to get a card, and leave there one army.
 
I don't think factions will be able to retreat from their home system as that would kill the faction which they haven't said is possible nor have they said they are going to add the ability to do that.

edit:fixed tenses


I don't believe that I mention anything about "retreat from their home system" :) I sad "in their home system"; which I agree is grammatically incorrect....should be "to their home system".
I like the idea of the background simulation, with factions skirmishing for power in their system or with neighboring systems; but in my eyes, there should be a major faction, that has control over 10-15 systems; and maybe one opposing faction; with a random faction in one or 2 systems out of the 10-15 systems. In this way, you still retain that feeling of tug-o-war among the factions, but it is more entertaining for the player.

Simulate reality in a game, is not necessarily a success; otherwise why do we have sound in space and explosions?
 
Haven't you read the writing on your windscreen: "To stop the ship simulating sounds in space, break glass" ?

Someone removed the sticker from my ship, probably.

Although; why whould you break the canopy and expect the simulated sounds to stop? A pilot wear a helmet, the sound transmit from the ship to his helmet, not through the air in the cockpit...since they are simulated :
Or do we assume that the pilot does not wear the helmet in the cockpit, and put it on when the canopy break?

I have to ask the mechanic when I do my cooler fluid change on my diamondback
 
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Haven't you read the writing on your windscreen: "To stop the ship simulating sounds in space, break glass" ?

Since they're adding in the option to turn off traffic controllers, they could similarly do the same with all sound effects. People could sit in a vacuum and then jump when something slams into their hull and their ship goes spiraling out of control like this... I bet they turn it back on real quick. :)

[video=youtube;bBO3mjktETQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBO3mjktETQ[/video]
 
If there were less factions around, I couldn't do nice little graphs like these:
98eqdx.jpg

.
There are many systems where not much happens, but when you get lots of CMDRs in a system it can get quite interesting.
 
If there were less factions around, I couldn't do nice little graphs like these:
http://i65.tinypic.com/98eqdx.jpg
.
There are many systems where not much happens, but when you get lots of CMDRs in a system it can get quite interesting.

Indeed I like nice pictures with lines, that show like something is happening, while you fly your ship from A to B and everything feel exactly the same.

Jokes aside, I am not against having multiple factions, I am against the way that the game portray every space system as a single entity where factions may rise and fall, and fluctuate security in the system or the price of certain goods.

If we look at the real world examples, it is like being in North Africa basically, where tribes rule each small area, and you travel around the continent, minding your business.

I believe would be more engaging to have less factions, 2 major ones with 1-2 random factions here and there, and all of this spread over 10-15 systems. There is an engaging situation, where players can support faction A or B or help the poor guys of the random factions, which most realistically has no part in all of this, and simply want to be sure to not end up dead or starved by the conflict.

That would be engaging, and we could have an impact as players, and at the same time develop a sort of affection toward factions.

IF they would just spread factions over a larger area, I believe it would work better. Quality not quantity...same old dualism in ED, since alpha.
 
There are reasons to care about specific minor factions, they're just not necessarily heavily promoted by the game. They include:

- You've got in-game friends who support Faction X, so you want to be on "their side".
- You find a system that has some meaning to you personally, and support a specific faction you find there. Examples: do you like dogs? Maybe support Sirius Corporation. Are you a Star Trek fan? Then you might want to fly to Leonard Nimoy station orbiting Vulcan and support a faction there. Are you a veteran of earlier Elite games? Then consider supporting factions that reinforce the old lore. Or maybe there's a star in the game with the same name as yourself, or your significant other, or some other friend or family member.
- Likewise, you might happen to find a minor faction whose name (either randomly generated or manually inserted) appeals to you.
- Take part in Community Goals. Many players become attached to local factions during Community Goals, and stay behind in the system (or frequently return) once the CG is over. This is especially true for combat-related CGs; ask any veteran of the Lugh war.
- Go to the Player Faction subforum and check out the recruitment threads - see if any of them appeal to you. Some offer RP reasons for joining, some offer other reasons. You might find something that convinces or convicts you.
- Pure RP reasons: "I was born in Arexack and Uncle Jimbo who raised me told me that Imperial slavers took my parents, so I'll support any faction in Arexack that's not Imperial". That sort of thing.

You can also care about one or more of the major factions (superpowers: Empire, Federation, Alliance) and so you travel to the border regions or disputed zones and attempt to expand "your" team's sphere of influence by supporting them and/or by opposing "the enemy" factions. where a whole bunch of pro-Alliance supporters are trying their best to turn the whole starmap green. Players who do this sort of strategic BGS manipulation tend to favour a whole bunch of specific minor factions, rather than just one.
 
Many factions are indeed spreading over large areas. Some of these are doing so without players conciously trying to do anything with the BGS. Some factions are being actively expanded and in some cases suppressed.
The Epsilon Indi graph shows the effect of a CG on a system, the Wolf 1301 one is a player faction recovering from an attempt by other players to suppress their faction.
 
I agree with OP

Actually there should be fewer NPCs to.
And CMDRs much less CMDRs

And people - jeez have you ever been to a big city?
People everywhere.
And I don't care about any of them.
Get rid of them.

Oh except this one time.
I lived in Redfern for like ten years.
And I did all these things with people.

Missions you you might call them.

I started a recording studio in an old meat works. Played in bands. Fell in love.
Made lots of good stuff happen. Got beat up.

And uh yeah, that became my home.

Community is is about knowing people and being known.

If you don't get out of the car and do some things with people then you won't connect to a place.

And you know - you still won't care much about the folks you don't know.
 
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