Dangerous Discussion

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Zeta Legion

Z
Bran Tse Mallory said:
OP, please name any game or software package and I will reduce it to nothing more than the following:

Turn on the PC
Read stuff
Click stuff
Repeat until bored
Turn off the PC

For instance I loaded up GTA V the other day, I pressed F to get in the car and then held W for quite a while with the occasional tap of D and A but never S, that's for carebears.... Later I pressed E again and held W while moving the mouse from side to side. A couple of times I even had to click the mouse button but I hear that is being addressed in an up-coming patch so I wont have to do that anymore!

My point is if your not enjoying a game it can easily be broken down to a basic set of actions which you will then justify as being shallow and meaningless. On the subject of GTA V am I right in thinking the game is nothing more than a grind fest forced upon the player with no real depth to the players actions and no lasting effects either or are the thousands of players playing it each day and having a blast correct?

The painful truth is that both of us are right because it is all about personal perception, something you seem to have forgotten by attempting to talk for the whole community. While I admit to being a fanboy I have also posted my personal feelings about the direction of the game and welcomed everyone's response both good and bad.
Click to expand...

This sounds fun, can I play?

Do Call of Duty. Any one, I don't care.
 

COOPER TTE

COOPER TTE
When did we make it so when a post is made from thought and belief, we have to draw battle-lines first and then (maybe) later get onto discussing the topic?

@Derthek - to me you really are decent, affable player and amazing contributor (forum and game) and I can see and feel where this has come from.

I can't really agree though, and wonder if the post is a bit of an over-reaction. The game is what it is (pretty much what is has always been in it's most basic form) and we've all got tons of pleasure out of it. I'm sure much more to come too.

But falling into the trap of "it should have this, it needs that or it will die" etc out of frustration of the current game state and your own place at the time isn't the way to go, if you were to ask me. Nor is advising the Dev team in this way. Contribute and recommend, as you have many times, please - but it's easy for each of us to think *we* have the grasp of what the playerbase needs and when it's really just how ourselves feel at a given moment.

The game IS beautiful. It isn't dull, although it can certainly generate dull moments! But then, it can suddenly surprise with a sequence you havent encountered before, or a new addition, or a clue to something....

You can still have hope. Right now you're a bit down, but you'll be back up again. (Note to all; 'Burnout' is actually a thing, not just a buzzword you see on the forums. If you feel a bit jaded, take a break for a short while - there are MILLIONS of other games out there, and there's RL too!)

I think it's really unfair to say that FD are just remaking '84 and not injecting creative and expressive improvements. I think that's exactly what it is doing, and was always mean to do. PG is a bonus that fleshes things out even further, but not the problem if you ask me.

And lastly: I really love FTL - discovered it early on and played to death. But really, THAT is a modernised text adventure. THIS is really not :)
 

Vorxian

Vorxian
ED is a framework, a damned good framework. I have my frustrations, I'm sure everyone reading these forums has their frustrations to..

BUT, I have my frustrations everwhere.. nowhere is perfect, yet there's a small group of people out there, sitting at their desks working furiously trying to earn a healthy living, and creating us all a game for entertainment. They do it because they're passionate about this game, a game that they would want to play to. And without brown-nosing too much, they're doing a fine fine job of it.

So whilst OP may refer to ED being a 'text based, hollow, plain Jane (no offense Jane!), boring experience, I may quickly cast my mind back to Saturday when a good friend of mine joined the ED ranks, purchased the game, and after an hour of re-configuring controls, and taking off for the first time in his side-winder, his opinion is the stark contrast of the OP.

I'm not saying the OP is wrong, nor saying the observations are accurate. I really really really really cannot stick tea, yet everyone in my family lives off it.. am I wrong? or are they wrong?

ED is a superb framework, a work in progress. We will see first person action, walk around stations, walk on planets, see animals, you can go stealing other people ships, hide in cargo containers, invite your friends to your anaconda and go explore the galaxy together.. Eventually you'll be able to do almost anything and everything, with and without your friends.. perhaps falling short of cyber babies.. but I wouldn't want to put that idea in anyones heads!! :p

Just one question to Derthek: So what is it you're trying to do and getting frustrated with? Is it something specific? or just you're not finding anything enjoyable? My guess is, you're either repping up, and getting immensely bored of grinding the same old (hey I can relate to that, but do it and ENJOY it whilst you still can.. you have a small window left), or you're getting frustrated with credit accumulation?

/Vx
 

DNA-Decay

DNA-Decay
Ziggy Stardust said:
I didn't vote for you, so how did you come to
Click to expand...

You don't vote for Kings!

Actually can a mod please turn this thread into a poll as to who should be the voice of the community?

Is it:
OP?
Marra?
Ziggy?
Corrigendum?
Me?
Majinvash?
Fang?
Fergal?
Jane?
Kermit?
Apos?
Silk?
Nix?
Walt?
You?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TiberiusKirk

Banned
T
There's a lot of value in Elite. But it is boring - damned boring. I suspect it is only my mild autism spectrum disorder that keeps me playing.

BTW, everyone who uses the salutation 'Sir' on these boards is over 50, likely to be an 'explorer', and a hopeless fanboy who will hear no criticism.

Well, I'm over 50, but the game is boring.

Regards Sirs. xx
 
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Zeta Legion

Z
COOPER TTE said:
When did we make it so when a post is made from thought and belief, we have to draw battle-lines first and then (maybe) later get onto discussing the topic?

@Derthek - to me you really are decent, affable player and amazing contributor (forum and game) and I can see and feel where this has come from.

I can't really agree though, and wonder if the post is a bit of an over-reaction. The game is what it is (pretty much what is has always been in it's most basic form) and we've all got tons of pleasure out of it. I'm sure much more to come too.

But falling into the trap of "it should have this, it needs that or it will die" etc out of frustration of the current game state and your own place at the time isn't the way to go, if you were to ask me. Nor is advising the Dev team in this way. Contribute and recommend, as you have many times, please - but it's easy for each of us to think *we* have the grasp of what the playerbase needs and when it's really just how ourselves feel at a given moment.

The game IS beautiful. It isn't dull, although it can certainly generate dull moments! But then, it can suddenly surprise with a sequence you havent encountered before, or a new addition, or a clue to something....

You can still have hope. Right now you're a bit down, but you'll be back up again. (Note to all; 'Burnout' is actually a thing, not just a buzzword you see on the forums. If you feel a bit jaded, take a break for a short while - there are MILLIONS of other games out there, and there's RL too!)

I think it's really unfair to say that FD are just remaking '84 and not injecting creative and expressive improvements. I think that's exactly what it is doing, and was always mean to do. PG is a bonus that fleshes things out even further, but not the problem if you ask me.

And lastly: I really love FTL - discovered it early on and played to death. But really, THAT is a modernised text adventure. THIS is really not :)
Click to expand...

Criticizing a game for overly relying on samey repetitive content is not unfair criticism regardless of any 10-year plans or future improvements. Destiny used the 10-year-plan as a shield and succeeded in stringing people along to the point where they had spent $200 on an eminently mediocre game that was worth maybe $50 as an aggregate. Blizzard managed to con people into buying the same bad game TWICE by promising to fix blatant, glaring issues without really fixing the core maladies afflicting it.

It is perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of Elite's monetary value, ESPECIALLY as a long-term project. Telling people to eff off and come back in 10 years is incredibly short-sighted, because without attracting new customers to fuel development costs the game may not even make it that far. Hell those people may not even be ALIVE by then!


On a more positive note, I think people get passionate about improvements to Elite because they WANT it to succeed, and there aren't really that many space sims or space shooters out there at the moment. It's a newly re-emerging genre and Elite being one of the first to the plate is going to shoulder much of the burden for fulfilling people's wants. Because the game is at 'release state' (despite basically being an extended paid beta) people are more openly critical when it doesn't meet their demands. By comparison Star Citizen is basically a concept with some wonky tech-demos, but because it isn't at version 1.0+ Chris Roberts can wax lyrical about all the amazing features that will be in the game while strategically avoiding stating WHEN such features will be in the game and people automatically assume it'll all be there at release; a strategy he has parlayed into an absurd amount of money.
 

TiberiusKirk

Banned
T
>>Hell those people may not even be ALIVE by then!

Heh, that's put a downer on it :)

They really need to fix the damned missions and make them interesting. I know they say they're working on it, but they've said this before. Too much obsession with the look of the game / astrophysics. If I wanted to do astrophysics I wouldn't play a game about it 'for fun', I'd take a degree in it. Oops, already did.
 
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insanephoton

insanephoton
DNA-Decay said:
You don't vote for Kings!

Actually can a mod please turn this thread into a poll as to who should be the voice of the community?

Is it:
OP?
Marra?
Ziggy?
Corrigendum?
Me?
Majinvash?
Fang?
Fergal?
Jane?
Kermit?
Apos?
Silk?
Nix?
Walt?
You?
Click to expand...

No, it's Henry the janitor
 

COOPER TTE

COOPER TTE
Zeta Legion said:
Criticizing a game for overly relying on samey repetitive content is not unfair criticism regardless of any 10-year plans or future improvements. Destiny used the 10-year-plan as a shield and succeeded in stringing people along to the point where they had spent $200 on an eminently mediocre game that was worth maybe $50 as an aggregate. Blizzard managed to con people into buying the same bad game TWICE by promising to fix blatant, glaring issues without really fixing the core maladies afflicting it.

It is perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of Elite's monetary value, ESPECIALLY as a long-term project. Telling people to eff off and come back in 10 years is incredibly short-sighted, because without attracting new customers to fuel development costs the game may not even make it that far. Hell those people may not even be ALIVE by then!


On a more positive note, I think people get passionate about improvements to Elite because they WANT it to succeed, and there aren't really that many space sims or space shooters out there at the moment. It's a newly re-emerging genre and Elite being one of the first to the plate is going to shoulder much of the burden for fulfilling people's wants. Because the game is at 'release state' (despite basically being an extended paid beta) people are more openly critical when it doesn't meet their demands. By comparison Star Citizen is basically a concept with some wonky tech-demos, but because it isn't at version 1.0+ Chris Roberts can wax lyrical about all the amazing features that will be in the game while strategically avoiding stating WHEN such features will be in the game and people automatically assume it'll all be there at release; a strategy he has parlayed into an absurd amount of money.
Click to expand...

Yes to most of that: I don't think criticism is unfair (there's plenty on this angle around!) and we are after all contributors to FDs thoughts. I didn't mention the 10-year-plan and I certainly don't buy it. The game will run for as many years as it is worth it, be it 3 or 20, depending on financial viability of the game and the company, and the potential of a sequel replacement ( you heard it here first - discuss! lol)

Right now, I occasionally get bummed or frustrated but also often have moments of focused engagement, or nice surprises too. As someone else said, the framework is beautiful and the concept is one I can more often than not lock myself into and be satisfied.

I also wanted to give Derthek a bit of a gee-up. He's a great read, selfless comrade and good with a mop too
 

Zeta Legion

Z
COOPER TTE said:
Yes to most of that: I don't think criticism is unfair (there's plenty on this angle around!) and we are after all contributors to FDs thoughts. I didn't mention the 10-year-plan and I certainly don't buy it. The game will run for as many years as it is worth it, be it 3 or 20, depending on financial viability of the game and the company, and the potential of a sequel replacement ( you heard it here first - discuss! lol)

Right now, I occasionally get bummed or frustrated but also often have moments of focused engagement, or nice surprises too. As someone else said, the framework is beautiful and the concept is one I can more often than not lock myself into and be satisfied.

I also wanted to give Derthek a bit of a gee-up. He's a great read, selfless comrade and good with a mop too
Click to expand...

FD did build a great framework with the exception of relying on P2P connections. That's a bit of a misstep for an MMO in my opinion. The most important thing they got right was the flight model.

And I'd love to see a sequel sometime in the future.
 
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