torps interupted frameshift charge up, the mines forced the fsd into what looked like a longer boot up sequence and im sure someone said missiles can get a mod that can shut down drives for upto 10 seconds
Pirates have a lot of new tools - are there going to be harsher consequences?
- Thread starter Kicks
- Start date
The absolute squeakiest wheel has gotten the grease.
What was shown was mods for:
Mines:
- anti engines, causing a malfunction, leaving you adrift
- anti fsd, causing a malfunction leaving you adrift
Torps:
- fsd inhibition, acting like a big ship masslocks you (no cancellation)
That is a big difference.
If mines have their own special and those are not transferrable to
other ordnance, missiles will not have these abilities.
I doubt that however, as it seems that several modifications per
weapon group (energy/projectile/ordnance/special) seem the way they go.
They showed:
Energy:
- hp "healing beam"
- hp "healing over time" (shield regen)
- shield bypassing
- heating laser
Projectile:
- forceshells
- heated rounds (part thermal dmg for better shield dmg)
etc.
So i think 4 mods per group/category is the way they will go.
https://youtu.be/LSkIeYUZ8zk the only thing they showed mines doing was shutting down the fsd forcing it to reboot, had no effect on the drives whatsoever. as for the torps, interupted/slowed down, same thing really and when i said missiles might get a mod that will shut down drives what i really meant was thrusters lol sorry for not being more clear.
i think those mods will be unique to those weapons otherwise mines will become useless as everyone would just put the fsd shutdown effect on something that could track over many kms as opposed to having to get right on top of the target
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...and i would bet a lot of non posting players are in the very same category rather than the few on here that are at a semi pro level. If they keep aiming the game to bring more and more NPC power and ability to a PVP level or close, watch the hatch break free on most of the average ability level players. Nasty NPC ability may well bring a nasty player log in response.
FD you are hereby warned
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Randomly murdering players or non-wanted ships within controlled space (e.g. Federation space) should incur penalties to such an extent that the offender will be incapable of operating safely within those systems.
Murder would deny access to all stations affiliated with the faction controlling the space, e.g. all landing permits are denied for all stations belonging to Federation or Federation affiliated sub-factions.
Murder would increase the rate of interdictions in supercruise as well as more aggressive scanning.
In short, anyone committing murder of ships that are not wanted within the controlled space should suffer enough consequences that they are inevitably pushed out of the controlled space and forced to set up their base of operations in either Anarchy systems, independent systems or the systems of opposing factions.
The current system in ED is far too lenient on murders and gives the "random psycho" so-called roleplay far too great freedom to operate anywhere. MASSIVE penalties for murder needs to be put in place. Psycho's should not operate within the boundaries of an established faction, at least not without SEVERE risk of being destroyed themselves.
Furthermore certain gameplay elements that encourage this behaviour needs to be altered. E.g. the Combat Rating should NOT increase when murdering poorly armed trading ships within controlled systems.
All the psycho roleplayers argue that it's called Elite DANGEROUS so it should be a dangerous world out there. Well, that door swings BOTH ways, so it should be at minimum equally risky, if not MORE RISKY for so-called psycho roleplayers to operate within controlled space than anyone else across the game.
Being a psycho murderer in the game should force you into the MOST risky playstyle in the game, where you are unable to land anywhere across half the galaxy, hunted everytime you enter controlled systems where you have committed murders and other consequences that impact your gameplay. And if you argue that "oh but that makes it too hard to roleplay the way I like, or it makes it almost impossible to play the game the way I prefer" ... then I hate to break it to you but the game is called:
Elite DANGEROUS!
Murder would deny access to all stations affiliated with the faction controlling the space, e.g. all landing permits are denied for all stations belonging to Federation or Federation affiliated sub-factions.
Murder would increase the rate of interdictions in supercruise as well as more aggressive scanning.
In short, anyone committing murder of ships that are not wanted within the controlled space should suffer enough consequences that they are inevitably pushed out of the controlled space and forced to set up their base of operations in either Anarchy systems, independent systems or the systems of opposing factions.
The current system in ED is far too lenient on murders and gives the "random psycho" so-called roleplay far too great freedom to operate anywhere. MASSIVE penalties for murder needs to be put in place. Psycho's should not operate within the boundaries of an established faction, at least not without SEVERE risk of being destroyed themselves.
Furthermore certain gameplay elements that encourage this behaviour needs to be altered. E.g. the Combat Rating should NOT increase when murdering poorly armed trading ships within controlled systems.
All the psycho roleplayers argue that it's called Elite DANGEROUS so it should be a dangerous world out there. Well, that door swings BOTH ways, so it should be at minimum equally risky, if not MORE RISKY for so-called psycho roleplayers to operate within controlled space than anyone else across the game.
Being a psycho murderer in the game should force you into the MOST risky playstyle in the game, where you are unable to land anywhere across half the galaxy, hunted everytime you enter controlled systems where you have committed murders and other consequences that impact your gameplay. And if you argue that "oh but that makes it too hard to roleplay the way I like, or it makes it almost impossible to play the game the way I prefer" ... then I hate to break it to you but the game is called:
Elite DANGEROUS!
Ship destruction is as easy as buying a Sidewinder. Also not seeing any way of the system telling the difference between pirates and jerks.
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Absolutely. So long as player killing is a consequence free activity no amount of tweaking will make either playing in Open or cooperating with Pirate gameplay any more popular.
Pirate gameplay suffers significantly because murder is currently consequence free.
If I am in a Hauler, or T-6, or any trading ship for that matter and I run into a player who interdicts me... knowing that 9 out of 10 are (pretending) to roleplay psychos and will destroy my ship regardless if I give them cargo or not then I simply self-destruct the ship and deny them both the kill and the cargo. There is no reason for me to risk giving them cargo (and thus encourage the murder style gameplay by giving them profits) and there is no reason for me to let them kill me (and thus encourage the murder style gameplay by giving them rank increase in the Combat Rating).
End result is that 'legit' pirates will be constantly regarded as psycho's, and every player will then act accordingly by never giving cargo and always trying to run or just self destruct the ship.
This was extremely evident when I was watching a streamer who tried to reverse-pirate by interdicting random players and then she tried giving them 1T of Gold. All of them would run, or try to defend themselves by attacking. One even got so flustered when trying to attack her (the reverse pirate) that he ended up colliding with her and destroyed his own ship.
Piracy has less consequences simply because pirates don't murder their victims. There is no benefit in that as the cargo is then lost and the whole interdiction becomes pointless. True pirates simply want to pacify their victim and get them to drop cargo either through threats or by physical attacks to kill their drives, FSD or simply pop the cargo hatch.
However, the piracy gameplay is never going to be more than an NPC activity unless they significantly increase the consequences for the MURDERS to such a huge extent that murder rarely happens anymore outside of anarchy and independent systems.
Yea. Like you say it all cuts both ways. I'm simply not interested in playing in Open, not because of piracy but because in the absence of any consequences you have to assume any other player is likely to be a jerk and act accordingly.
Even if you introduce drastic penalties for killing an Unwanted player people will find ways to Jerk the mechanic like Jerks already do with station security.
Even if you introduce drastic penalties for killing an Unwanted player people will find ways to Jerk the mechanic like Jerks already do with station security.
Not saying that crime and punishment system doesn't need revamping, but I seem to do just fine in Open even with these "jerks."
I posted this in another thread, but I will repost here as it has relevance to this as well.
I tried to do player piracy for a short while.
-------------------------------------------------
Experience while pirating...
I open voice coms... does not get received.
I talk in local chat... gets ignored
The victim, as it were, while ignoring both voice coms and local chat, is boosting away from me while getting his FSD charged up.
-------------------------------------------------
Then I tried to do trading in a small ship to get interdicted by other players to see how the experience would pan out by comparison.
-------------------------------------------------
Experience while being pirated...
Player interdicts me, and I await him hailing me.
No voice coms are opened.
No local chat is seen.
The pirate, as it were, while not bothering to establish any form of communication, is deploying weapons and firing at me immediately.
-------------------------------------------------
Conclusion
A majority of players are not interested in being pirates, they just want to kill other players (and often go after easy targets, e.g. smaller ships).
The mentality of the community because of this is that it becomes an established fact that being interdicted = someone wants to destroy your ship. What happens then is that the expectation is that anyone who interdicts you wants to kill you and are not interested in your cargo.
When this has become an established fact then there is no reason for traders or other non-pirate players to remain in Open Play, even if they want the extra thrill of a pirate showing up to steal their cargo. Because there are no pirates who want your cargo, only fragwhores who wants to kill you.
The only way to encourage traders and others who enjoy a gameplay where the are thieves and scoundrels that steal your cargo is to change the established mentality that interdiction = someone wants you dead.
Personally I would love to do trading in Open Play if there was a chance that someone might pirate me. But I am not going to do Open Play when there is ZERO risk of someone trying to pirate me but 100% risk that someone who interdicts me wants my ship destroyed. Even the "it has more risk therefore more thrill" argument falls short in the current state of the game (Open Play).
We need a shift in mentality.
Only way to achieve this is to implement consequences that are so extreme for the random murder gameplay that anyone who pursues that path will be forced to conduct their gameplay primarily in the anarchy systems and to a limited degree in the independent systems.
I tried to do player piracy for a short while.
-------------------------------------------------
Experience while pirating...
I open voice coms... does not get received.
I talk in local chat... gets ignored
The victim, as it were, while ignoring both voice coms and local chat, is boosting away from me while getting his FSD charged up.
-------------------------------------------------
Then I tried to do trading in a small ship to get interdicted by other players to see how the experience would pan out by comparison.
-------------------------------------------------
Experience while being pirated...
Player interdicts me, and I await him hailing me.
No voice coms are opened.
No local chat is seen.
The pirate, as it were, while not bothering to establish any form of communication, is deploying weapons and firing at me immediately.
-------------------------------------------------
Conclusion
A majority of players are not interested in being pirates, they just want to kill other players (and often go after easy targets, e.g. smaller ships).
The mentality of the community because of this is that it becomes an established fact that being interdicted = someone wants to destroy your ship. What happens then is that the expectation is that anyone who interdicts you wants to kill you and are not interested in your cargo.
When this has become an established fact then there is no reason for traders or other non-pirate players to remain in Open Play, even if they want the extra thrill of a pirate showing up to steal their cargo. Because there are no pirates who want your cargo, only fragwhores who wants to kill you.
The only way to encourage traders and others who enjoy a gameplay where the are thieves and scoundrels that steal your cargo is to change the established mentality that interdiction = someone wants you dead.
Personally I would love to do trading in Open Play if there was a chance that someone might pirate me. But I am not going to do Open Play when there is ZERO risk of someone trying to pirate me but 100% risk that someone who interdicts me wants my ship destroyed. Even the "it has more risk therefore more thrill" argument falls short in the current state of the game (Open Play).
We need a shift in mentality.
Only way to achieve this is to implement consequences that are so extreme for the random murder gameplay that anyone who pursues that path will be forced to conduct their gameplay primarily in the anarchy systems and to a limited degree in the independent systems.
Well, there's the "wing trade" when the big ship goes selling the booty collected... But ya, would be nice if there was a better system for loot-share.
Great live-stream!
I'll preface with this post with the fact that player-piracy absolutely should exist in open-play.
The live-stream hints a lot of goodies that pirates can use to disable their prey.
My question is, are the penalties for piracy going to be increased because of this? As it stands the update appears to worsen the experience for those who are pirated (e.g. the traders). Open play is open play.
Should some thought be given, perhaps not to countermeasures, but to the penalty of piracy?
All round, very good update!
I love the new tools, although I am not a pirate.
But they can be used for other purposes too.
I agree that it would be cool if crime had a longer lasting and more impressive effect.
Especially murder should be a permanent stain on a CMDRS record if committed in the jurisdiction of the major factions (anarchy systems are of course free for all).
Some ideas:
- It would be great if we could always see if another player had committed player murders and how many. This would help us to judge what type of player we deal with.
- FD could make use of the territory of powers too:
If a CMDR commits (a to be determined number of) multiple murders in let's say the territory of Mahon he then might become wanted in the entire territory of Mahon and not just in the system he committed the crime in.
If he commits even more murders in Mahon/Alliance territory he might become wanted in the entire Alliance territory.
I think this would be a nice escalation of the wanted status and I like the idea that it uses the PowerPlay territories to achieve this.
- Also the wanted status for murder should stick much longer and it should not simply be removed when a player gets killed (as this could be abused). It should stick for a period of at least 3 months or so. And even if the murderer has payed for his crimes the number of murders should still be visible for other players.
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...and i would bet a lot of non posting players are in the very same category rather than the few on here that are at a semi pro level. If they keep aiming the game to bring more and more NPC power and ability to a PVP level or close, watch the hatch break free on most of the average ability level players. Nasty NPC ability may well bring a nasty player log in response.
FD you are hereby warned
It never once occurred to you that this opinion may well be the minority voice? Such a pity.
FWIW, everyone is getting new toys, or were people so invested in knee jerk reactions that they did not listen to what was said. Most modules will have engineer effects, that includes items such as scb's, shields, engines, scanners, et al.
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It will be interesting to see if the piracy weapons actually balance the experience somewhat, i.e. if you shut down someone's drive for 10 seconds, is it balanced by offering significantly reduced damage?
It could make loadout choices a proper compromise - if you want to pirate, you'll take a noticeable hit in DPS, for example.
Deleted member 110222
D
Ah ok i see now
Keep in mind though, as far as we know the FSD disruption is on mines.
If that special will be available on missiles too we do not know yet.
Point Defense is gonna become useful now, as even NPCs may apply these
modules, however, the AI is to be checked if they apply tactics making effective
use of those mods.
Oh really? Interesting.
In any case, I do think all the special effects are putting me out of any hope of the PvP game. Understand, I don't hate it. I actually enjoy CQC, even if I'm terrible.
CQC is but a gimmick... a number of people ignore it...
I'm not privy to any pvp group, nor want to be, but as it goes, either pvp events are pre-mediated or gank fest wannabes. Except for an occasional real pirate, anything what flies there will want you dead.
Deleted member 110222
D
I know people ignore it. But I like it.
Doesn't one of the Engineers require CQC rank? I imagine that'll boost CQC. Whether that's a good thing...
I arm up, but at least, pre horizon (since i've been exploring since horizon and just came back) other traders hardly ever armed up.