Katkon; I completely agree with this. It is my preferred way of play; but it seems to necessitate a PVP opt in button on the 'all group' UI. Some thing I don't mind, but PVP players hate.
I'm concerned – the direction of the game.
- Thread starter Cosmos
- Start date
Katkon; I completely agree with this. It is my preferred way of play; but it seems to necessitate a PVP opt in button on the 'all group' UI. Some thing I don't mind, but PVP players hate.
You have to look to the motivations of someone who wants to have non-consensual PvP.
Piracy ...
(Griefing, which you're alluding to, would mean "murder" which goes against the spirit of piracy and halts progress towards Elite status)
You have to look to the motivations of someone who wants to have non-consensual PvP.
Everyone will play the game they want to, or at least try. As long as we can keep the majority happy we will be on to a good thing. I hope that is achievable.
Its not just about PvP. As I mentioned previously if I see a player being attacked I might come to their aid and a new friendship is formed. If all I see is NPCs I'm not going to be motivated to do any of that. Its not like I can form a friendship with the AI.
No, but you can gain contacts and get nice reward. That's what FD intends to provide.
For my part, the question here is not about PvP vs. PvE.
I'm not much into PvP but i'd never vote for a "PvP-Switch" in this game.
There are already all the tools which i would need to avoid it to a big extent if i'd want to.
There are just two different voices in my head.
- The roleplay and immersion freak shouting: No difference in PC and NPC!
- The one that wants every bit of information to base decisions upon: But i need to know!
I could live with both versions i think...
I'm not much into PvP but i'd never vote for a "PvP-Switch" in this game.
There are already all the tools which i would need to avoid it to a big extent if i'd want to.
There are just two different voices in my head.
- The roleplay and immersion freak shouting: No difference in PC and NPC!
- The one that wants every bit of information to base decisions upon: But i need to know!
I could live with both versions i think...
<nods>
Thanks!
I am glad someone noted what I said rather than giving MORE glory to the glorious Kow. Pffff....
Oh and agree with what you said and with Liqua too and all the others that agree.
In an MMO you typically have Non aggressive NPC's (in town - or missions) and Monsters and Players. These are often static, set positions or areas.
It turns into PvE or PvP, as you either fight against Monsters or other Players.
But this is not that kind of game, it is supposed to be an evolving galaxy, if YOU don't do anything, stuff still happens and it moves on. it is fundamentally different and as a result I really think the concept of all being a masked signature makes the game richer and much less prescribed.
I am a pilot in the Milky way and so is everyone else.
I am not sure why that still wouldn't happen...
The difference here is you see a battle... now, depending on your current ship and mission, etc you might decide to swiftly move on (knowing you daren't risk your cargo) or you investigate, wanting to possibly help out or claim the spoils.
You scan the ships, 1 is a Human pilot, they are having a rough time of it and so you decide to intervene and help out.
You now either have a new acquaintance maybe even a friend later down the line, or you are given a barrage of "you noob, stole my kill" abuse and are attacked, rammed, ignored (wahey for gamers, seriously, seen that, been there).
Either way your decision was based upon your intrigue as to what could be going on and a sense of wanting to help out or see if there is another human about.
Yes it isn't instantaneous, but its reactive, spontaneous and not based upon an immediate other player magnet. You still get to do what you want, you might have to work a little more for it, but you can still engage.
What we can't do if all identified as a hollow triangle is meld into the void as just another ship, we become player magnets, which can be good if its Cosmos popping over to say hi, or Bad if its well... one of those other types.
Sorry about not having read through the entire thread yet, but I think I've gift the gist of it.
As I understand things, FD is thinking if making it so you can't tell the difference between players and NPCs, unless the player chooses to do so.
I really like that idea.
A major part of griefing behavior is the knowledge that they are ruining another player's game. Not being able to identify players to target specifically should reduce the "reward" they feel because it means they'll be targeting NPCs more often then players.
What makes PvP fun is not taking things personally, and not having the other player make it personal. This could help keep things from becoming personal for both players involved.
It also means that players who fall between the PvP and PvE extremes, like me, will have a bit of herd immunity, since if I'm making a cargo run in a dangerous system, I'll be one of several several choices for a PC pirate to choose from, giving me that sense of danger from knowing that pirate is out there, but without the guarantee that I'll be attacked by her.
It also increases the viability of the "disguised merchant vessel" strategy that bounty hunters could employ. Personally, I would consider it a red flag to see a PC flagged as such if I went the piracy route. Removing it would certainly increase the "surprise!" factor.
If this was implemented, I'd be much more inclined to stay in the ALL group, since I'd know that if I was attacked by a PC, it was nothing personal, but all part of the game.
As I understand things, FD is thinking if making it so you can't tell the difference between players and NPCs, unless the player chooses to do so.
I really like that idea.
A major part of griefing behavior is the knowledge that they are ruining another player's game. Not being able to identify players to target specifically should reduce the "reward" they feel because it means they'll be targeting NPCs more often then players.
What makes PvP fun is not taking things personally, and not having the other player make it personal. This could help keep things from becoming personal for both players involved.
It also means that players who fall between the PvP and PvE extremes, like me, will have a bit of herd immunity, since if I'm making a cargo run in a dangerous system, I'll be one of several several choices for a PC pirate to choose from, giving me that sense of danger from knowing that pirate is out there, but without the guarantee that I'll be attacked by her.
It also increases the viability of the "disguised merchant vessel" strategy that bounty hunters could employ. Personally, I would consider it a red flag to see a PC flagged as such if I went the piracy route. Removing it would certainly increase the "surprise!" factor.
If this was implemented, I'd be much more inclined to stay in the ALL group, since I'd know that if I was attacked by a PC, it was nothing personal, but all part of the game.
Its going to become a huge chore to have to endlessly be scanning every single ship I come across in the hope one might be a human player when the galaxy is going to be sparse enough as it is.. I can understand the argument for not knowing instantly at long range who were the NPCs or humans but it would be useful and important to know as I got in a reasonable distance to them.
I look at many of the comments here and I am genuinely baffled by the response when we are talking about a game that is supposed to be a mutli-player game.
My personal answer would be: The game i'd like to play
Sure, it would almost be like single player offline. But a purely AI driven universe would not be the same. Players affecting it make it more unpredictable...and "alive".
There's single player online for that... Which has the dynamic player affected universe whilst having the lack of players who can break your immersion.
Its going to become a huge chore to have to endlessly be scanning every single ship I come across in the hope one might be a human player when the galaxy is going to be sparse enough as it is.. I can understand the argument for not knowing instantly at long range who were the NPCs or humans but it would be useful and important to know as I got in a reasonable distance to them.
I look at many of the comments here and I am genuinely baffled by the response when we are talking about a game that is supposed to be a mutli-player game.
Maybe there's a compromise.
If you fly close enough for long enough (whatever that might be), then the target turns hollow if it is a Human player. Or once you have purchased them a long range scanner can do the job.
Promotes sticking your neck out a little, but removes the constant clicking to see who is who?!
I guess though I see this game as galaxy with people in it who I may or may not meet, all doing their thing, than an arena style Multiplayer experience. The blending in for me is part of the charm as like I said, it changes behaviours in an interesting and potentially more genuine manner.
That said, if it was kept as is in current Alpha I would NOT move out of the ALL group.
I think it's ok as it is in the current alpha. You have to, at least, look at your radar to know, after all...
When somebody hails me (and I think they are human) I want the option to respond in a way that makes it clear I'm a human, or to use a canned response that leaves them wondering.
A simpler solution would be to have the player scan cover all targets in range with one click, while revealing yourself as a player (and the scanner) to all targets.
From there, players can respond accordingly.
With all due respect Cosmos I believe you need to rethink that position.
You have professed a desire to be a bounty hunter and part of your ritual will be to scan pilots anyway to see if they have a bounty on them or not ... You can't openly attack people without confirming first their status.
Part of the compromise could be to include the PC/NPC status in said scan.
(emphasis mine)