Option for CMDRs complaining about OP AI
- Thread starter Chongo
- Start date
Ultimately the AI being too hard, too easy or just right will be a matter of majority opinion. Personally I'm hoping to be able to hire NPC wingmen eventually to help crack the nuts I can't manage on my own at the moment.
Why can't I crack them? Because I'm 45 years old, married with two kids and barely enough time to boot the blooming game up let alone hone my L33t skillz but, and here's the important bit, I still want to fight.
However...
I have zero problems with some AI and ships being beyond me, really not a problem. I, in part, picked my ship for its running away ability. If the people complaining the AI is OP coz they can't take down a conda in their viper then that's one thing (that I don't care about). If however, it's people in combat FDL's being consistently beaten by Cobras then that could be a problem. It'll be interesting to see.
Why can't I crack them? Because I'm 45 years old, married with two kids and barely enough time to boot the blooming game up let alone hone my L33t skillz but, and here's the important bit, I still want to fight.
However...
I have zero problems with some AI and ships being beyond me, really not a problem. I, in part, picked my ship for its running away ability. If the people complaining the AI is OP coz they can't take down a conda in their viper then that's one thing (that I don't care about). If however, it's people in combat FDL's being consistently beaten by Cobras then that could be a problem. It'll be interesting to see.
Why did anyone even think that making the AI difficulty level depend on your own rank would be a good idea? It's a complete departure from realism. Harmless and Elite pilots should be encountering the same kinds of NPCs if they're in the same place and at the same time (well, perhaps have some rookie NPCs be scared off if they figure out they're picking on an elite). To make it survivable for starters, don't put elite NPCs in the starter systems.
As promised (almost) here's a vid of Beta 2.1. It's pretty short and contains lots of mistakes by me but the mitigating circumstances are that it was late and I'd been drinking... a lot. Remember kids don't drink and fly unless you like the rebuy screen 
I'm flying an Asp X with Level 5 engineering mods on everything. Only running pulses but they all have their special upgrades. My trigger didn't function on the first pass for some reason. What the vid shows is how, if you get it wrong, you're going to die in double quick time.
Enjoy!
I'm flying an Asp X with Level 5 engineering mods on everything. Only running pulses but they all have their special upgrades. My trigger didn't function on the first pass for some reason. What the vid shows is how, if you get it wrong, you're going to die in double quick time.
Enjoy!
[video=youtube;qCARt-B7HMs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCARt-B7HMs[/video]
is it harder than players? If not then it's not too hard. If it is, well then all those reasons for people not playing in Open just went away!
NPCs needed to be tougher... Do we all agree there?
Thought the tongue in cheek was apparent. I've barely touched AI in months because of how dull the gameplay is. Only challenge in game right now is other willing CMDRs, and while that will stay the same in 2.1, the AI difficulty increase at least spices up the other options. I'm serious though - all these 'but I'm a good pilot' folks that are complaining, I'm betting they've got high combat ranks from farming res's in solo/mobius. Maybe it's time to check the ego and realize the combat rank that's appropriate. I'm serious, it could improve your gameplay experience.
The level of doom and gloom being fired at AI is ridiculous. Mayhem is still addressing weapon balance. AI loadouts will consequently change with these nerfs to weapons that are out of sync with the power curve.
Yeah, I mean why not? Also, while trading, if it's taken you too long to find a decent route, it allows you to purchase commodities 50% cheaper.
And, why not add fast travel for those explorers who just don't have the necessary patience?
Sarcasm off/
Or alternatively, don't bite off more than you can chew. Not everything needs to be defeated, running - surviving, are all valid options. This is what traders do when they encounter any enemy they can't defeat - which is most enemies.
After all, everyone should be included. My 4 month old is capable of gripping the joystick, could we lower the difficulty though, she has trouble managing the tougher enemies.
Last edited:
tldr; commanders who are older and the ones that suffer from disabilities and other issues can not handle this ueber a.i.!
it really is quite an elegant system...Elite w/o Elite skills=world of pain
Last edited:
Um, I'm arguing difficulty, not time constraints. Practically anyone can explore provided they can press a single key at a time, the base activity it isn't skill based although you can increase earnings with skill.
Throttle 0 -> Enter system.
Up arrow to avoid star.
Throttle 100% -> scoop.
Discovery scanner.
Arrow keys to point to next system
Hyperspace key.
Is that sarcastic enough (yet true)?
Trading also can be done with anyone that has enough time, it's not skill or reaction based except for the bits where you get interdicted which arguably flows into combat. Anyone can trade, again skill does increase profits but you can have next to 0 skill and still make profit. In combat without a reasonable degree of skill you cannot. With 2.1 the minimum required skill is increasing. We are discussing two very very different things here and you seem to be confused..
I agree with the last bit but as the linked vid from post #24 on this thread shows sometimes it's a little unavoidable and feels a bit like Dark Souls where the game just decides that it's had enough and you will die now. Except in Elite death can mean significant loss of assets which can only be gained through spending time in the game.
Wait, did you put sarcasm back on without saying? You sneaky sneaky person!
Yes you took my argument to ad infinitum, slow clap!! All I was pointing out is that without difficulty settings or levelled areas like traditional MMO games (or even games in general) it's a good way to get players to turn around and say "screw this" when they get wasted by the AI in seconds for the 5th time that day and have no options for reducing said difficulty.
Edit - Lots of games cater for the lowest common denominator, Call of Duty games still start by saying use wsad to move. I'm not suggesting that for a second but I wanted to raise awareness amongst the "experienced" players that not everyone can "git good" and if we raise the bar too high they will simply move on or sit here on the forums complaining.
To clarify, I'm not saying they can't, I don't have data to prove that and as I mentioned I'm sure most are vastly capable at adapting. I'm just hypothesising that if me with my relatively high experience and good reactions/micromanagement (I play too many games) is finding it a touch troublesome others with less experience and reactions may find impossible.
Also I'm not saying the AI is uber, I've posted again above here where I re-evaluated somewhat. My initial post was from flying small ships like Eagles & cobra's whereas I had a different experience in an FDL.
Last edited:
Wow that don't seem right or fun!As promised (almost) here's a vid of Beta 2.1. It's pretty short and contains lots of mistakes by me but the mitigating circumstances are that it was late and I'd been drinking... a lot. Remember kids don't drink and fly unless you like the rebuy screen
I'm flying an Asp X with Level 5 engineering mods on everything. Only running pulses but they all have their special upgrades. My trigger didn't function on the first pass for some reason. What the vid shows is how, if you get it wrong, you're going to die in double quick time.
Enjoy!
The one and only concern I have about it is that as has been pointed out, the npc difficulty is based on combat rank.
My combat rank is about 70% deadly but that doesn't mean that I'm always in a combat ship, or doing combat things. Most recently I've been spending most of my time exploring and flying a full combat rigged ship to do that is neither practical nor desirable; for a start I wouldn't choose to fly an Asp in combat at all and I wouldn't choose to go exploring in a ship with a small jump range due to being built for combat. That's without even getting into the fact that in a proper exploration build I don't have any room for things like HPRs or SCBs, even if I was minded to carry them.
So yeah. No idea what's going to happen when I jump back to the bubble but if it involves getting interdicted by some demented rail-spamming npc FDL or something I guess I can kiss my exploration data goodbye. Guess we'll just have to see how it goes.
My combat rank is about 70% deadly but that doesn't mean that I'm always in a combat ship, or doing combat things. Most recently I've been spending most of my time exploring and flying a full combat rigged ship to do that is neither practical nor desirable; for a start I wouldn't choose to fly an Asp in combat at all and I wouldn't choose to go exploring in a ship with a small jump range due to being built for combat. That's without even getting into the fact that in a proper exploration build I don't have any room for things like HPRs or SCBs, even if I was minded to carry them.
So yeah. No idea what's going to happen when I jump back to the bubble but if it involves getting interdicted by some demented rail-spamming npc FDL or something I guess I can kiss my exploration data goodbye. Guess we'll just have to see how it goes.
Last edited:
I think FD goes for that "be ready for anything - it's a deadly galaxy, out there" vibe they originally intended.
I guess some people are playing this game to seek approval of their indolence, well I certainly refuse to let ED become yet another one of those games.
If you hate the term, don't use it...
The forums would be far better off if that particular sentiment were expressed much less.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
And some people are playing the game to have fun...
I'm sure a balance can be found.
loving it. make it harder, WATSON we need you! AI in ED is still a child I think. edited due to it sounding OH so wrong ((
Last edited:
I think you are right that some people are playing this game to seek approval, but I think the amount of bragging, belittling, envy and "schadenfreude" points to an other group that seeks approval from this game (or the forum discussions about the "brutal beta AI").
I will refer you to all my previous comments on this thread where I state quite clearly how not everyone may be capable of "getting good".
If I was to resort to the silliness I've seen earlier on this thread lets make it so harmless sidewinders are as good as the top 1% of player pilots. Then everyone has to Git good as much as the top 1%. <- Yes I know it's silly but where do we draw the line. See comments earlier about lack of difficulty and levelled areas.
Edit: Also very much as above, people play for different reasons. Some of us play for fun not for challenge. Challenge can mean fun but see the video in post #24 and tell me where the fun and challenge in that rather inescapable scenario is.
Edit Edit: Don't discuss the AI buff, it's what they want and its goal is to make you post on the forums and draw attention to them
I couldn't resist, sorry, I'll get my coat.
Last edited:
I am going to comment here. I have played beta. I am north of fifty with arthritis in my hands, I am never going to have the ability to do FA off, I have to keep things very simple and limit hand movement because every movement of my hands is uncomfortable. I am also very time limited for this reason and real life. My impression is that you have to be selective in the fights you pick. I have not died yet and I fly a cobra. It is most definitely not as easy as it was. Personally I preferred it how it was, because I could really enjoy it at my (rather poor) level of combat skill, rather than just surviving which is what I do now. However I don't believe its impossible to play. The way its set now, I doubt I will ever get to combat Elite because as I climb further up the ranks the AI will scale with me. However, the AI previously was too easy and I think it needed to improve, so I wouldn't wish it to change.
The problem I see for people like myself is that I will eventually reach a point where my rank exceeds my skill level by so much that it becomes very unfun, so what I do think would be nice would be to have areas where less skilled pilots but high ranked pilots can find targets, albeit for limited credits.
The problem I see for people like myself is that I will eventually reach a point where my rank exceeds my skill level by so much that it becomes very unfun, so what I do think would be nice would be to have areas where less skilled pilots but high ranked pilots can find targets, albeit for limited credits.
Playing a game to have fun and playing a game to win are two different things, I've stated this elsewhere.
Playing a game to have fun means this fun derives not from winning, but mere engagement or struggle with the content.
Playing a game to win means to want to obtain a sense of omnipotence and control over the content, which is earned through honing one's skill and obtaining mastery over the subject.
Some people seem to be suffering the delusion of wanting to derive fun from "winning," but not wanting to put in the effort that will earn said "winning."
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
My original quote is to seek approval for indolence, which I will reiterate.
The AIs are dependent upon a player's rank and their own rank for measure of competency, those that want to take on every NPC should be prepared to exceed the skill range of the top-tier NPCs, not downgrading every NPC to mediocrity.
Last edited: