Oculus update attempts to stop Vive users

[Mark D]

I genuinely don't have a strong opinion on this. Wandered if you guys thought it was fair enough or negative?

http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/21/oculus-update-stops-unofficial-vive-access/

 

[M66]

Well...Oculus isn't making money on the hardware...so They're going to need to make it somewhere? Gamer's are going to use Steam....So Oculus is pretty much dead. Can't make money with hardware and can't make money from software....Piracy is going to kill Oculus.

Steam and HTC are making it on the software and the hardware.

Oculus would have been dead without Facebook's 2 billion.

 

[Derage]

That stuff backfiring on Oculus serves them right for trying to lock out gamers and hardware from exclusive deals, that's what you get for selling out to Facebook, that's what you get for trying to bring that pathetic console exclusiveness to PC gaming. Serves them right for trying to ruin the market.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Well...Oculus isn't making money on the hardware...so They're going to need to make it somewhere? Gamer's are going to use Steam....So Oculus is pretty much dead. Can't make money with hardware and can't make money from software....Piracy is going to kill Oculus.

Well - if they intended to make the money from software sales they'd better make sure oculus home supports each and every headset on the market out of the box, so people using other HMDs can buy their games at their store.

Not sure what their intentions are, but that piracy explanation is bare nonsense. What's that spokesperson even implying? Everyone using a non-Oculus HMD pirates their games?
All they're achieving is forcing non-oculus HMD users into piracy if they want to play one of those FB exclusives by blocking legal means of purchasing the software.

I'm sure they have their reasons, just not sure what they might be. It obviously isn't software sales (see above) and since they allegedly don't make profit from selling the hardware, that can't be the reason either. Spying on their customers? I certainly don't trust facebook one inch, but even to me that seems a little far fetched.

 

[VR Cmdr Paine]

This isn't about keeping Vive users OUT it's about keeping rift users IN for CV2 3 etc that is their main reason for using a walled garden store front high switching costs.
Its more Apple aping by Oculus, The NDA's the blue shirts the marketing style the "one more thing" xbox controller and especially the non acknowledgment of any competition.
Now with the DRM lock in/out the transformation to iRift is Complete...

 

[marwood82]

its 2 different business models at work.

oculus is attempting to be an all in one solution - hardware and content platform (ala apple)

the vive is effectively 2 systems. hardware(HTC) and software(Valve).

i think the point about oculus wanting to lock people in for cv2 probably has some truth.

to be honest right now, i can see an oculus rift 2, i'd be surprised if we saw a vive 2 given the rate at which HTC are currently hemorrhaging money.

valve on the other hand just want to sell as many games to as many people as possible, its not in their interests to care which headset its for.
it would be interesting to know if HTC get a cut of the vive games sold on steam? or if they are relying on headset sales alone to make money?

 

[HeavyGroovez]

It got cracked. Just like everything else does.

Business as usual.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Well, if that's the case they're disregarding their position. I bought an iphone 3 and a first-gen iPad myself despite regarding apple-users as mentally challenged hipsters since the eighties.

Back then there were no real alternatives, so I bit the bullet, jailbroke both and they worked fine until proper companies caught up.

You're most likely right in assuming Oculus are trying to ape Apple. Their problem is offering the inferior product at the same time.

 

[marwood82]

You're most likely right in assuming Oculus are trying to ape Apple. Their problem is offering the inferior product at the same time.

i guess by inferior you mean lack of hand controllers/room scale? (i'm not having a go, just clarifying)

thats true for now, the test comes when touch hits the market.

valve added full driver support for the razer hydra recently. it works very well, tracking's not bad, room scale works.
now vive users dont need this so theres only 1 group that that is targeted at. oculus users who want to play vive games.

if the same treatment is given to touch(which i believe steamvr is planned to support) and IF touch works well (2 big IFs but lets say they happen), then the idea of 'vive exclusives' go out of the window.

the whole thing would be turned on its head as it would then beg the question why would you buy a vive when with the rift you get room scale on all the vive games and also access to all the oculus exclusives?

as i said it will boil down to what the deal is between HTC and Valve. If HTC are loosing money on this, they may try and make valve lock up steamvr to attempt to make people buy vives. i cant see valve wanting to do that as they will be limiting their customer base.

i don't think we've seen the end of this by a long shot. it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

i guess by inferior you mean lack of hand controllers/room scale? (i'm not having a go, just clarifying)

thats true for now, the test comes when touch hits the market.

I hope touch controllers will mimic vive controllers closely enough to make it easy enough for developers to achieve cross-platform compatibility on open platforms.

valve added full driver support for the razer hydra recently. it works very well, tracking's not bad, room scale works.
now vive users dont need this so theres only 1 group that that is targeted at. oculus users who want to play vive games.

Yes - Steam do the smart thing and make the platform as open as possible as opposed to oculus who are actively trying to counteract that.

if the same treatment is given to touch(which i believe steamvr is planned to support) and IF touch works well (2 big IFs but lets say they happen), then the idea of 'vive exclusives' go out of the window.

There are no Vive exclusives - are you from reddit?

the whole thing would be turned on its head as it would then beg the question why would you buy a vive when with the rift you get room scale on all the vive games and also access to all the oculus exclusives?

Probably because anyone with a tad of common sense doesn't want facebook software installed on their computer.

as i said it will boil down to what the deal is between HTC and Valve. If HTC are loosing money on this, they may try and make valve lock up steamvr to attempt to make people buy vives. i cant see valve wanting to do that as they will be limiting their customer base.

i don't think we've seen the end of this by a long shot. it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Yes - Valve are an open platform - if HTC crashes they'll absorb the remnants or find another partner. It's why I use MS products - they might be poorly programmed, but didn't try to enslave me as much as Apple tried to (until win 10 at least).

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

A bit of gross generalisation, but it passes the 'sniff test' if you will:

VR is looking like big business to a lot of investors.
And Big Business is all about risk. When you're talking billion-dollar acquisitions (or two!) of upcoming VR companies with prototype hardware, risk is all about minimising the damage should your investment go off the rails.

These little issues are fine for investors, but on the inside, they'll want a return on their investments soon enough. Billions of dollars in the tech world can evaporate alarmingly quickly, so risk is correspondingly high. This means the business terms are tight - returns will need to be high (and met on definite, pre-determined dates and insurances can be crippling.

Making both platforms (and others) easily support each others software is adding additional risk; its something investors in one company cannot account for - the actions in another company (HTC/Valve). Locking down software for exclusive use 'compartmentalises' the risk, quantifying it based on the software sales projections (meaning hardware sales are more likely).

Remember in 1999, when we saw the first screenshots of Bungie's Halo on the PC, and wowed at the vehicles, detailed Dyson-esque landscapes? Then Microsoft bought Bungie, and used Halo as the 'killer app' to sell the X-Box. Halo on the PC evaporated overnight, X-Box sales were great (in part due to Halo and other titles). Software exclusivity to sell hardware. The hardware then leads to more software sales. Hardly anyone has a Playstation and an X-Box... its usually one or the the other.

VR HMD's are probably a similar parallel - most will have a Vive, or a Rift, but not both.

Remember the people handling the money are not called 'Palmer Luckey'. They're finance brokers who won't likely have any actual 'buy-in' to the hardawre, never tried VR and possibly never will.
But they will remember the X-Box success and try to replicate it if at all possible.

SO I think we'll see a similar story play out over the next 1-2 years. I think we can expect market segmentation of the HMD space, software-specific support (meaning it'll be more costly for developers to write multiple HMD rendering paths into their games). I will be (pleasantly surprised) if Valve stays as open as it has done so far.

Facebook (and Valve) are interested in VR not for the tech, not for the game's income even. They're big dollars but there's a bigger goal. They want to track your gaze, see what you look at (in-game) and derive marketing data from the VR masses in a way that ads, targeted web-browsing and cookies never could. The further they get into the mind of the consumer, the more effective their advertising will be. This isn't tin-foil hattery; marketing methods have changed radically over the past 10 years, and will continue to change.

They say 'the eyes are the window to the soul'... well, they're about to crack the neck... soon it'll be gaze tracking.

 

[Kyokushin]

Well... bye bye Ocularus.

I don't like Steam, but i don't like Facebook much more.

 

[jabokai]

Ha ha, some serious FUD going on here. Oculus works fine on Steam - so much for Oculus lock-in. Yes they're trying to develop their own store and lock it to the hardware (rather than the other way round that some of less informed above are suggesting) but the Rift itself works perfectly well with Steam, and with standalone products, like Elite Dangerous.

But don't let facts get in the way of your rants.

 

[Lupin]

Sadly seems Oculus does not understand, "If it can been written, it can also be unwritten/hacked". And the largest market is PC users who are VERY resourceful.
So this means Oculus NEED new approach to market, and this is it. Oh dear.
Spend more time writing content, not blocking content.


One of the reason I got Vive was support by Steam.

 

[jabokai]

One of the reason I got Vive was support by Steam.

Steam support Oculus too - this argument makes no sense, unless it's idealogical?

 

[natte hond]

Frontier has chosen for Steam and thus Vive right?
Does this mean Elite players cant use the Oculus in the future?
I'm one of those awaiting the cv1 and all this uncertainness make me want to cancel my order.

Steam supports Oculus but for how long under current developments.

this article isn't helping either.
http://www.slashgear.com/oculus-is-shooting-itself-in-the-foot-with-drm-20440962/

 

[Lupin]

Steam support Oculus too - this argument makes no sense, unless it's idealogical?

Who would you trust with future software support facebook or Steam?
It would be silly not to support all VR hardware with your software. BUT would you want to rely on software writen by your competition?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It has been coming.....

The way I see it, and HOPE it is.......

before the update oculus store had no protection, which meant anyone with a vive could connect and get access to all of the stuff which was meant to be free *for rift owners*.
This was actually a fair amount of content.... 2 games, loads of videos and short experiences which was effectively open to being pirated.

if you had a super high end rig they worked pretty well, albeit with a few issues. lower end rigs were problematic because the big thing which revive CANT do is asyncronous timewarp because at the moment the vive does not support it, so as soon as the vive pc could not output to the 90fps, perforamance suffered.

now, in one post from Palmer lucky he stated... (roughly) that oculus store will not be a closed platform and that they wellcome input from other hardware to get their product officially supported.

on the other hand in a more recent post he also stated that revive is a hack currently using an exploit to work and as such do not expect it to continue to work, and that no software using with revive is supported.

Some people are saying this is proof Palmer has lost all control and is now pulling the facebook closed platform party line and that oculus want to be the apple of VR.

others believe (and right now I am tentatively in this camp, albeit I am concerned) that the 2 statements are not necessarily contradictory. Oculus / Palmer has said they want to support other HMDs in their store, and that indeed they need to really to sell to other players BUT that they want to do it in a fully supported manner, which included asyncronous timewarp because oculus apps are made with this core feature in mind to hit the GTX970 spec.

the hack, not only allowed users to effectively steal content for free which was meant as a bonus for purchasing the rift, but also didnt actually function as well as it did on native hardware.

My hope is, and indeed i think it is essential if oculus is to survive, is that this is the stick, and that the carrot will be official support of the vive on the oculus store "soon". But oculus have said for that to happen valve/HTC need to play ball...... the thing is, it is not in valves interest really, because they know they have all the cards when it comes to software sales. if vive never gets on the oculus store, then ultimately steam will "win" just because they are entrenched as the market leader.

time will tell imo... if vive is not fully supported by say xmas (date plucked out of the air) imo within 2 years oculus as a software platform will be effectively dead.

 

[jabokai]

Frontier has chosen for Steam and thus Vive right?

Wrong. They support both and, currently, the game runs better on CV1 judging by the complaints on here from Vive owners.

Who would you trust with future software support facebook or Steam?
It would be silly not to support all VR hardware with your software. BUT would you want to rely on software writen by your competition?

Neither, they both suck and have a chequered past. And Steam is a software platform - they will support the Rift and the OSVR project and whatever else is commercially viable because it gets them more money, simple.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Oculus is no longer just a kickstarter tech startup, its a fully funded global business out to make money.

They are attempting to implement an Apple style ecosystem for sure - its a business model that continues to make billions year on year after all - and like Apple they will do everything in their power to protect their revenue streams.

Do i agree with it, meh...