Discuss the AI here!

[Sans Daring]

dont forget time, especially when under 24 hours after the latest patch releases. Way way WAY too early for the "AI is too tough" complaints.

Yes, I think so too. There should be no calls for change yet. Suggestions on potential problems certainly. I think one of Elite's problems is one of its realisms - it doesn't help you; you learn by experience and community, so a lot of tricks aren't evident that could probably save a lot of players from a bad hit (which are being offered in this thread and others).

I think its given the game time for all players (and developers) to see what's working and what isn't - whether the AI is perfect or could do with a tweak, whether modded ships level the field or destabilise it... or do neither. Certain step back is required. SJA sounds happy with the AI so this feels the sort of level they'd like to have in the game to me.

 

[shadragon]

HATE THE NEW AI :-(

Well, at least you gave it a good try of 1 or 2 hours. More than enough time to judge a huge release like 2.1.

(Yes, sarcasm)

 

[Vorxian]

Made 1.2 million in Bonds in a cz today, took probably a bit longer then in 2.0 to get there but in adition to that I also had a mission going on that paid 3 million for kills in CZ, those missions pay a lot more now and bascily at least doubled my income from CZ. Assassination mission can pay a lot more too now, and if you fancy some res-bounthy hunting go into Antal territory. NPCs there should now have higher bountys (no need to pledge or anything, works like LYR ship and module discount it counts for everybdoy), haven't checked it but word is that bonus is now finaly implemented.

Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

One thing I have been campaigning for is balanced professions. Ofc the Robigo thing was out of sync.

I'd expect an elite combat pilot to make similar cr/h as me in my cutter doing trading. I'd like to have seen ELITE combat missions aka assassination missions take home up to 10m. It would be balanced against cutter trading. Mining and exploration equally. But since this update was the 'combat' patch, was hoping to see epic fights (tick), epic risk (tick), epic rewards... ... ... (...)

If FDEV whacked the rewards up for skilled AI combat, I think it would start to paint a picture of remarkable proportion.

 

[verminstar]

.....and with that comment, you've just exposed your true motives here. You're just another troll who is labouring under the delusion that NMS or Star Citizen is going to be the game of your dreams. I suspect that, 2 months after you start playing the former, you'll be bored shirtless with it.

Actually, I can clearly see that the biggest troll here is you with all yer little innuendos and yer ad hominem insults...almost every single comment has a trolling remark in it ^^

 

[Soliluna]

Has anyone ever picked up a game and said "I don't want to learn a thing, I don't want to improve myself, I don't want to think about what I have achieved and what next I can achieve. I don't want to see things in new perspectives or engage in a narrative through my actions. I don't want to see my choices have consequences nor my failures be punished"

If you have picked up a game and said that, gaming probably isn't for you. This is the kind of atmosphere I am getting from a lot of the players here, they would love to sit in the ship and let someone else play it. What they're looking for is Elite: The Movie.

While there are many "pacifist" professions in the game, this is not a pacifist game - it can and will, given the opportunity, knock you down. And it expects you to get back up again. You need to come to terms with that if you want to find long lasting enjoyment, because that is clearly what FD wants - it is what many of it's players want and in general it is what the entire game industry wants.

Games have been getting more and more difficult every year and will continue to do so, because this is how games got and keep traction as an industry.

 

[James Razor]

Any E: D player who does only combat will be thrilled with the new AI changes.

Any E: D player who wants to grind cash by BH'ing will be disappointed as it's no longer a cash machine. And I'm fine with that. Maybe they'll have to do something else for a change.

And if i dont want to do combat, how do i avoid these Elite Anaconda NPCs that show up even in High Security Systems and interdict u even if u only have BIOWASTE loaded?!

 

[lysan]

It's dying as we speak. Back when I first picked the game up about a year ago a lot more people played it. No mans sky is going to light a fire under FD's ass.

In your wet dreams mate, keep on the salty tears, man this is ridiculous.
Take a game like DayZ, it's hard, unforgiving, you die instantly if you fail, and you lose it all period!
The devs there are just adding danger all the time, no food, you die, get wet and cold you die, no water you die, get attacked by zombies you die, you fall from a tall building, guess what? you die! no rebuy screen, you respawn back at the coast with a silly banana, that's it.

And people love it, some rage quit, because they can't handle that its skill based, so back to XP games. My point, NMS, SC whatever you pick, are maybe games that are more a liking of players who like to be the hero of the universe.

Elite is not that type of game, never was, hopefully never will be.

 

[Nicky the Hutt]

Question is, has the new AI actually broken the cr/h ratio of players choosing the field of combat to charge their bank accounts?

Because..

If I'm killing ships after a tenuous jousing match that takes 10 minutes to finish for a whopper 34,000cr, then it stands to reason that combat is no longer viable. Combat ceases to be fun when you get nothing out of it, in addition to the way out of whack risk / reward ratio.

Ah, "high credits per effort = fun" kills the debate. You can't argue against a human emotion, you're totally entitled to feel the way you do and no one can deny it.

If they added a weekly salary combined from all the factions we raised influence for, many would pay more attention to the awesome background sim. So spoiling us with credits can be a valid technique to grab our interest. For some they don't have to, many are interested in playing regardless of the payout. But they don't start hundreds of redundant threads about it.

 

[Hondo Malistar]

dont forget time, especially when under 24 hours after the latest patch releases. Way way WAY too early for the "AI is too tough" complaints.

Fair enough, but most of the "Elite" players that don't have any complaints have a tough life in their cutters, condas or corvettes, wanna increase your skillset, work backwards, jump out of your big ships and try to kill a python and a Eagle, I can in a Cobra MKIII, that's fun and that's a challenge, this patch, just a bit overboard, just my 2 cents . . .

 

[Darrett]

As I mentioned before, it's not an AI problem, it's an engineer upgrade problem. The reason you're having your shields melted is because you're running into NPCs that can hit now (good thing), and also have some upgraded weapons that deal significantly more damage than we're accustomed to. Consider that if you were to start the game again right now, you'd be building up your engineering upgrades as you worked through the ranks. This means by the time you were in the Dangerous+ range, you'd already have some significantly upgraded modules to counteract the NPC upgrades. One of the reasons that the difficulty is high right now is because we've got the largest disparity between ourselves and the AI we've seen in upgrades, as well as being hit by enemies that can actually fight back for the first time. I'd rather FD take a look at the damage potential of the weapon upgrades or temporarily reduce the numbers of engineer upgrades on NPCs until the community catches up.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

Fair enough, but most of the "Elite" players that don't have any complaints have a tough life in their cutters, condas or corvettes, wanna increase your skillset, work backwards, jump out of your big ships and try to kill a python and a Eagle, I can in a Cobra MKIII, that's fun and that's a challenge, this patch, just a bit overboard, just my 2 cents . . .

I haven't used a big ship in two weeks. I made half a mil in an FAS in 15 minutes. Unmodified, didn't have beta to test out the new AI and gain experience, I used my already developed combat ability. You can hug anacondas and destroy their PP within 500 meters while you watch them panic trying to hit you.

 

[Nazgutek]

Any E: D player who does only combat will be thrilled with the new AI changes.

Any E: D player who wants to grind cash by BH'ing will be disappointed as it's no longer a cash machine. And I'm fine with that. Maybe they'll have to do something else for a change.

I heard that breaking a style of gameplay adds depth and character to a game.

 

[Retu81]

In your wet dreams mate, keep on the salty tears, man this is ridiculous.
Take a game like DayZ, it's hard, unforgiving, you die instantly if you fail, and you loose it all period!
The devs there are just adding danger all the time, no food, you die, get wet and cold you die, no water you die, get attacked by zombies you die, you fall from a tall building, guess what? you die! no rebuy screen, you respawn back at the coast with a silly banana, that's it.

And people love it, some rage quit, because they can't handle that its skill based, so back to XP games. My point, NMS, SC whatever you pick, are maybe games that are more a liking of players who like to be the hero of the universe.

Elite is not that type of game, never was, hopefully never will be.

Don't forget the players who will kill you a mile away with a high powered sniper rifle, while you're still climbing out of the water with your silly banana.

 

[DBCloggy]

Has anyone ever picked up a game and said "I don't want to learn a thing, I don't want to improve myself, I don't want to think about what I have achieved and what next I can achieve. I don't want to see things in new perspectives or engage in a narrative through my actions. I don't want to see my choices have consequences nor my failures be punished"

If you have picked up a game and said that, gaming probably isn't for you. This is the kind of atmosphere I am getting from a lot of the players here, they would love to sit in the ship and let someone else play it. What they're looking for is Elite: The Movie.

While there are many "pacifist" professions in the game, this is not a pacifist game - it can and will, given the opportunity, knock you down. And it expects you to get back up again. You need to come to terms with that if you want to find long lasting enjoyment, because that is clearly what FD wants - it is what many of it's players want and in general it is what the entire game industry wants.

Games have been getting more and more difficult every year and will continue to do so, because this is how games got and keep traction as an industry.

I've knocked down many times and keep getting back up. It's just extra frustrating to be interdicted and then destroyed within 30 seconds without even seeing the ship that's destroying you. I can understand it if you are ambushed by a wing in a strong signal source or whatever, but when it's a single ship like that it's difficult to take. I'm hoping that is a one off. We'll see tonight when I pick up back in my Cobra.

 

[Soliluna]

I heard that breaking a style of gameplay adds depth and character to a game.

Doesn't add depth and character but it actually does encourage people to play, Blizzard are the kings of this but most MOBA's do it too. When the meta stagnates, when people have theorycrafted the best builds and optimal ways of playing - you break it up and let them discover it again.

This learning and discovery is one of the biggest motivators used to keep people playing in long running titles. It's also one of the fundamentals of game design, an increasing challenge that requires learning to overcome, it's the best form of satisfaction/reward structure you can have which is why it works so well.

 

[Aelemar]

Question is, has the new AI actually broken the cr/h ratio of players choosing the field of combat to charge their bank accounts?

Because..

If I'm killing ships after a tenuous jousing match that takes 10 minutes to finish for a whopper 34,000cr, then it stands to reason that combat is no longer viable. Combat ceases to be fun when you get nothing out of it, in addition to the way out of whack risk / reward ratio.

At first, the cr/hr will decrease. We all need to develop the skills to deal with this new AI. The AI is not hard or even impossible, it just requires a higher skill level than what the previous AI allowed us to develop (can't get better if the situation doesn't call for it).

I went to a Haz Rez and picked on a Dangerous Python. For someone like me that used to take on wings of 4 or 5, I figured a single Python couldn't be that bad. Boy, was I wrong. I killed the thing, but had to tuck my tail between my legs after and go repair and rearm. It took a while.

You see, my normal approach is, target power plant, all pips to weapons, game over.

After, I went to a lower ranked RES, and picked on a few ships there. After getting a feel for how NPCs act now, and taking notes (yes, notes) about my ships performance, the ifs and hows of why it may not be working as before, etc etc, I went back to the station and made some changes.

So I go back to the Haz Res. I wanted to pick on a Python again, preferably the same rank as before. Once I found it, I carefully kept my distance, scanned it, and this time I decided to target the drives.

So I fired the first shot. As expected, the Python turned around immediately and started pummeling me. However, this time I was more prepared, and with a bit of FA Off and some aggressive maneuvering (oh, my poor HOTAS joystick), I managed, for the most part, to keep the Python on my sights. As soon as its shields were gone, I positioned myself behind it and blasted its drives with a railgun. Few more hits and the Python suddenly slowed to a crawl.

This encounter took about half the time it did the first time.

The point being... We all have to learn to adapt and deal with our shiny new, smarter AI. Personally, I love every bit of it. I don't remember the last time I attacked an NPC with a real feeling that I might not survive.

Before, it was like:

"Wing of 5? Meh"
"Elite Conda?" Meh
"Two Elite condas?" Hmm... meh

Now it's like:

"Dangerous Python?" > thinks > thinks some more > thinks even more > shoots the Python > Python turns around and shoots me > The words "Sh*t, bad choice* flash through my mind, followed by "Maybe I should run"

Thank you, Frontier.

 

[Pumabear8]

Sounds like insta-kill. Something that doesn't exist in this exaggered form. Provide a video as proof and you may be considered valid.

No, not instakill, it took all of about 15 seconds, about 15 seconds for me to watch my expensive ship and cargo disintegrate, btw, I don't give a rats       whether the forum believes me, especially not those demanding proof, good day sir.

 

[Bazorlag]

As I mentioned before, it's not an AI problem, it's an engineer upgrade problem. The reason you're having your shields melted is because you're running into NPCs that can hit now (good thing), and also have some upgraded weapons that deal significantly more damage than we're accustomed to. Consider that if you were to start the game again right now, you'd be building up your engineering upgrades as you worked through the ranks. This means by the time you were in the Dangerous+ range, you'd already have some significantly upgraded modules to counteract the NPC upgrades. One of the reasons that the difficulty is high right now is because we've got the largest disparity between ourselves and the AI we've seen in upgrades, as well as being hit by enemies that can actually fight back for the first time. I'd rather FD take a look at the damage potential of the weapon upgrades or temporarily reduce the numbers of engineer upgrades on NPCs until the community catches up.

Community will never catch up if the game intents to stay alive. Constant influx of new players (buyers) is wanted and needed and they have to be able to deal with the system now and later and very much later. If you just play softball with current people and then tighten the noose... [squeeeee]

 

[DBCloggy]

For those that don't agree, just ask them to clear their save and start from a 'Harmless' sidewinder and join in a Community Goal in OPEN without winging up.

Even then they have the advantage of being combat hardened. They aren't fiddling about trying to remember what key does this that and the other and have all sorts of skills new players will not yet possess.

 

[C. Vektra]

The AI's are a nice challenge if I'm flying one of my ships outfitted for fighting. The problem is when you're flying a freighter, or a ship outfitted for exploration. My Asp got interdicted by an Eagle sporting some pretty nasty missiles last night, and I managed to get away with only 3% hull left. Wasn't expecting that. It nice to have hard AI's when you're actually seeking out combat, but if you're playing one of the other 2 game modes, I can see how this can be very upsetting.