Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
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Holy ginormous 110 page thread, Batman! Anyway, here's my first impression of the new AI (in case anybody ever makes it this far into this thread).

A little background first:

I am pretty new to ED. I just started playing around February and only have the base game, but am planning on buying the season pass soon. I am currently ranked dangerous (so the game usually spawns somewhat rank appropriate enemies) and have earned most of my money RES grinding (simply because it was the fastest way to make money for me), but I have also ran many missions, and have spent over a month exploring. I have not done much mining or trading, but do cargo/courier missions fairly frequently to take a break from combat. I play mostly with FA on, and use gimballed weapons because I have found them better for RES farming than fixed. It's been, a couple of months since I saw a rebuy screen.

So, I decided after hearing all the horror stories of the new insta-death AI, I would start slow. I upgraded my (mostly) A rated Vulture to a c3 mc replacing the c3 frag cannon I was running (c3 beam on other hardpoint).

First, I went to a lowres. My first combat was with a expert vulture that somehow instantly took my fuel tank down to 1/4 full (what witchcraft is this?!). Anyway, after taking him out, I stooged around and took out some eagles but quickly got bored and went to the station to refuel.

Next, I tried a standard res. Meh, AI was a little tougher but still kinda boring so I decided to try a hires.

Here, things got interesting. Got in a prolonged fight with an adder (lol!) that I actually had to struggle to keep in my sights. He even got behind me a couple of times and I had to shake him, then resume the fight. He managed to ding me down to 75% hull damage before I finally took him out. A little later, I got in a fight with a DBS with similar results. I actually had to throw it in reverse a couple of times just to get him in my sights (something I've never had to do before). Anyway, after about an hour or so, it was time for bed, so with 59% hull and 1000 rounds of ammo left, I decided to go cash my bounties. Got interdicted on the way to the station, but didn't feel like dealing with it, so just boosted away (in a vulture w/ c class boosters no less), and had no problems escaping. Made about 1.5 mil (not counting KWS income), which was quite a bit less than usual.

Observations:

The NPC AI is definitely much improved, but the system authority ships are also much more effective. No more watching cops and robbers duke it out for 10 minutes with no result. Several times, I wasn't able to use my KWS because ships were taking so much damage, I would have missed the bounty if I had used it.
Small ships are much more effective. I actually almost felt slightly threatened by an eagle at one point.
I hope there is some way I can upgrade my ship for better maneuverability, like the AI seems to have.
Yes, it's harder to make money bounty hunting, but missions seem to pay way more now. I ran a couple of super easy 1-jump courier missions and made over 100K. Not terrible pay for easy money.
Didn't try hazres as they almost always spawn flights of three and taking on a flight of 3 ships by yourself is no longer a viable option. I did take on a couple of flights in the hires, but you'd better make sure your enemy's wingmates are preoccupied fighting other ships before doing this.
I didn't got blowed up, so there's that.

Conclusion: AI is more difficult, enough to actually be a challenge, but not unreasonably so, but at the same time, should not be made harder like some of the "old pros" think (people still need to be able to trade and explore without getting blown up every day). I do think the difficulty should be revisited in a while after everybody has had a chance to get used to it. Disclaimer: This is my initial opinion based on my first night playing with v1.6. I reserve the right to change it if deemed necessary by future events.
 
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We've been discussing this video a bit. Plurality opinion is some sort of bug, either latency or other damage modifier error. Is this you flying? If so, can you confirm what kind of shield and hull you have?

Yes, I see that now. Didn't expect my video to have several pages worth of discussion in another thread so quickly.

Anyway, my Python has A6 shields with two A rated boosters, so they should not have dropped that quickly. I don't think I've ever even seen Eagles drop shields quite that fast. I'm a bit too poor at the moment to have any upgrades to my hull, but I doubt it would have helped in this case.

I also don't think it's latency. Watch my ship's hologram. The thermal attack warning comes from some other ship that accidentally shot my ass, no big deal. And when the vulture pounds on me from above, you can clearly see several shots being laid down at a ridiculous rate.

Lysander lysan, you make me laugh. True, my pip management may not have been the best tonight (clearly visible from me forgetting to put them to weapons at first :D). Guess that's the last time I drink and fly.
However, there is absolutely NO way I could have possibly been destroyed that quickly. And you would be a fool to say otherwise.
 
Holy Makaroni !
After one day at work and a night at the pub i come back to the ED forum for a quick glance, only to realize i missed an entire threadnought in the making.
I take it the balance has shifted towards the "make it harder" camp for the time being.
Enjoy your spoils....while they last.;)
 
I think someone has hit the nail on the head, the AI itself is fine. It's ruthless and dangerous; the problem lies with what they're armed with and while it's a good way to encourage people to take up Horizons because of the boosts that Engineers can provide, it is maybe too much too soon for current players to adapt to. New players will be absolutely fine as they'll learn as they play as if it's always been that way whereas we have suddenly unknow everything and start over. Thing that's really bugging me is the seemingly infinite ammo chaff and SCBs the NPCs have - maybe they should have consumable ammo rather than a limitless supply.
 
I really wish that they could have squeezed in NPC wings at the same time as AI improvements and weapons mods. Would have been a bit of a counter for the poor traders just trying to do their thing.
 
I'm curious... some folks are reporting having no trouble and others such as myself are being cut down fast in a kitted out FDL none the less, by lesser ships. I don't have Horizons and I'm wondering if the trouble is more limited to version 1.6.

I've heard people insinuating that folks claiming to be shreaded in seconds are basically liars. Well... I'm spending most of my time running like I'm in a Hauler with a Python chasing me... but it's lesser ships... run away! :D ...it's funny, but depressing too.

Mods... can we get a poll in another thread asking those having major issues with combat, which version they have?... 2.1 or 1.6?... thanks.


Thing that's really bugging me is the seemingly infinite ammo chaff and SCBs the NPCs have - maybe they should have consumable ammo rather than a limitless supply.
Yeah right?... I had two smaller ships chasing me and I counted thirty plus missiles fly by me before I escaped... seemed a little extreme... and those where the ones that missed me.
 
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I voted "other", because I have mixed feelings...

I'm very much all for more difficult AI! Seriously, I grew very tired of playing "chase the tail" with NPCs, well... that and 'jousting'. NPCs being more efficient in combat is a great change, as it was previously entirely too easy! Small ships (like a DB Scout) should not be able to solo an Elite Anaconda NPC. Heck, considering that a player almost always gets instant agro when they are attacking the same enemy as other NPCs are... a DB Scout should even be able to survive a barrage from an Anaconda for too long before exploding!

So, NPCs should be more challenging than they were pre 2.1...

I however DO NOT agree with them being programmed with the ability to cheat (for a lack of better words).

Infinite ammo, OK, I can understand that, but fighting against an EAGLE with twin rails that shoots them NON STOP, back to back to back to back, without overheating... without draining their capacitor... is just too danged much!

Then you add their impossible flight characteristics/physics.... I would expect and accept an NPC flying directly in front of me, going away from me, to turn FA off and rotate 180 to face me... and start firing at me while continuing in their initial direction... but when they start flying LOOPS like a fricken gnat directly in front of me, always maintaining the same distance away from me... while I'm flying at 300+... nope, sorry, not buying it. The amount of thrust that would be required to make that happen is extremely unrealistic and perhaps even impossible. Backwards, vertical up, forward, vertical down, backwards, vert up... etc etc etc... impossible. Well, not "impossible" for the AI that's programmed to do it... but realistically speaking, impossible. It is more or less.. cheating.

I can understand NPCs being programmed with ~some~ amount of 'cheating'... in order to make up for what they don't have... instinct, irrational thinking, free will... etc etc etc. But this is... up-down-up-down-L-R-L-R-B-A-select-start kind of cheating!



So.. my TL;DR version is: I think we need "challenging" NPCs/AI in order to make the game, fair.. because it is NOT fair if a single player can easily pwn a ship 10 times larger than what they are flying. However, the AI is in need of some more work! They need to follow most of the same rules of physics and ship-mechanics that we have to follow... such as overheating and draining capacitors and having to wait for it to recharge before they can shoot again.

Their "level" of difficulty needs to be, more often than not, equal to or slightly less than that of the player... with random encounters from time to time.. but not too infrequently, where the NPC is just too much for the player, causing the player to have to run, or get help.

It should NOT always be able for a player to survive.
It should NOT always be possible for a player to flee... and survive.
It SHOULD be possible, for an NPC to disable a player's ship, not destroy it... and then leave the player their to have to figure it out themselves! :)

That's most of my thoughts on the subject.
 
The fact of the matter is you jumped on these experiences of other Cmdr`s to reinforce you view and argument against the AI as it now stands and ran with it. My view on this is you have no first hand experience of it where as I have so my point supersedes yours until you have a run out in your conda and give a first hand account of your exploits. Then you can make a valid contribution on the matter otherwise you are just regurgitating other peoples opinions.

I...am clearly up against a concrete wall of misconception here, and it's 4am. All I will say is, I haven't jumped on anything, I haven't got an "agenda", I'm not mentioning random posts as anything other than suggestions that something could be going on, and I'm certainly not getting involved in some form of evidential arms-race with someone who has so horribly mangled my intentions. I'm sorry, Moonax. I have nothing against you, but honestly I don't think I'm going to make much headway with you even if I tried, so I'm just going to leave it there.

Also, I don't have an Anaconda. Due to a personal "quirk" regarding in-game criminal charges of irritating intensity, I cleared my save just before 2.1 after my PDS turrets earned me a murder rap - something that was fixed in the latest patch as it turns out, because sod's law [blah] I am presently in a Viper IV, living the dream firsthand. I won't be back into my FdL for a good long while yet by the looks of things, never mind an Anaconda.
 
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I'm curious... some folks are reporting having no trouble and others such as myself are being cut down fast in a kitted out FDL none the less, by lesser ships. I don't have Horizons and I'm wondering if the trouble is more limited to version 1.6.

I've heard people insinuating that folks claiming to be shreaded in seconds are basically liars. Well... I'm spending most of my time running like I'm in a Hauler with a Python chasing me... but it's lesser ships... run away! :D ...it's funny, but depressing too.

Mods... can we get a poll in another thread asking those having major issues with combat, which version they have?... 2.1 or 1.6?... thanks.


I`m afraid if you stay with 1.6, combat is going to be harder for you if you can`t avail of weapon/engine mods etc especially against human players. On the 1.6/2.1 front my guess is the AI is the same on both.
 
Well here is your problem, you are flying for combat. Not everybody in this thread are combat pilots, some are traders, explorers, etc.
It's these players who are being adversely affected.
The mid to high rank AI NPCs are to good to allow players to escape. And trade ships are useless in combat. Exploration ships are not bad in combat, when they are outfitted for that role specifically.

I'm all for the improved AI, but the implementation needs to be improved.
Traders, while not be entirely free from combat, should not be pitted against high rank NPCs in combat ships, it's overkill.
Combat oriented pilots should be able to stick to NPCs that they feel comfortable taking on. They shouldn't be subjected to any particular skill level because of their combat rank.

Simple fix is set it up like it was in beta 6 where it only takes fish to upgrade all modules, do so & 90% on this post will no longer complain. Gut feeling....
 
No, you keep it because you are afraid of the AI. This is not happening every second, sorry. Ive flying for more than 8 hours, never seen something like that except in the video. don't mean it may not happen, I mean this is not the default behavior.


I fear the rebuy cost. Not the ai.

I never really used the conda for combat. Mainly Cgs, or if I felt like simply using it in a res just for fun.I use it primaerly for exploring.

Kinda takes the fun out for me caus I really liked using it. :/
 
I...am clearly up against a concrete wall of misconception here, and it's 4am. All I will say is, I haven't jumped on anything, I haven't got an agenda, I'm not gathering random posts as anything other than suggestions that something could be going on, and I'm certainly not getting involved in some form of evidential arms-race with someone who has so horribly mangled my intentions. I'm sorry, Moonax. I have nothing against you, but honestly I don't think I'm going to make much headway with you even if I tried, so I'm just going to leave it there.

Also, I don't have an Anaconda. Due to a personal "quirk" regarding in-game criminal charges of irritating intensity, I cleared my save just before 2.1 after my PDS turrets earned me a murder rap - something that was fixed in the latest patch as it turns out, because sod's law [blah] I am presently in a Viper IV, living the dream firsthand. I won't be back into my FdL for a good long while yet by the looks of things, never mind an Anaconda.

Well then I`d keep my powder dry if I were you and not let preconceptions get the better of you until you can try the AI yourself and make an informed decision on same then.
 
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Simple fix is set it up like it was in beta 6 where it only takes fish to upgrade all modules, do so & 90% on this post will no longer complain. Gut feeling....

1.6 players do not have access to mods. I play both, 1.6 and 2.1. I feel for the 1.6 players...
 
I think someone has hit the nail on the head, the AI itself is fine. It's ruthless and dangerous; the problem lies with what they're armed with and while it's a good way to encourage people to take up Horizons because of the boosts that Engineers can provide, it is maybe too much too soon for current players to adapt to. New players will be absolutely fine as they'll learn as they play as if it's always been that way whereas we have suddenly unknow everything and start over. Thing that's really bugging me is the seemingly infinite ammo chaff and SCBs the NPCs have - maybe they should have consumable ammo rather than a limitless supply.

Actually, I didn't notice NPCs spamming chaff much more than usual. My response is to just get close enough to them that it doesn't matter.
 
Holy Makaroni !
After one day at work and a night at the pub i come back to the ED forum for a quick glance, only to realize i missed an entire threadnought in the making.
I take it the balance has shifted towards the "make it harder" camp for the time being.
Enjoy your spoils....while they last.;)

"Threadnought" is my new Word of the Now.
 
A: "Here's a video of someone being attacked by a shark"

B: "Yea, well I've never been attacked by a shark, so you can't prove shark attacks happen"


clap.gif
 
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