Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Then I'm going to have to assert that your Corvette's sheer volume of fire was plenty to overwhelm the smaller ships you were dealing with. I am in a Clipper at rank Dangerous. Previously I would have no trouble taking on as many as seven Anacondas (I did this regularly during the Isinor CG) simultaneously, and I was perfectly able in PVP. Now single AI Cobras are posing a significant threat.

Are you serious?
I have four turreted multi cannons, small and medium. Then two huge multi cannons that are gimballed. I have no thruster upgrades. It is purely the tactics I use that allow me to keep guns on the target. DPS is what kills things. The longer you have guns on target the more DPS you are dealing. It's that simple. It's not an AI issue, its a silly commander problem.

Seven Anaconda's in a clipper. You are straight up lying.

I just showed that a single AI Cobra could not possibly be a real threat. Especially if you think you were killing 7 Anaconda's at a time...
 
Last edited:
Are you serious?
I have four turreted multi cannons, small and medium. Then two huge multi cannons that are gimballed. I have no thruster upgrades. It is purely the tactics I use that allow me to keep guns on the target. DPS is what kills things. The longer you have guns on target the more DPS you are dealing. It's that simple. It's not an AI issue, its a silly commander problem.

Yes, I'm serious - you have six multicannons - I have two and some lasers for shields, both of which are the best I can fit in those slots, and NPCs respond to being hit with them like I was throwing sand at them. The Clipper's hardpoint placement makes it impossible to deal with chaff and SCB spamming NPCs. This wasn't a problem before, and now it is, so something has changed. Next time I'm in game I'll shadowplay some combat.

I'm just going to say, you're lying.

In the Clipper it was as easy as splitting them up and keeping them turning. Not tough, and once their shields were gone, concentrated fire on their power plants had the ships down pretty quickly. With my shield setup I was able to drop their shields and huge chunks of their HP by ramming them.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I'm serious - you have six multicannons - I have two and some lasers for shields, both of which are the best I can fit in those slots, and NPCs respond to being hit with them like I was throwing sand at them. The Clipper's hardpoint placement makes it impossible to deal with chaff and SCB spamming NPCs. This wasn't a problem before, and now it is, so something has changed. Next time I'm in game I'll shadowplay some combat.

I still have to keep guns on target! All those multi-cannons are useless if I miss.
I just posted a video showing me surviving mutliple encounters. You don't survive if you're continually being shot. This is not an AI issue, it is an issue with your strategy or lack there of.

The Clipper is not capable of doing what you're asking of it. That is your problem.

In the Clipper it was as easy as splitting them up and keeping them turning. Not tough, and once their shields were gone, concentrated fire on their power plants had the ships down pretty quickly. With my shield setup I was able to drop their shields and huge chunks of their HP by ramming them.

That's not simultaneously is it...
 
Last edited:
He's not lying. I saw him take on 34 Anacondas armed with nothing but a potato masher and a Batman mask. It's all on WSHH - in the $18 per view section :D

You should've seen the time I took out a couple of Farraguts by myself in my Sidewinder, which at the time was armed only with a sharp stick and a wad of bubblegum. This was of course while being hounded by Gunships.

That's not simultaneously is it...

Simultaneously may have been the wrong word, but they were single encounters. Usually during the Isinor CG there would be 5-7 Anacondas escorting each T9 and they would tear you to bits if you didn't deal with them first.
 
Last edited:
I was looking forward to harder combat against npc's, but this? I fly a heavily armed and kitted asp just for doing undermining against trade ships.
Just d/l'd the updates today and decided to do a few runs. First target was an asp, I never lost to an asp but this one took less than 30 seconds to have me down to 31% hull before I could escape. Better ai I want to see, overpowered npc's is just not good. Military composite armor and a class 5 hull boost, 5a prismatic shields with 2 boosters and I had half his shields down when I hit 30% armor left. "NO" this needs a bit toning down.
 
Last edited:
You should've seen the time I took out a couple of Farraguts by myself in my Sidewinder, which at the time was armed only with a sharp stick and a wad of bubblegum. This was of course while being hounded by Gunships.

That's nothing. I had to reboot a production NT4 Server using a toad.
 
In the Clipper it was as easy as splitting them up...

So you didn't take them on simultaneously. You split them up because you couldn't take on seven Anaconda's simultaneously. By this logic, I've taken on dozens of Anacondas, Pythons, Vultures, and other fighters, simultaneously. I just split them up and killed them one at a time.
 
You should've seen the time I took out a couple of Farraguts by myself in my Sidewinder, which at the time was armed only with a sharp stick and a wad of bubblegum. This was of course while being hounded by Gunships.



Simultaneously may have been the wrong word, but they were single encounters. Usually during the Isinor CG there would be 5-7 Anacondas escorting each T9 and they would tear you to bits if you didn't deal with them first.

Yeah, I am sure you could take on AN Anaconda in your Clipper. You and every other Commander here. Cobra's are a bit quicker, I'll bet you don't have guns on target near as long as you do with an Anaconda. I'll also wager that you're not able to avoid their fire near as effectively either.
Adjust your strategy.

So you didn't take them on simultaneously. You split them up because you couldn't take on seven Anaconda's simultaneously. By this logic, I've taken on dozens of Anacondas, Pythons, Vultures, and other fighters, simultaneously. I just split them up and killed them one at a time.

Yeah, I just took on like 30 ships Simultaneously, even posted a video as proof...
 
Last edited:
My point is that the AI is so deadly not because of skill but because it's able to use infinite SCBs/chaff as a measure to make itself untouchable while running circles around me with equipment that it has no reason to have access to.

I have a theory as to why there's such a disparity in player opinion - ED's RNG seems to throw higher ranked ships at you as your combat rank increases. These higher ranked ships must be able to get better engineered components. At lower ranks, they're not much better than a player ship (or are worse) and to those who mostly do trading, exploring, mining, et cetera or have really only just begun a combat career, the problem may not be apparent to them as they'll probably be interacting with engineers over the course of their progression and therefore evolving at a rate that keeps up with the tougher AI they start to encounter later.

The higher ranked players - I am Dangerous - are getting totally tricked out enemies that far exceed any non-engineered vessel's capabilities. To compound matters, these players haven't been interacting with engineers over their career (since they only just came into existence) and are therefore possibly months of progress behind the bots they're encountering. This is the only explanation I can think of as to why many of the more combat oriented players are in a tizzy about the situation.

The solution, then, would be to reduce the odds of NPCs spawning with engineered components - make them rarer opponents.

This, I can wholeheartedly agree with.

The distribution of NPC ranks seems to be skewed towards the high end , particularly at higher player rank (I'm top-end Master, within a few kills of turning Dangerous myself). On principle I don't have too much of a problem with this "gamey" mechanic, but it's totally unnecessary, so why did they do it? Just because one pilot ranks up shouldn't magically change the distribution of skill levels across the entire galaxy's NPC population. Just because an Elite Cmdr jumps into a low intensity RES shouldn't mean that suddenly everybody else in there has to deal with wings of Elite NPC pirates. Just because an Elite Cmdr jumps into a system shouldn't mean that suddenly more Elite adversaries are spawning in supercruise than there would be if the pilot arriving was ranked as a novice. Arrive in system X and see 5 NPCs in SC... say one novice, two competent, a master and one ranked deadly. This "spawn decision" should be made WITHOUT reference to your rank, only to the situation of the system. Now, if you're ranked a novice yourself, any of them [i[]could[/i] decide to have a go at you but it's likely that unless you're carrying something particularly juicy, the master and deadly ranked NPCs will consider you beneath their notice. If you're ranked deadly, probably only the master or deadly ranked NPCs will try to take you on. THAT's how you rank-match encounters with NPCs rather than spawning them to match you. You spawn what you spawn, then modify their BEHAVIOUR in the light of your rank. If we want to fight higher ranked NPCs we know where to find them. If we don't then we should be able to know where it's unlikely to find them too, not have the odds follow us around like the miasma from a bad case of flatulence.

As for the prevalence of modifications, particularly on the high-end NPCs, I agree there too. There's too many of them.

Their actual piloting skill, however, those changes in the update I love and I wouldn't have FD change a thing.

Infinite SCBs/chaff are a greyer area.

We know how many chaff rounds a launcher holds. Similarly we know from our left UI how many of them the NPC has. If anyone can shoot a post-2.1 video showing that they dump more chaff bundles than all their launchers can hold, that would be something we can hold up to FD as a bug. That would not be me as I typically fly with a mostly fixed weapon loadout, but if there's such a video out there, shot post-update I WANT that bug reported and squished.

Unfortunately, SCB cheating would be more dodgy to prove. Heck, I've been accused of cheating in chat by another player when I simply managed to keep enough power flowing to my SCBs to always have one charged and ready to go. I'm not even that particularly good at PvP, I was just on a roll that night.

ETA: and as another post has reminded me, they DONT have infinite ammo for anything but MC rounds.
 
Last edited:
So you didn't take them on simultaneously. You split them up because you couldn't take on seven Anaconda's simultaneously. By this logic, I've taken on dozens of Anacondas, Pythons, Vultures, and other fighters, simultaneously. I just split them up and killed them one at a time.

Simultaneously may have been the wrong word, but they were single encounters. Usually during the Isinor CG there would be 5-7 Anacondas escorting each T9 and they would tear you to bits if you didn't deal with them first.

The point of the post was that an individual Cobra has never before been a threat and now it is so either I've developed a rare incompetence complex about AI or the changes have made my Clipper obsolete. The AI is able to spam a limitless number of countermeasures that defeat the Clipper's offensive capabilities wholesale while carrying hot-rodded equipment that makes mince meat of said Clipper's very seaworthy shields. This is artificial difficulty - where something gets pointlessly hard for the sake of being pointlessly hard.

There is no strategy that can cope with an untouchable Cobra that my guns cannot track orbiting me and laying into me with weapons that do away with my defenses in seconds flat, other than "don't bother", which was never before on the table because while Cobras are good they are not that good.
 
Last edited:
The point of the post was that an individual Cobra has never before been a threat and now it is so either I've developed a rare incompetence complex about AI or the changes have made my Clipper obsolete.

I'd say you were incompetent to begin with and now with the moron strain removed from the AI gene pool, you're struggling.
 
funny, I am elite combat rank, but only cause iv been playing so long and 15000kills adds up. I actually suck at combat and thought the game before the patch was rather hard and I ran 30% of the time from interdictions. Now I run 100% of the time as I lost a fed gunship (A rated) to an eagle earlier and it cost me 4 mil. I also cannot fly any slower bigger ship as I get killed in everyone, including my fed corvette. one day im 26,500,000 in the hold for insurance costs. no I fly my cobra and just run......wow that is soo much fun to run all the time. I just logged out a few min ago and had an interdiction from an eagle no less. figured id try him out. one pass..thats the 1st pass he made by me..178 shields gone and 12% hull damage. I had chaffed prior to his run..made no difference. I tried to turn but was down to 50% hull by 90 degress of pitch so I said to hell with this and ran..made it out thank god.
point: AI is way to hard.or they just have beefed them up past the point of what we can do with the same ship to compensate for computers not being able to do as well as humans. that lack of fairness is extremely disappointing to me as I cant safely take out my type 6 to do anything as I get interdicted about every 5 min. they need to scale it back a whole lot, or just create a difficulty slider fo folks like me who play chess on level 1 for 46 years cause iv never beaten level 2.
Ronin
 
funny, I am elite combat rank, but only cause iv been playing so long and 15000kills adds up. I actually suck at combat and thought the game before the patch was rather hard and I ran 30% of the time from interdictions. Now I run 100% of the time as I lost a fed gunship (A rated) to an eagle earlier and it cost me 4 mil. I also cannot fly any slower bigger ship as I get killed in everyone, including my fed corvette. one day im 26,500,000 in the hold for insurance costs. no I fly my cobra and just run......wow that is soo much fun to run all the time. I just logged out a few min ago and had an interdiction from an eagle no less. figured id try him out. one pass..thats the 1st pass he made by me..178 shields gone and 12% hull damage. I had chaffed prior to his run..made no difference. I tried to turn but was down to 50% hull by 90 degress of pitch so I said to hell with this and ran..made it out thank god.
point: AI is way to hard.or they just have beefed them up past the point of what we can do with the same ship to compensate for computers not being able to do as well as humans. that lack of fairness is extremely disappointing to me as I cant safely take out my type 6 to do anything as I get interdicted about every 5 min. they need to scale it back a whole lot, or just create a difficulty slider fo folks like me who play chess on level 1 for 46 years cause iv never beaten level 2.
Ronin


Git Gud (TM)
 
The point of the post was that an individual Cobra has never before been a threat and now it is so either I've developed a rare incompetence complex about AI or the changes have made my Clipper obsolete.

Cobra still isn't a threat, so I'm willing to be you've developed a rare incompetence complex AND your failed ability to maintain a combat capable Clipper has resulted in it becoming obsolete. Other, more experienced players, probably have perfectly capable combat Clippers though.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I am elite combat rank, but only cause iv been playing so long and 15000kills adds up. I actually suck at combat and thought

15000 bodies, and you didn't learn anything about combat? Is that the fault of Frontier, or your own? Run less, learn more. Ask for advice and help, and more than likely, you'll receive both.
 
Remember at school where you had to prepare for exams?

You could either learn stuff, or wing it on the fly. You could pass either way if you were good enough. You were doomed to failure if you gave no attention and were not gifted enough to wing it.

This is exactly what we see here.

I don't think this is the same. I could probably tweak the analogy, but I won't.

It seems to be about accessibility to me so far. I say "so far" because there are still a heap of things I haven't tried in 2.1. But previously, I could dabble in a lot of different things. I normally don't have a lot of time, so when I play I like to do different things here and there depending on what mood I'm in. The biggest ship I have is an Asp Explorer (kitted out very well - but with stock equipment). I tinker around in RES or CZ occasionally - knowing my limits and being prepared to run when it gets too hot. I take on smuggling missions. Other times I like landing and just driving the SRV around.

It seems now (so far) that anything combat-related is off the table from now on. I've struggled enough being attacked by Eagles and Vipers so far while mostly minding my own business. I've been doing CG trading a bit too. My experience with that is now that self-defence is not even worth considering. It's just a matter of how fast I can run.

AI improvements are one thing. But I don't think that's the whole story. Time will tell.
 
I'd say you were incompetent to begin with and now with the moron strain removed from the AI gene pool, you're struggling.

Let's do it like this: How would you deal with a Cobra that your guns cannot hit, which can fly circles around you in a literal sense, whose shields refresh to maximum constantly after those few hits your Parkinsons-gripped guns are able to land, and whose guns drain your shields like they aren't even there? This Cobra is performing far beyond the level of any normal Cobra because it spawned with RNG's blessing and got a full suite of engineer modules. What would your strategy be for this? I wasn't able to develop one, because it's rather like being attacked with a jackhammer by a ghost.

If the video you posted is anything to go by, your strategy is "spam multicannons at it until it dies and hope my shields hold", which doesn't really work for a Clipper.
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom