Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
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I have fought elite pilots without issue. I suspect the real problem is that people are used to AI that gave you a full minute to kill them before even shooting back. So now people are experiencing time differently.

As soon as SC drops, you need to pull your weapons out and start lining up your target. You only have ~ 10 seconds now before the AI opens fire. Use them to get out of his firing solution and put them in yours.

Eg, You can no longer sip your tea during combat. Doesn't mean the AI are gods though.

Ziljan, the more competent AI isn't the problem here, we've determined that some (not all!) NPC weapons are bugged in that they can drop a Python's A rated shields with multiple boosters in two seconds followed by it's 100% hull in another two seconds. The tough AI isn't the problem, the bugged weapons are.

So, you haven't read the post by SJA saying that there will be a balancing pass?

Ian, please make sure the devs are aware that this AI issue may not be the AI itself at all, but rather a weapons bug on AI ships giving Sarah's new AI a very bad rap. Before they go toning down Sarah's AI please please get them to fix the weapons bug so we can at least honestly evaluate this new AI for what it really is, and not what some insane insta-killer bug is making it seem to be.
 
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Wow, that was close, a Viper MkIV, just pulled me out of SC again. Deadly, took my Asp's shields down in 10 seconds and I was losing my Military bulkheads before I high-waked out. Damn, this is annoying. Why? I'm just on a discovery run. No affiliation, no bounty, no cargo. Jump me for the fun of it? Give me a break, already.
i fully understand. been there. thank god for the new AI police.
 
Just been instantly destroyed twice in a row so now reduced to taking a free sidewinder.

Both times "under attack" and then instant death.

Not restarting over in a sidewinder so all done. Thanks for all the fish.
 
Ziljan, the more competent AI isn't the problem here, we've determined that some (not all) NPC weapons are bugged in that they can drop a Python's A rated shields with multiple boosters in two seconds followed by it's 100% hull in another two seconds. The tough AI isn't the problem, the bugged weapons are.



Ian, please make sure the devs are aware that this AI issue may not be the AI itself at all, but rather a weapons bug on AI ships giving Sarah's new AI a very bad rap. Before they go toning down Sarah's AI please please get them to fix the weapons bug so we can at least honestly evaluate this new AI for what it really is, and not what some insane insta-killer bug is making it seem to be.
yes i agree. please look at the weapons mods first! lets judge tha AI later, more fairly.
 
Ziljan, the more competent AI isn't the problem here, we've determined that some (not all) NPC weapons are bugged in that they can drop a Python's A rated shields with multiple boosters in two seconds followed by it's 100% hull in another two seconds. The tough AI isn't the problem, the bugged weapons are.



Ian, please make sure the devs are aware that this AI issue may not be the AI itself at all, but rather a weapons bug on AI ships giving Sarah's new AI a very bad rap. Before they go toning down Sarah's AI please please get them to fix the weapons bug so we can at least honestly evaluate this new AI for what it really is, and not what some insane insta-killer bug is making it seem to be.

Report super op weapons issue to bug forum. However I think QA at this point already caught vibe of issues. Be specific though, it might be combination of outfitting that's broken.
 
I was running away from an npc adder in my anaconda not because of the piloting skill of the adder but somehow that adder had weapons far superior to my anacondas grade 6 A rated shields with seven A rated shield boosters. My shields we're going down far too quick, no player in a adder could have done that.
 
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Javert

Volunteer Moderator
Ziljan, the more competent AI isn't the problem here, we've determined that some (not all) NPC weapons are bugged in that they can drop a Python's A rated shields with multiple boosters in two seconds followed by it's 100% hull in another two seconds. The tough AI isn't the problem, the bugged weapons are.



Ian, please make sure the devs are aware that this AI issue may not be the AI itself at all, but rather a weapons bug on AI ships giving Sarah's new AI a very bad rap. Before they go toning down Sarah's AI please please get them to fix the weapons bug so we can at least honestly evaluate this new AI for what it really is, and not what some insane insta-killer bug is making it seem to be.

Good comments well made. Have you checked that this issue has been reported as a bug (and added your experience of it to the same bug if it's already reported)? Just to let you know, the volunteer moderators don't have a bat phone direct to the devs - believe it or not we have very little more interaction with any devs than anyone else on the forum, so the best way to get awareness on these things is to a) follow the process and report it on the bug forum and b) try to keep all posts polite and avoid insults or sweeping generalizations.

Your post is actually a very good point well made with some passion also so rep for that.
 
I don't doubt you for one second...I also don't doubt the fact you probably been here a lot longer than 2 weeks...am I right about that?
That depends on the individual player's ability, which regardless of when they joined this game will determine the rate at which they gain knowledge and start doing better. There are competent intelligent gamers who pick games up quickly, while others take much longer and will never do as well with talents better suited elsewhere.
 
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The fact that Horizons is not available on Mac is because Apple don't support the correct technology - that is true.

The fact that engineered weapons are still able to attack 1.6 players is probably a design decision. In order to avoid this, you would effectively have to make a wall between 1.6 and 2.1 players and say they could never meet, which would be worse. Even if they made it so that 1.6 players can't encounter NPCs with engineered weapons, this would have to be only in solo mode, otherwise any instance where there was even just one 1.6 player in there would mean that no NPC could have engineered weapons.

I can actually understand why this might seem unfair for 1.6 players, but I'm not sure how else it could be done. Perhaps they can at least tweak things to make it less likely that NPC will have souped up weapons when a 1.6 player encounters NPCs, as long as the player is alone at the time.

It is a bad design decision.

Having NPCs with engineer mods AT ALL is a bad decision

Having NPCs with engineer mods immediately on RELEASE of the upgrade is an absolutely stupid decision which shows no consideration for the userbase whatsoever.

I think F D are sitting back this weekend and having a good laugh just to make up for the long hours they put in with the great update but this overpowered AI is really getting up peoples noses.
 
Report super op weapons issue to bug forum. However I think QA at this point already caught vibe of issues. Be specific though, it might be combination of outfitting that's broken.

I haven't personally experienced it, but there is a plethora of videos and firsthand reports by commanders who have. I mean the videos are utterly ridiculous, an Eagle dropping a fully A specced Corvette at full shields and 100% hull in mere seconds. An Eagle has small hardpoints, that should NEVER ever be a thing that can happen. And it doesn't most of the time in 2.1, but it is happening enough to be making players extremely frustrated and angry. And rightfully so, IMHO.

It's not improved combat AI making the salt here, it's bugged weapons on AI ships.

There is a bug report post in the forum for it here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=255442

Although I don't know if we are 100% certain that it is a rate of fire bug only, but it does certainly seem to be a component of this issue.
 
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Again, with the interdiction! I can't even line up the Escape Vector fast enough, I just let it take me out of SC and hit the gas, running, jerking, Flight Assist off and hoping the FSD will reload sometime in the next 30 seconds before I become space dust. Since I don't stand a chance anyway, there's no reason to stay and fight.
 
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2.1 My First Impressions (in an A rated Python, an all-rounder, perfect for mission running)
The trouble with change is that you can immediately see what you have lost but you can't straight away see what you have gained. In other words, you can very quickly see, oh no I cannot do that any more, and it was such an easy OR high paying thing. BUT, it is harder to see what the new ways are to have fun or make those high value gains, quickly or easily or in a way that you enjoy.

My first finding was that missions tend to give a lot more money now, especially the fetch so many of commodity X. To me, before, it always seemed stupid that a haulage mission, where you don't have to pay for the goods, and is a simple one way trip, paid far more than the buy and then return with n tons of commodity X type missions where you have to buy the goods yourself and then return with them, a lot more hassle for a lot less money, I used to love stacking these up in previous releases but then at some point they became the poor mans cousin of the haulage mission and they just weren't worth it anymore (except to play the BGS and increase a particular factions influence). Also it seems you get 24 hours by default to do the mission although this is a little misleading, you sometimes get a message that requires you to finish the mission faster or deliver to a different place (sometimes with a nice big bonus). Its possible that some of these mission rewards will get buffed so probably best to make hay whilst the sun shines.

I don't seem to get as interdicted as often as before, only once so far, by a DBE. I fumbled and he got me down to one ring before running away. Previously, I wouldn't have lost any rings but I fumbled when re-directing power to weapons, on selecting a sub-target, and generally being ready when the encounter started so it was my fault. Normally when interdicted, I will target the FSD or drives on the target so they cannot escape but this time I fumbled, targeted the wrong sub-system, and so he got away.

I don't consider myself to be an expert at combat but I do FA off/FA on to get my turning circle (bloody hell, there isn't any choice in a python!) and thrust with FA off in up to 2 axes simultaneously to either get the target in sight or dodge their fire. I went into a CNB to see how the increased AI had changed combat, but I was very cautious. Virtually all the ships were ranked Elite, the few that weren't were ranked Deadly or Dangerous, there weren't any pirates below these ranks.
I noticed some PP ships around, a Duval one and an Archon Delaine Elite Anaconda who buzzed my ship now and then. I wasn't sure if attacking him would some how get me entangled in the PP side of things so I left him well alone.
I noticed a pirate Elite Anaconda in a fight with a smaller ship that was zooming around it and thought OK I'll give it a try, I can always run away if things go pair shaped (or so I hoped). I warrant scanned him, got up close and let rip with all my weapons, he blew up very quickly, much faster than I expected. That gave me a 320000 CR bounty, far more than I would have expected, normally only pirate lords (from assassination missions) dish up that kind of bounty. I took on several other ships of varying sizes and ranks (but never a whole wing in one go). I won each fight losing more shield than I would have previously. Also after every fight was a whole load of materials from the debris that could be collected. I was not sure if they were useful so I just picked them up anyway.

As for the difficult of the NPC AI, I think Frontier can satisfy everyone here by having interdictions mainly by low ranking lower ability NPCs especially in hi-security systems on the main trade routes and have the more deadlier NPCs in the more dangerous areas: HAZ RESs, HI RESs, and in particular, combat zones. I am not sure about CNBs. I don't think Anarchy systems should particularly have higher ranked NPC pirates, just more of the stupid ones. However, this is all in Frontiers hands, but don't despair. I believe that Frontier have some re-balancing to do, I believe they will get down to it very quickly. Whenever they release something, it seems like their priority is to make sure there are no fatal flaws in the software and then they can subsequently fix issues and re-balance the game after the main release with updates and this was a big release so expect lots of bugs and re-balancing.
 
I haven't personally experienced it, but there is a plethora of videos and firsthand reports by commanders who have. I mean the videos are utterly ridiculous, an Eagle dropping a fully A specced Corvette at full shields and 100% hull in mere seconds. An Eagle has small hardpoints, that should NEVER ever be a thing that can happen. And it doesn't most of the time in 2.1, but it is happening enough to be making players extremely frustrated and angry. And rightfully so, IMHO.

It's not improved combat AI making the salt here, it's bugged weapons on AI ships.

Then forward those people to QA bug forum. That's only way to fix this.
 
I actually like some of the AI behavior modifications, but voted 'too hard' because of:
- sometimes seems to bug out and deal insane amounts of damage (had something akin to this happen: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4ldut6/ai_weapon_bug_a_little_more_than_dangerous/ )
- waaaay too many NPCs heavily decked out in engineer modifications (NPCs got the engineer expansion without a 3 month delay, it seems)
- while AI behavior is really improved, the increased time it takes to take out a hostile should be reflected in the bounties

'Questions are a burden to others' :)

to add to your point:

...and what about the folks who don't choose to "engineer"? will people hold off until they obtain 'A' rated equipment? it seems an arms race has been created where everyone is obliged to join.

i really feel sorry for the traders, miners, fuel rats, explorers, whoever - those who just want to be in the game (some to enjoy some rest), and have to face this nonsense.

this is no longer a sandbox - it's "go this way, or be fried in milliseconds".

....just takes the steam out of the boiler (oh, i see, a rail gun round went through it)

:)
 
I haven't personally experienced it, but there is a plethora of videos and firsthand reports by commanders who have. I mean the videos are utterly ridiculous, an Eagle dropping a fully A specced Corvette at full shields and 100% hull in mere seconds. An Eagle has small hardpoints, that should NEVER ever be a thing that can happen. And it doesn't most of the time in 2.1, but it is happening enough to be making players extremely frustrated and angry. And rightfully so, IMHO.

It's not improved combat AI making the salt here, it's bugged weapons on AI ships.

I approve this message.
 
The fact that Horizons is not available on Mac is because Apple don't support the correct technology - that is true.

The fact that engineered weapons are still able to attack 1.6 players is probably a design decision. In order to avoid this, you would effectively have to make a wall between 1.6 and 2.1 players and say they could never meet, which would be worse. Even if they made it so that 1.6 players can't encounter NPCs with engineered weapons, this would have to be only in solo mode, otherwise any instance where there was even just one 1.6 player in there would mean that no NPC could have engineered weapons.

I can actually understand why this might seem unfair for 1.6 players, but I'm not sure how else it could be done. Perhaps they can at least tweak things to make it less likely that NPC will have souped up weapons when a 1.6 player encounters NPCs, as long as the player is alone at the time.

So basically 1.6 is obsolete... and anyone who has it will be necessarily permanently inferior to everyone and everything else in the game...(through no fault of their own) I can put Windows on my Mac and run Horizons as I understand it ...but I don't care at all for the designed obsolescence of Frontier Development to coerce said action.
 
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Okay, the shields on my Vulture (~500 MJ) just got stripped by a single turret on a python in 5-10 seconds. That's just plain ridiculous. The turrets used to normally be a nuisance, and now they just destroy me... It's probably fine when I've modified my ship completely, but it's just insanely overpowered with anything less.
 
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I love these threads, I knew this would happen when the AI got its updates. All the bounty hunters now have to work for their cash and are moaning that it is far to hard now. Suck it up buttercups you all asked for this.
 
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