The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Voivod]

First person avatar game play also means the ability to shop in game. Character customization via clothing is also a very important core element of any MMO that features such game play.

Oh come on! You're literally defending a company prioritizing CLOTHES SHOPPING over numerous other features that constitute an MMO.
BDO is a complex modern MMO with and only 2-3 armor sets for each class (iirc).
But I'm sure CIG know a lot more about making a proper mmo

Some ships handle better then others but overall I enjoy the fast turning of even medium sized ships more then the 'takes forever to turn 180 degrees on anything not super small' we see in E: D.

Ironically, it's slower as to avoid the problem of "just point and shoot" the SC FM model consists of.

 

[viceroy_blue]

Hello, I think it'd be more than constructive to read what was promised and what was delivered as of now. It's easy to bash developers for missed deadlines, broken promises and such, they're humans after all, and they do provide jobs for the industry as a point of consideration. But.. what's the credit of individual people give them in the first place. That can't be standardized or normalized, but there we have a thing called common sense. That's the point of voicing criticisms in the first place.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description this is the kickstarter campaign.

What we have now is a pvp module called arena commander (instanced pvp, if you like), a fps module (SQ42) which is announced to be a seperate buy from SC, and a "persistent" (more on this later) "universe", which is in reality a single port for spawning and several points of interest to wander.
Now, I, for one, think Mr. Roberts miscalculated the scope of the game he was advertising. It will take much more resources, much more effort and time to deliver the game that was promised in the kickstarter.
I'll cut the crap and say this: People were promised a universe like EvE, with all mining, industry, corps, pvp and such, with the latest Cryengine and eye candy, but after 4 years, are given an abstract. People invested thousands of dollars for this vision, but getting very little in return. That's why people are asking questions.

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

Oh come on! You're literally defending a company prioritizing CLOTHES SHOPPING over numerous other features that constitute an MMO.
BDO is a complex modern MMO with and only 2-3 armor sets for each class (iirc).
But I'm sure CIG know a lot more about making a proper mmo








Ironically, it's slower as to avoid the problem of "just point and shoot" the SC FM model consists of.

Yes the 'faster' SC FM looks so much better

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Changing subject a bit. Something I have been meaning to ask. Does anyone have any insights as to why the miniPU has that apparently arbitrary and much shorter size limit for the Z axis compared to the other two? I mean, I presume 64b double precision floating point does not limit any of that, to the contrary. No?

 

[Sydivision77]

Again, can D***k and the Citizen sub reddit Seaorg kindly do one, and conduct their war of words on yonder. This thread isnt the place for you tedious bickerings.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Underwater pressure, duh (sorry, I really had to, though it is an interesting question).

 

[Stigbob]

Not a very constructive response. First person avatar game play also means the ability to shop in game. Character customization via clothing is also a very important core element of any MMO that features such game play. The flight model is fine for the most part. Some ships handle better then others but overall I enjoy the fast turning of even medium sized ships more then the 'takes forever to turn 180 degrees on anything not super small' we see in E: D.

I guess our mileage varies here but for quick action the Arena Commander is already quite enjoyable, but not exactly well balanced.

I'm a space flight sim enthusiast and I own pretty much all of them, what star citizen is currently offering does not meet the minimum standard to compete in the genre. Fan made mods based on the freespace2open project are better and that engine was released in 1999.

If you want to turn really quickly in ED the trick is maneuvering thrusters and FA off.

I just got jumped by a master imperial eagle (NPC) whilst taking a max range stripped down viper 3 to an engineer so I could fit enhanced thrusters, I hadn't set my fire groups and the build was all d-rating bar FSD and shields fixed burst and gimballed cannons. He got me down to one shield ring whilst I failed to outrun him and got my weapons setup (I did it backwards lasers on the thumb switch DOH), the only way I got him out of my blindspot was FA off and even then he was straight back in it whenever range closed up. I countered that with downthrust whilst turning into him opening the gap and negating his close range maneuver advantage. He used afterburners FA off and continually forced me to adapt, he had a turret on his dorsal hard-point that kept hitting me even when I had him dogged tight. It was a really close thing, I destroyed him just as my shields went down.

That NPC was only a master flying one of the weakest ships in the game, great fun.

I'll never get anything close to that in SC unless something drastic happens to change the absolute basics.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Just to add to the discussion, I wonder how the QD implementation in SC differs from linear shift drive (LSD) in I-War 2 (released in 2001), which offered relatively large systems with truly seamless fast travel between points of interest. It was single-player only, though, with LSD disabled in multiplayer, so the development of QD was certainly a bigger challenge.

 

[Toumal]

Sure here it was in the 10 FOR THE DEVELOPERS: EPISODE 11 link:http://imperialnews.network/2016/05/10-for-the-developers-episode-11/
story starts at 3:56....here below is the transcript:
"[3:56] Q: There was a story about spaceship movement being bugged which no one could figure it out until finally someone said something about CryEngine simulating everything as if underwater. Are are any similar stories nightmare bugs that were actually easy to fix if you just knew a particular oddity of the engine?

A: Roughly two years ago, John Pritchett had flown out from Kansas and everyone was working to get Arena Commander out but the ships just started acting weird. John spent two or three days trying to figure out what was going on. Finally he walked up to the other engineers and said “Our ships are underwater”. Turns out that by default CryEngine has water under every level so anything that goes below 0 on the z-axis is considered to be underwater even when you’re in space! After that it was a simple fix."

Wow I completely missed your reply.
That's pretty sad. BTW the default water level isn't exactly at 0, but at 16 units (for some reason...)
There's a level parameter called "Remove Ocean" which if set to true changes the water level to -100000 (Yeah it doesn't actually remove it...)

Of course I dunno if these parameters are in the fork of CE that CIG is using, but that's what comes as standard in vanilla CE.

 

[lysan]

Yes and no. They could have stopped adding stretch goals early, removing the first person avatar gameplay or postponing it would have certainly helped to speed up the development. The downside is that it would have created a number of other problems later on. As all ships would have to be re-designed to accomodate first person gameplay, which would have been much more of a nightmare.

In any case the 2014 release date was way to optimistic but I am happy as long as development continues, which it certainly will.

An example from Elite Dangerous. Small fighter craft as guardians for larger ships are planned for an update late this year. I already see a number of problems with that. As the game play for this kind of ships is at the moment somewhat sub-standard.

The Imperial Cutter was advertised as a warship, but the actual game play forces it into a heavily shielded trader role. The bays on the side are also too small for any small fighter ship.

So essentially the Cutter and Corvette would have to be at least partially re-designed. Both ship model and gameplay wise. Now imagine you want to put first person game play into there as well. While the hulls look nice from the outside, it will be an entirely different level of complexity to design them with the player walking on the inside in mind. Now add features like local physics grid and you see some of the headaches that are troubling the SC development.

Still I am confident the problems are solvable and the results will be worth the wait. IMHO what can be seen in 2.4. is already worth waiting.

Don't you worry FD know how to pipeline their production, so its all ok and under control.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Wow I completely missed your reply.
That's pretty sad. BTW the default water level isn't exactly at 0, but at 16 units (for some reason...)
There's a level parameter called "Remove Ocean" which if set to true changes the water level to -100000 (Yeah it doesn't actually remove it...)

Of course I dunno if these parameters are in the fork of CE that CIG is using, but that's what comes as standard in vanilla CE.

Well I never used CE but just my common sense was telling me that this was ridicules....I am glad that someone that is using CE can confirm this absurdity and lack of knowledge inside of the CIG in a matter of fact that was more lack of the common thinking.....especially when your "avatar" acts strange(as they called in CIG)only after certain position ALWAYS and on every PC that you trying.C'mon that's clearly not a bug or any kind of error and if you need 3 DAYS to figure that out....hmmm....

I will guess wild and said that maybe is not on the exact 0 due to the some visual "tweaks" maybe water just look a bit better when you put her up on 16..

I will ask you then this:If is not possible to remove water level totally from the CE is that something that we should be concerned about?I mean PU and the VAST of space,freedom to move anywhere....someone will eventually reach that number of -100000 ?
Then again I am almost sure that CIG experts figure how to remove water completely out from the engine...or did they????
[video=youtube;pHI00wdzCIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHI00wdzCIs[/video]

 

[PhanttoM]

Just to add to the discussion, I wonder how the QD implementation in SC differs from linear shift drive (LSD) in I-War 2 (released in 2001), which offered relatively large systems with truly seamless fast travel between points of interest. It was single-player only, though, with LSD disabled in multiplayer, so the development of QD was certainly a bigger challenge.

The LDS drive is more like the Elite's supercruise. You could freefly throughout a system if you simply avoided using the autopilot.

The similarity between LDS and supercruise was the thing that tipped me over into buying in on Elite's Alpha, as I was disappointed with SC's "only in a straight line" approach.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

I'm a space flight sim enthusiast and I own pretty much all of them, what star citizen is currently offering does not meet the minimum standard to compete in the genre. Fan made mods based on the freespace2open project are better and that engine was released in 1999.

If you want to turn really quickly in ED the trick is maneuvering thrusters and FA off.

Stopped reading there as it proves that you do not really know what you are talking about. Yes, I know how to use flight assist off. No, it does not increase the turn rate. What it does is that your ships continues to travel into the same direction with its current velocity, unless you start manually accelerating into another direction.

While flight assist off mode is certainly helpful it does NOT increase the turn rate.

Sorry, your statements are ludicrous. I doubt that you even play Elite Dangerous or have flown anything bigger then a Viper lll.

 

[ianw]

The LDS drive

Psychedelics confirmed!

https://youtu.be/pgHxFNFWlZc?t=10

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Stopped reading there as it proves that you do not really know what you are talking about. Yes, I know how to use flight assist off. No, it does not increase the turn rate. What it does is that your ships continues to travel into the same direction with its current velocity, unless you start manually accelerating into another direction.

While flight assist off mode is certainly helpful it does NOT increase the turn rate.

Sorry, your statements are ludicrous. I doubt that you even play Elite Dangerous or have flown anything bigger then a Viper lll.

You certainly can get someone back in your sights quicker using thrusters & FA off - maybe you should have a word with this guy.

https://youtu.be/HhCXvyI3HSA?t=56

 

[VidarSnipes]

Psychedelics confirmed!

It was my mistake, though, I really should have checked I-War's encyclopedia before writing that post... It should be LDS, Linear Displacement System. Now that game had some interesing technology in the lore, with fast drives sharing the tech with shield system, for example.

 

[Karhu Major]

Well I never used CE but just my common sense was telling me that this was ridicules....I am glad that someone that is using CE can confirm this absurdity and lack of knowledge inside of the CIG in a matter of fact that was more lack of the common thinking.....especially when your "avatar" acts strange(as they called in CIG)only after certain position ALWAYS and on every PC that you trying.C'mon that's clearly not a bug or any kind of error and if you need 3 DAYS to figure that out....hmmm....

I will ask you then this:If is not possible to remove water level totally from the CE is that something that we should be concerned about?I mean PU and the VAST of space,freedom to move anywhere....someone will eventually reach that number of -100000 ?
Then again I am almost sure that CIG experts figure how to remove water completely out from the engine...or did they????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHI00wdzCIs

I think they will be okay. After all wasn't Cry Engine originally limited to 8km x 8km maps? CIG managed to up that quite a bit, I'm sure they will figure out how to fix this. Laughing at "obvious" bugs and bashing devs for not noticing it earlier is pretty low tbh. I dare to say every software dev ever has, at one point in their career, spent an embarrassingly long time on a nasty bug that turned out to be super simple to fix.

 

[bitstorm]

The Imperial Cutter was advertised as a warship, but the actual game play forces it into a heavily shielded trader role. The bays on the side are also too small for any small fighter ship.

So essentially the Cutter and Corvette would have to be at least partially re-designed. Both ship model and gameplay wise.

You're saying a ship launched fighter would be launched from the Cutter nacelles??

Why not just use the large circular panel which just happens to be the right size for a ship launched fighter? I mean the size is just big enough it almost looks like it was designed for it. [blah]

Also why would you have to redesign the Corvette? There's a big panel right underneath which by sheer coincidence almost looks made for the purpose!

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I dare to say every software dev ever has, at one point in their career, spent an embarrassingly long time on a nasty bug that turned out to be super simple to fix.

I agree,except that this was not a BUG!

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

You're saying a ship launched fighter would be launched from the Cutter nacelles??

Why not just use the large circular panel which just happens to be the right size for a ship launched fighter? I mean the size is just big enough it almost looks like it was designed for it. [blah]

Also why would you have to redesign the Corvette? There's a big panel right underneath which by sheer coincidence almost looks made for the purpose!

https://drive.google.com/uc?view=export&id=0B8ck-2ELKOuLam1CX1dsdi1sVE0

A few captures for illustration, may not be an exhaustive list:

http://imgur.com/a/GiNUq

 

[ianw]

You're saying a ship launched fighter would be launched from the Cutter nacelles??

Why not just use the large circular panel which just happens to be the right size for a ship launched fighter? I mean the size is just big enough it almost looks like it was designed for it. [blah]

Also why would you have to redesign the Corvette? There's a big panel right underneath which by sheer coincidence almost looks made for the purpose!

https://drive.google.com/uc?view=export&id=0B8ck-2ELKOuLam1CX1dsdi1sVE0

They did say they had already designed the ships with future features in mind such as space legs and launching fighters and so forth.

But of course they could have been lying to us all the time to get us to part with real cash for ships that don't exist yet!

(no, hang on - that's not FD selling ships come to think of it - it's that other outfit..)