Discuss the AI here!

[Dimensions]

I don't mind harder npcs, but where is the limit. For me it is when I fight big ships that are supposed to be far less agile than I am, like an Anaconda or Dropship that can out turn me with FA off perfectly every time. They also have the same annoying jousting routine they do all the time. It is as irritating as the previous constantly fleeing npcs once there shields were down. Routine: head on fight, they FA off and face you before you have them in your sights and then chaff, head on, FA off, chaff, then again and again.

I don't think it is realistic or fun that a npc ship can perform every manoeuvre absolutely perfectly and time their shots perfectly, while constantly stripping your shields with modded weapons. They can do all of this in a ship that is suppose to turn like a cow in the middle of a dense asteroid field without clipping anything. I'm guessing about 1-5% of cmdrs might be close to that skill level, but I've never met them.

 

[Novaspear]

I voted "just right" but wanted to comment that I am having trouble managing the constant barrage of missiles thrown at me by the NPCs. The NPCs are not always doing this for every encounter, but when this does occur it is a bit difficult to manage. I have tried using the ECM module but the sheer number of missiles launched makes it moot. Any suggestions - anyone had any better luck/strategy countering this?

 

[Madriax]

i have some counters. complaint one: solo players like me are now double deincentivised to try open. its not just the pker ganker commanders in open now its the npcs as well. solo is less fun for some because now we have npc griefers killing the players for no in game reason other than they are players.

cpmplaint 2: i no longer play so will not comment except to say from what i have read they get even more problems with allies standing by while rival factions swarm them for example.

complaint 3: from solo only perspective - i never combat logged to avoid damage. i had some close shaves when i miscalculated when to fight or run - both were anacondas - in 2.0 and one was down to 4% canopy but i killed it and repaired canopy and carried on. so coming from the perspective that while i like the better AI, the repair costs are much more and thus not making money, plus the possibly bugged/possibly intended auroPAC and machinerailguns, the net result of 'get players used to losing their ships' is... players like me dont even run the game any more let alone launch the ship. newbies have left because of constant high level npc interdictions meaning they couldnt earn money to upgrade modules let alone buy other ships. lots of us including me are waiting for more news on the instakill weapons before deciding to either wait for the patch (if bug) and then try the new AI again, or quit playing for good (if intended). and people have joined the forum purely in horror at some of the things which happened to them only to be faced with a suddenly toxic attitude from others... shouted down and insulted. i really hadnt expected that.


you had 146 million rebuys costs. its just a part of the game to you. thanks for being so honest and please dont take this for an insult.

you had more than 146 million to get back your ship multiple times. its a throwaway. i have 6 million and a half built ship i may need to sell for extra money instead of play the combat side and enjoy. my rebuy is 1,5 million. my ship isnt disposable to me. if there is a real solution to get players used to losing their ships to avoid combat logging, its remove any rebuy cost and perhaps also the loss of cargo. then people with 140 million less than you can spend on rebuys and still be happy can afford to leave the station and not worry about the grind from sidewinder happening again.

may your rebuys be rare commander.

+ rep

This is the thing players are forgetting in all the mess about NPC AI - it's not so much the AI that is at fault, though it seems like it is very buggy.

It's the constant drain on income in repairs and insurance without the ability to get the CR back in through trading, missions etc due to the interdictions.

It's fine for those willing to sink a few hundred million into the learning curve, but many (I'd say the vast majority) of players simply do not have the CR funds to play the game anymore - all their (our) hard- (or easy-) earned CR which took months to accumulate is destroyed in a matter of days.

It's not about solo, open, PvE or PvP - fundamentally, it all comes down to the economics of actually being able to afford the CR to play, regardless of skill level or rank.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

no i think we have established its not the combat AI thats the issue here its to do with the kinds of weapons and mods they can get that kill in seconds and the constant interdiction spam, that some seem to have or that you get in random sessions of play. the normal fights i had were tougher but more fun although i need to run a bit more often and its costing me more in repairs than bounties and trade cover now.

The actual flying and maneuvering is not really the issue here. It is the apparently bugged weapon systems, and engineered mod the AI is using. While they supposedly use pip management, with limited power, the way they are using the new weapons shows that is simply not the case. They supposedly are subject to the same heat constraints players are, but they way they are using the new weapons shows that is simply not the case. Let's hope it is a bug.

From a flight mechanics standpoint, the new AI is great but add in the other new aspects of the AI, and the improved flight abilities are absolutely pointless because you don't live long enough to watch it fly.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I voted "just right" but wanted to comment that I am having trouble managing the constant barrage of missiles thrown at me by the NPCs. The NPCs are not always doing this for every encounter, but when this does occur it is a bit difficult to manage. I have tried using the ECM module but the sheer number of missiles launched makes it moot. Any suggestions - anyone had any better luck/strategy countering this?

some people say point defence is a must. i dont know i havent got ecm or point defence.

 

[Minoo Minou]

+ rep

This is the thing players are forgetting in all the mess about NPC AI - it's not so much the AI that is at fault, though it seems like it is very buggy.

It's the constant drain on income in repairs and insurance without the ability to get the CR back in through trading etc.

It's fine for those willing to sink a few hundred million into the learning curve, but many (I'd say the vast majority) of players simply do not have the CR funds to play the game anymore.

It's not about solo, open, PvE or PvP - fundamentally, it all comes down to the economics of actually being able to afford the CR to play, regardless of skill level or rank.

Somebody needs to take a break... I made a couple missions since thursday, no destruction, no repairs (maybe one time going too fast in OC).

Are you serious with this? It's... crazy.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

+ rep

This is the thing players are forgetting in all the mess about NPC AI - it's not so much the AI that is at fault, though it seems like it is very buggy.

It's the constant drain on income in repairs and insurance without the ability to get the CR back in through trading, missions etc due to the interdictions.

It's fine for those willing to sink a few hundred million into the learning curve, but many (I'd say the vast majority) of players simply do not have the CR funds to play the game anymore - all their (our) hard- (or easy-) earned CR which took months to accumulate is destroyed in a matter of days.

It's not about solo, open, PvE or PvP - fundamentally, it all comes down to the economics of actually being able to afford the CR to play, regardless of skill level or rank.

i wish i could have come close to putting it as clearly as you.

would like to point out also my responses were to speculation by another player rather than that player saying anything from frontier sources. Ant_Solo was just wildly speculating and i said how it was for me in response.

 

[Novaspear]

some people say point defence is a must. i dont know i havent got ecm or point defence.

Yes, I have both point defense and ECM - still seems like I'm getting hit a lot.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Somebody needs to take a break... I made a couple missions since thursday, no destruction, no repairs (maybe one time going too fast in OC).

Are you serious with this? It's... crazy.

you havent met the interdiction spam yet even. you certainly havent met a autoPAC or machineRail npc yet.

 

[Madriax]

Somebody needs to take a break... I made a couple missions since thursday, no destruction, no repairs (maybe one time going too fast in OC).

Are you serious with this? It's... crazy.

Is going from 30 mill CR in the bank to less than 10 mill in 3 hours crazy? Yes!

I'm exploring atm, but a friend I was on with the other night had this happen due to interdictions while trading.

There are arguments to make about loadouts etc, but all he was doing was the same trade route pre 2.1

When this kind of CR drain happens to players - the vast majority of which do not have millions to throw away - I can see why they don't want to play!

 

[Krinaman]

Obviously, to each their own. Arguing over who's "right" is pointless because what works for person A doesn't work for person B.

For me personally, this was my relax, watch a movie, and grind game. For the most part space trucking and picking up cargo missions never using the exploits to get ranks or money. Now every cargo mission means getting jumped by an Anaconda sporting all kinds of modded systems. Pick up 3 or 4 bring back missions along with 3 or 4 deliver missions like I normally do and I am getting jumped by an Anaconda after every single jump. Literally, the moment I enter a system. The cost of insurance makes risking my ship a non-starter (remember I don't do any of the credit "exploits") a every death takes me 10ish??? hours to regain the money I spent on insurance. Yes, I'm fairly certain I can successfully get away from them every time but it isn't any fun constantly running for my life. Since I play games to have fun and this game is no longer any fun I will play something else until something changes. YMMV

 

[stooger]

I voted "just right" but wanted to comment that I am having trouble managing the constant barrage of missiles thrown at me by the NPCs. The NPCs are not always doing this for every encounter, but when this does occur is a bit difficult to manage. I have tried using the ECM module but the sheer number of missiles launched makes it moot. Any suggestions - anyone had any better luck/strategy countering this?

IIRC MoM said that npcs aren't perfect. They have delays in pip management and not 100% perfect aim. Lesser ranks doesn't do pips at all. If something is unbalanced it's engeneers mods (or bugged mods like machinegun PA on npcs).

 

[Seonid]

The scan data comes in: Deadly Anaconda.

Or hit your bind for Highest Threat and it instantly targets the interdicting ship, so you can set the exact initial pips & actions that you want to support the decision you are making as you submit?

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

There is 9000 players in the Bountyhunt CG alone. Where is the other 8994 cases that would support your "completely bugged" claim?

Tune down the outrage a bit, please. It does not help your case.

Most people don't take videos, fewer are on the forum, even fewer bother to post. The video evidence is quite compelling that the bugs exist. Sure, it will not hit all 9000 players playing the CG. But it will certainly have hit more than six.

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I was actually agreeing with you until



What a load of hogwash, sorry mate you lost it right there, its not unplayable in any way at all.

I played the game all the time since 2.1 release and there were no issues other than one, and I reported that one.

I will file you under TROLL poster, as this is not serious at all and I for one are done taking you serious.

LMAO!

You do realize that your post comes across just as much as a troll post as the post you referred to?

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Somebody needs to take a break... I made a couple missions since thursday, no destruction, no repairs (maybe one time going too fast in OC).

Are you serious with this? It's... crazy.

I have been flying data delivery and courier missions since 2.1 dropped, keeping my cargo hold empty. I fly a Viper MKIV, class 4 bi weaves, shield booster, military bulkheads, class 4 hull reinforcement, class A thrusters, top boost speed of 370. Insurance rebuy of just under 400k. I have been instakilled twice now upon interdiction. Yes, I submitted for the fast cool down, yes, I use FA off to regain control faster. Yes, I was dead well before my 3A sensors could lock onto my attacker. Yes, I was dead well before the 15 second FSD cooldown so I could High Wake out...

Fortunately, I have about 30 million in the bank, but at this rate, it's a financial pit, a slow bleed, and not a chance I'm going to fly anything more expensive.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I voted "just right" but wanted to comment that I am having trouble managing the constant barrage of missiles thrown at me by the NPCs. The NPCs are not always doing this for every encounter, but when this does occur it is a bit difficult to manage. I have tried using the ECM module but the sheer number of missiles launched makes it moot. Any suggestions - anyone had any better luck/strategy countering this?

Two or three PDT should take care of most missiles.

 

[Ant_Solo]

solo players like me are now double deincentivised to try open.

Maybe but, without wanting to be insulting, it is still very soon after the changes. It might be that some players are so upset that they stop playing, and that would be sad, but those that are left and start now hopefully would become able to deal with the NPCs and that conditioning would make them well prepared for playing in open which some players might chose to do. Or not, that is their choice.

and people have joined the forum purely in horror at some of the things which happened to them only to be faced with a suddenly toxic attitude from others... shouted down and insulted. i really hadnt expected that.

I'm have no interest in shouting or insulting anyone, I see the toxicity in this thread from both sides. Tbh I was reluctant to post given how it is going but thought I would try. I was very careful with the words I chose as well.

you had more than 146 million to get back your ship multiple times. its a throwaway.

I have paid the insurance throughout my time in Elite at every stage, it never bothered me even when I didn't have many credits.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i been watching QA responses in bugs. so far responded in the shield made of wood thread, and so far to the no robigo mission board (this is by design apparently is the response). nothing in the npc ignore weapon fire rates thread. im starting to worry a bit they may say working as intended. so i better go and play a game (not elite sadly) before i read into that something which isnt true. its too early for me to be thinking that.

 

[soma]

I have been flying data delivery and courier missions since 2.1 dropped, keeping my cargo hold empty. I fly a Viper MKIV, class 4 bi weaves, shield booster, military bulkheads, class 4 hull reinforcement, class A thrusters, top boost speed of 370. Insurance rebuy of just under 400k. I have been instakilled twice now upon interdiction. Yes, I submitted for the fast cool down, yes, I use FA off to regain control faster. Yes, I was dead well before my 3A sensors could lock onto my attacker. Yes, I was dead well before the 15 second FSD cooldown so I could High Wake out...

Fortunately, I have about 30 million in the bank, but at this rate, it's a financial pit, a slow bleed, and not a chance I'm going to fly anything more expensive.

Honestly, this sounds like a bug. If you have it on video I think it would be a good idea to open a ticket.

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

It is of course vaguely possible that some of the match making servers did not have the mayhem setting removed and others did. That might explain why some are getting only elite killers and others are not.

Just a thought and it does seem that people are having a difference of experience with 2.1

That is an interesting theory, I hope and expect that Frontier will look into that. I for one ("Dangerous") have been interdicted by nothing but Elite NPCs since the 2.1 launch (about 20 interdictions in total, so unlikely to be just RNG). In other situations (RES, Beacon, USS etc) there is the usual mix of NPC classes). I have not been destroyed so far, but with the current issues I simply do a Brave Sir Robin.