Discuss the AI here!
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
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If we're going to use that then there should be an additional category for "Needs some tweaking!" which I think would be a good usage of "other" which would add another (potentially) 6% of the votes to the opposition! That would swing it from 46.75 vs 46.75 to 53.24!
At the moment, aside from the "I don't know!" random category, it's split
936 vs 936!
For me, it's just right, targets are more challenging, but killable, Elite ranked anything now is much more of a threat, that said, I'm in an A grade combat Anaconda..
So the AI combat skills are fine, but it's decision making still isn't great, still got Sideys engaging my Anaconda, not soo smart.
So the AI combat skills are fine, but it's decision making still isn't great, still got Sideys engaging my Anaconda, not soo smart.
Aye I raised some concerns over the decision making.
Have you encountered the pirates which (still) decide that limpets are worth firing thousands of credits of rockets at?
The bugged weapons are a problem, but the AI combat itself is a breath of fresh air.
So?
I've heard 1200 times I'm a "coward for playing in solo, where open is so awesome".
Now solo is so dangerous, cause you can't wing up against the murder hobo NPC ganksquad. And I'm still here.
Time to stock up on sunscreen.
(Pro tip 209: if your other ships can't handle the heat near a star, switch to a Diamondback Explorer - that thing can literally charge it's Friendship drive while in the corona of a stat)
Problem is, the more poll options that are available simply dilute the results even further and that's also not even scratching the surface of the psychological effects of question phrasing. It's no accident that organisations pay professional polling companies to produce a poll that produces the required result that was paid for.
I was looking at that for my recent trip to the Trifid Nebula, but I decided the Conda was too awesome to skip out on, even if it would have saved me 10% hull damage there and back from when I decided to get drunk and go on a magical adventure through the stars.
Bad idea, hull is best at 100%.
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Problem is, the more poll options that are available simply dilute the results even further and that's also not even scratching the surface of the psychological effects of question phrasing. It's no accident that organisations pay professional polling companies to produce a poll that produces the required result that was paid for.
Worst case scenario just say the pollbase are dumb and go against them!
"No fun" kind of hits the nail on the head for the new update. I'm an experienced pilot rocking an FDL with FA Off and can butcher just about anything.
What's really telling is I can still kick NPC butt, but I am not enjoying it. When I first jumped in to the new AI, the first four enemies I fought hi-waked out at 40% health with loops, chaff, boost and other countermeasures. Even being able to plant me C4 PA shots on them every time during escape alongside a stream of bullets and lazors, I only finished one off - a vulture (thank the ED gods for the vulture's poor speed). At the end of the session, I felt the whole affair just wasn't enjoyable. And it doesn't matter how challenging or repetitive a game is, if it isn't enjoyable, why play?
Solo BHing aside, I can't really see any scaling across ranks in here. Being interdicted by a wing of vipers of around medium combat rank showed that although in weaker ships and though they fell fairly quick, it only appeared to be the loadout that was making a difference to them; the manouevres I saw them employing were very similar to the deadly enemies I had been punching holes in. I have no idea in hell how newer players-especially KBAM users-are going to integrate into this game.
Which no-one wants, because complaints aside...we all love ED, and would love to see the player base grow and the game actually be enjoyable without wings. I've always campaigned for making wings more necessary, but right now to make money/enjoy BHing even in the lower intensity areas you NEED the wing unless you have a strong ship, good flying experience and head off to a low intensity RES or something.
Edit: Also...cops in the HazRes? What? How non-hazardous is that???
What's really telling is I can still kick NPC butt, but I am not enjoying it. When I first jumped in to the new AI, the first four enemies I fought hi-waked out at 40% health with loops, chaff, boost and other countermeasures. Even being able to plant me C4 PA shots on them every time during escape alongside a stream of bullets and lazors, I only finished one off - a vulture (thank the ED gods for the vulture's poor speed). At the end of the session, I felt the whole affair just wasn't enjoyable. And it doesn't matter how challenging or repetitive a game is, if it isn't enjoyable, why play?
Solo BHing aside, I can't really see any scaling across ranks in here. Being interdicted by a wing of vipers of around medium combat rank showed that although in weaker ships and though they fell fairly quick, it only appeared to be the loadout that was making a difference to them; the manouevres I saw them employing were very similar to the deadly enemies I had been punching holes in. I have no idea in hell how newer players-especially KBAM users-are going to integrate into this game.
Which no-one wants, because complaints aside...we all love ED, and would love to see the player base grow and the game actually be enjoyable without wings. I've always campaigned for making wings more necessary, but right now to make money/enjoy BHing even in the lower intensity areas you NEED the wing unless you have a strong ship, good flying experience and head off to a low intensity RES or something.
Edit: Also...cops in the HazRes? What? How non-hazardous is that???
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AI - The only part of the game that got better for me.
Had to sell my joystick a month ago. The sea be a harsh mistress to KBAM users.
Back to the topic of the "AI" .. that has been "ninja buffed" .. errrr... " "ninja"-fixed some of the "weird behaviour"" on the weekend of the 5./6th of may: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=248192&highlight=ninja+buff
Not quite to current levels of sneakyness, but you had 3 weeks to get used to the new one.
Should have made that poll back then.
To quote myself:
"Told ya so" .. 3 weeks ago. In an unedited post, despite my usual habit of editing everything 100x
Not quite to current levels of sneakyness, but you had 3 weeks to get used to the new one.
Should have made that poll back then.
To quote myself:
"Told ya so" .. 3 weeks ago. In an unedited post, despite my usual habit of editing everything 100x
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Same situation here. A-rated "multi-purpose" Python and I can't even fight off random pirate interdictions (who mysteriously attack me despite no mission, cargo, or Powerplay being involved whatsoever).
This current status of the AI makes me want to not play the game, flat-out. I shouldn't need to min/max my loadout and on top of that modify everything to the maximum via Engineers, just to have some self-security against random pirates while trotting about trying to introduce myself to Engineers & map out systems I'd been writing down all this time, waiting for the ability to scan nav beacons for system data. My own ability, highest-class shields, and full weapon loadout should be enough for those pirates.
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Like I just mentioned in another thread, currently there are bugs with rare NPC loadouts having weapon performance that they shouldn't have, and it seems many people are not able to make the distinction between "AI difficulty" and "Bugs that cause anomalous performance in rare cases".
Until such bugs are addressed, frankly polls or any real discussion about if the AI is fine or not is going to be heavily thrown off by said people who can't make the distinction between fringe case bugs and general performance... you'll just get a whole load of knee jerk reactions from people who have a bad experience or see examples of the rare example bugs and apply such things to the entire scope of the current situation and treat bugs as the entire experience. Where you have people either not running into the bugs or are making the distinction between the bugged examples and the general normal examples that aren't bugged giving feedback on how things feel to them in general.
Personally I'd guess that 80% of the "Too hard" or "The game needs knee jerk reinventions of core systems" posters at the moment are all feeding back on bugs, not the actual state of those systems outside of the bugs.
Until such bugs are addressed, frankly polls or any real discussion about if the AI is fine or not is going to be heavily thrown off by said people who can't make the distinction between fringe case bugs and general performance... you'll just get a whole load of knee jerk reactions from people who have a bad experience or see examples of the rare example bugs and apply such things to the entire scope of the current situation and treat bugs as the entire experience. Where you have people either not running into the bugs or are making the distinction between the bugged examples and the general normal examples that aren't bugged giving feedback on how things feel to them in general.
Personally I'd guess that 80% of the "Too hard" or "The game needs knee jerk reinventions of core systems" posters at the moment are all feeding back on bugs, not the actual state of those systems outside of the bugs.
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If they're "anomalous" circumstances then a few fights should be enough to gauge the new AI, preferably in a couple of different situations. If you're posting here after a single fight, then you probably shouldn't be posting at all
Edit: taking into account your edit, I'd say the majority of people that think the new AI is balanced are taking this from a veteran/experienced point of view, and haven't considered how this all works for newer/less experienced/less combat oriented players, some of which might still be using KBAM. Can't see how anyone would think this is a balanced learning curve now. The Deadly/Elite NPCs are probably where they need to be, but the low-mid NPCs certainly aren't.
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Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
If they're "anomalous" circumstances then a few fights should be enough to gauge the new AI, preferably in a couple of different situations. If you're posting here after a single fight, then you probably shouldn't be posting at all
Indeed, personally I've run many dozens of fights against higher rated NPCs since 2.1 went live (not going to include Beta experiences into it) and not run into the bugged performance loadouts, and have found NPC difficulty is just about right in my book... but if I'd fired up 2.1 and got jumped by NPC with the problematic loadouts that aren't working properly that wiped me out in 3 seconds, that would have heavily biased my future opinions on anything else to do with the subject. It wouldn't matter how many people said "It was fine" if my initial impressions on the new changes would have been me getting killed in 3 seconds.
At the end of the day, emotions drive things more than rationality... if you know you got killed in 3 seconds then that would seem to be something Frontier need to fix, and if someone asked you "Do you think the new AI changes are fine?" you'd give a firm 'No' regardless to the distinction between what is a bug in the new changes, and what are the experiences of the wider working as intended examples. You died in 3 seconds, so the new AI changes are bad.
And that's all many would probably care about "I died unfairly. The changes are bad and need to be made easier". Shades of grey and making rational distinctions are a whole lot less likely once that has set in.
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