Engineers Engineer overhaul wishlist

[Mephane]

Yeah, the thing has been live for a week and here's already the overhaul threads. Well, actually, not many of these points are new, just compiled into a single place. Anyway, here is how I would wish engineers to be overhauled:

1. Cut down on the number of materials/data. Just "Focus Crystal", not "Worn", "Refined" etc. variations - this alone should make the number much more manageable.
2. Material/data storage space calculated per material. Not 600 total physical / 200 total data, but 600/200 per type. Possibly the limit could then even be reduced back to 300/100 again. Having to throw out one to make space for another is just frustrating every time.
3. Each material/data has at least 2 distinctly different sources. If Carbon comes from shooting rocks on a planet, it also comes from mining asteroids. If Shiny Electric Gadget comes from destroying skimmers, it also comes from destroying spaceships.
4. Wreckage sites on the ground and in space can yield any type of material or data. If none of the options to get a certain material appeals to you, you can always at least look for wrecks in USS and on the ground instead.
5. Stats are still RNG because FD stand firm on this, but instead of overwriting your previous mod, any new roll enhances it, and the RNG determines by how much, with the smallest increment a full %; the worst result would always be a delta of +1% on stats that you want to go up (e.g. FSD range) and -1% on stats you want to go down (e.g. mass). You still could have lucky rolls that are instantly great, but with patience you will always move towards the theoretical optimum of the modificiation.
6. Experimentals are completely decoupled and applied seperately, with no RNG and a fixed cost. (This cost may still include the planned "favour".) All engineers that do weapons can apply all relevant experimental types, but only on the types of weapons they modify with regular upgrades (e.g. Tod McQuinn won't craft you an experimental on a laser, even if the same effect exists for multi-cannons which he works with).
7. No upgrades, regular or experimental, cost any commodities. We shouldn't ask a Viper to drop a module for a small cargo rack in order to be able to do 2 rolls before it has to go fetch new commodities. Also having a cargo rack in the slot prevents you from having a module there to be upgraded. Commodities to unlock an engineer in the first place are fine, as you don't need to fly the ship-to-be-upgraded to deliver these.
8. Let us mark materials/data as "favourite". These will then show up at the top of the list in the inventory, and show up in blue instead of white everywhere in the game. This way, we can easily check on the materials/data most important to our plans, and immediately see which ones of the materials in the vicinity is among them.
9. Different engineers, same blueprint - require different materials. The materials would be more related to what the engineer does - Tod McQuinn shouldn't ask for stuff you get by killing the police, foir example, while the Dweller totally would. This also requires that any upgrade must exist (at all grades, not just the lowest ones) in at least 2 different places.

Below are suggestions from other posters. Please note I have omitted suggestions not related to the engineers and the looting/crafting process. Some good ones here (I particular like the idea of purchasing or renting a system-wide salvage permit), but that should be out of scope for this thread.

• Bias materials from mission rewards to favour those needed in pinned blueprints. (I would add that if #8 is implemented, better bias it towards the favourites instead of pinned blueprints.)
• Some form of persistent storage for commodities and materials to free up space to collect more and keep items for later use.
• Some form of persistent storage for modules and weapons so that we can swap between different equipment without losing upgrades or using other ships as a makeshift storage (with risk of losing them if disconnected at the wrong moment). This is afaik already being worked on by FD.
• Allow pinning of multiple blueprints for each engineer. (I would add: why not also let us view all their blueprints remotely anyway?)
• Option to sort materials/data not just by name, but also by count.
• Plotting route to engineer base directly from engineers overview screen without the need to open the galaxy map first.
• When opening the details of a piece of material/data, also show the engineer blueprints it is used in where it now only shows the synthesis blueprints.
• Let Detailed Surface Scanner reveal the materials and their abundance that can be found on a planet.
• Let players trade materials with each other. One pilot's surplus is another one's dire need.
• Remove frameshift wake scanning as a method to get data used in crafting. (My suggestion: yield this data instead of shield data when doing normal scans on ships in supercruise.)

 

[Muetdhiver]

Good stuff, +1.

I would add : 8. mission material rewards biased toward pined blueprints materials

 

[Mephane]

Good stuff, +1.

I would add : 8. mission material rewards biased toward pined blueprints materials

In general missions shouldn't be the prime source for any material, which is part of the intention of point #3. If a material is tied to missions as the source, it should have a reliable alternative. Maybe with that it is not even needed to change anything regarding materials as mission rewards.

 

[digitalscream]

Yeah, the thing has been live for a week and here's already the overhaul threads. Well, actually, not many of these points are new, just compiled into a single place. Anyway, here is how I would wish engineers to be overhauled:

1. Cut down on the number of materials/data. Just "Focus Crystal", not "Worn", "Refined" etc. variations - this alone should make the number much more manageable.
2. Material/data storage space calculated per material. Not 600 total physical / 200 total data, but 600/200 per type. Possibly the limit could then even be reduced back to 300/100 again. Having to throw out one to make space for another is just frustrating every time.
3. Each material/data has at least 2 distinctly different sources. If Carbon comes from shooting rocks on a planet, it also comes from mining asteroids. If Shiny Electric Gadget comes from destroying skimmers, it also comes from destroying spaceships.
4. Wreckage sites on the ground and in space can yield any type of material or data. If none of the options to get a certain material appeals to you, you can always at least look for wrecks in USS and on the ground instead.
5. Stats are still RNG because FD stand firm on this, but instead of overwriting your previous mod, any new roll enhances it, and the RNG determines by how much, with the smallest increment a full %; the worst result would always be a delta of +1% on stats that you want to go up (e.g. FSD range) and -1% on stats you want to go down (e.g. mass). You still could have lucky rolls that are instantly great, but with patience you will always move towards the theoretical optimum of the modificiation.
6. Experimentals are completely decoupled and applied seperately, with no RNG and a fixed cost. (This cost may still include the planned "favour".) All engineers that do weapons can apply all relevant experimental types, but only on the types of weapons they modify with regular upgrades (e.g. Tod McQuinn won't craft you an experimental on a laser, even if the same effect exists for multi-cannons which he works with).
7. No upgrades, regular or experimental, cost any commodities. We shouldn't ask a Viper to drop a module for a small cargo rack in order to be able to do 2 rolls before it has to go fetch new commodities. Also having a cargo rack in the slot prevents you from having a module there to be upgraded. Commodities to unlock an engineer in the first place are fine, as you don't need to fly the ship-to-be-upgraded to deliver these.

1 - If you look at the blueprints, the higher-grade mods actually require higher-grade versions of the commodity (eg exquisite focus crystals for grade 5 shield booster mods). Viewed from that perspective, it makes sense...however, I don't disagree because even with absolutely even distribution, materials would still be relatively rare.

2 - Or perhaps calculated per class? Particularly for data (eg firmware/wake scans/etc).

3 - They already do - two (and sometimes 3) sources for everything. Missions are a source for everything. Most materials can be found in signal sources, and the mineral-type materials are all found on planet surfaces. Commodities required by blueprints are often found in markets in a specific part of the galaxy (eg magnetic emitter coils in Industrial markets near Leesti).

4 - Is this not already true? Aside from wake and shield scans, obviously, because they need an active shield or wake.

5 - Something bugs me about this, but I can't quite figure out what. Maybe it'll occur to me later.

6 - Not sure I agree with the "no RNG" bit, because then the meta will take over and everybody will have the same, most powerful special mod. Particularly in PvP, it actually makes it more exciting when you have no idea what you have to defend against.

7 - Agreed because I hate my neutered-Vulture loadout with cargo, but being able to source bits for blueprints from specific markets is quite a good idea IMO. A compromise might be to be able to buy some materials from markets in very localised parts of the galaxy, the way you can with some (probably all) of the blueprint commodities.

 

[Rubellen]

Yeah, the thing has been live for a week and here's already the overhaul threads. Well, actually, not many of these points are new, just compiled into a single place. Anyway, here is how I would wish engineers to be overhauled:

1. Cut down on the number of materials/data. Just "Focus Crystal", not "Worn", "Refined" etc. variations - this alone should make the number much more manageable.
2. Material/data storage space calculated per material. Not 600 total physical / 200 total data, but 600/200 per type. Possibly the limit could then even be reduced back to 300/100 again. Having to throw out one to make space for another is just frustrating every time.
3. Each material/data has at least 2 distinctly different sources. If Carbon comes from shooting rocks on a planet, it also comes from mining asteroids. If Shiny Electric Gadget comes from destroying skimmers, it also comes from destroying spaceships.
4. Wreckage sites on the ground and in space can yield any type of material or data. If none of the options to get a certain material appeals to you, you can always at least look for wrecks in USS and on the ground instead.
5. Stats are still RNG because FD stand firm on this, but instead of overwriting your previous mod, any new roll enhances it, and the RNG determines by how much, with the smallest increment a full %; the worst result would always be a delta of +1% on stats that you want to go up (e.g. FSD range) and -1% on stats you want to go down (e.g. mass). You still could have lucky rolls that are instantly great, but with patience you will always move towards the theoretical optimum of the modificiation.
6. Experimentals are completely decoupled and applied seperately, with no RNG and a fixed cost. (This cost may still include the planned "favour".) All engineers that do weapons can apply all relevant experimental types, but only on the types of weapons they modify with regular upgrades (e.g. Tod McQuinn won't craft you an experimental on a laser, even if the same effect exists for multi-cannons which he works with).
7. No upgrades, regular or experimental, cost any commodities. We shouldn't ask a Viper to drop a module for a small cargo rack in order to be able to do 2 rolls before it has to go fetch new commodities. Also having a cargo rack in the slot prevents you from having a module there to be upgraded. Commodities to unlock an engineer in the first place are fine, as you don't need to fly the ship-to-be-upgraded to deliver these.

+1. Mephane for president (of FD)

 

[Count]

RARES!!! - Something has happened with the BGS that has knocked about 40% of the Rares off the market!

Remove this new volatility of Rares as it is killing that part of the game! It was already a niche element, and this is going to seriously endanger it altogether.

 

[Derath]

I like most of your ideas Mephane as usual, but I don't think most of them are necessary, i'd be fine with all the different ranks of focus crystals for example if I wasn't limited to 600 total without knowing what I need or what I don't so i'd prefer that change in isolation (no cargo limit effectively).

I mean to be completely honest, storage would fix all of my problems with the current system with the exception of the rarity of around 10 of the materials that are way too hard to spot for their tendency to turn up in early recipes not the best ones.

 

[matemaster]

8. Private hangar with storage

 

[digitalscream]

RARES!!! - Something has happened with the BGS that has knocked about 40% of the Rares off the market!

Remove this new volatility of Rares as it is killing that part of the game! It was already a niche element, and this is going to seriously endanger it altogether.

Didn't FD address this with the Soontill Relics? They weren't available for sale because rare commodity production is dampened/halted when a system enters the "war" state. I personally think it's a nice bit of depth in the BGS.

 

[Mephane]

Didn't FD address this with the Soontill Relics? They weren't available for sale because rare commodity production is dampened/halted when a system enters the "war" state. I personally think it's a nice bit of depth in the BGS.

I think they just manually ended the war. I remember that day, when the fix was supposed to be live I went there, found the rares available, but also no war in the system.

 

[Count]

Didn't FD address this with the Soontill Relics? They weren't available for sale because rare commodity production is dampened/halted when a system enters the "war" state. I personally think it's a nice bit of depth in the BGS.

That mechanic is already in the game - there is a thread that manages the efforts of commanders to reinstate Rares that have gone due to BGS.

But seriously, you think this is good? 40% of Rares gone in one day? People will just give up on Rares, that is too much. This needs to be tweaked. Rares are now Chaotic - far too volatile to be a viable element in the game. How can you plan Rares route if in a weeks time half of the Rares on the route might disappear? It is impossible to manage.

Have you done much with Rares?

 

[digitalscream]

That mechanic is already in the game - there is a thread that manages the efforts of commanders to reinstate Rares that have gone due to BGS.

But seriously, you think this is good? 40% of Rares gone in one day? People will just give up on Rares, that is too much. This needs to be tweaked. Rares are now Chaotic - far too volatile to be a viable element in the game. How can you plan Rares route if in a weeks time half of the Rares on the route might disappear? It is impossible to manage.

Have you done much with Rares?

Yep, I spent all my time shipping rares before I got my Vulture and went combat-oriented. Here's the thing: I always thought that rare items were far too predictable in their availability. The notion of "planning" a rares route seems illogical to me.

Mind you, I can appreciate the fact that since I haven't had anything to do with rares for over a year, my opinion on them is probably neither necessary nor authoritative

 

[Mephane]

Yep, I spent all my time shipping rares before I got my Vulture and went combat-oriented. Here's the thing: I always thought that rare items were far too predictable in their availability. The notion of "planning" a rares route seems illogical to me.

Mind you, I can appreciate the fact that since I haven't had anything to do with rares for over a year, my opinion on them is probably neither necessary nor authoritative

Rares aren't rare in the sense that you won't know whether you get one. They are rare in the sense that they are only produced in a single place, and everyone in the galaxy wants them. They are a rarity everywhere except the source system. And this made perfect sense. Lots of luxury (and even non-luxury) products are only made in specific countries or cities and from there shipped all over the world.

But we digress. The topic was how to improve the engineers.

 

[Thebadmf]

+1 but as others have said, module/cargo storage would also solve most of these issues.

+10 for reducing the number of materials.

 

[CMDR Triklops]

please include in the wishlist the overview

- listing of pinned recipes in the synthesis section of status panel to directly see the status of required materials are met
- allow pinning of more than just one recipe per enginer

furthermore:

- filtering is available in material listing, BUT there is no "sort" possibility to sort them by current amount
- sorting for normal commodities would be welcomed as well

further further more
- navigation bookmarks and route planning accessible without the need to open galaxy map

 

[CMDR Triklops]

and while i am at it:

- display usage of materials, similar to the materials used for synthesis, when clicking on carbon in the material inventory i get the information for what synthesis products it is used, why dont show for what mod updates it is used as well ? could be limited to just the pinned recipes

- did i mention ? pinning of more than one recipe

 

[Mephane]

Another idea:

- Show materials in another color e.g. blue instead of white) if they are part of a pinned blueprint. So you immediately know which are the ones you want to collect.

 

[CMDR Triklops]

if you like the suggestions add them to your wishlist

generally i quite like all the engineers stuff, but since there is always the web browser that gives me the information i want, i have pinned level 1 update but i aim for 2 and 3 updates, so, there is no way to get that level 2 and 3 updates requirements without leaving the game

hence my wish for seeing the status of gathered materials if i am finished with my mod, and the synthesis section already has the synthesis state visible, e.g. how often a synthesis can be applied, because i want to get like 4 or 5 level1 materials to crank the reputation up, but i mainly want to go for level 2 or level 3 .... sounds a bit ridiculous to pin from engineer 1 fsd upgrade level 2, and pin fsd upgrade level 2 from another enginer, and level 3 update from even another more engineer to have all that information accessible in the space ship

 

[CMDR Triklops]

and an overhaul of the consistency is a personal wish of mine:

SHIELD BOOSTER - HEAVY DUTY SHIELD BOOSTER (GRADE 1)
MICRO MATERIAL:2x Germanium [Surface Prospecting, Mining]
MICRO MATERIAL:1x Grid Resistors [Ship Wreck]


SHIELD BOOSTER - HEAVY DUTY SHIELD BOOSTER (GRADE 2)
MICRO MATERIAL:1x Distorted Shield Cycle Recordings [Ship Scanning]
MICRO MATERIAL:2x Hybrid Capacitors [Ship Wreck]
MICRO MATERIAL:2x Niobium [Surface Prospecting, Mining]
COMMODITY:1x CMM Composite [Markets]



-------

my point is, why is level 1 and level2 ingredients so different, none of the level1 ingredient happens to be required for a level 2 update, and this makes understanding or remembering for what particular materials are used even harder

a simple scaling of all level1 ingredients x2 x3 x4 x5 plus one or to additional ingredients would be just fine and more easy to get a grasp on
SHIELD BOOSTER - HEAVY DUTY SHIELD BOOSTER (GRADE 2)

 

[Viking84]

Anyway, here is how I would wish engineers to be overhauled:

Repped, supported, cheered, and pretty much any other encouraging motion I can muster. Please FD, read this! You get to keep your RNG, but we get proper goals to work towards, and we get multiple sources for the materials meaning that those of us who truly despise the rock-hunting mechanic in the SRV don't have to do it.

If I could add one thing it would be that I personally would love to see material collection in space done by a standard-fit limpet system that does not take up any internal space. But this would not be such a big issue if Nr 2. (increased storage) is implemented, as you could do your material hunting in one ship and bountyhunting in something else.

Edit: Lore justification for the standard-fit limpets could be that material fragments are so small they do not require a fully fledged limpet controller system, and the material-limpets would therefore suffer much less wear and tear.