The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[idkmybffjill]

Nope, background simulation is the same as that in ED (as described by CR). There will not be millions of NPC's, CIG will just simulate large numbers, but players will see far far far less.

You're having trouble so I'll make it clear.

While true that the universe will not have millions of active NPCs, the background simulation of the AI will in fact populate the space where players are located. If there's a battle simulated in space and one player happens to QT into it, it'll appear. Whenever players walk into cities, NPCs will populate the cities with a variety of standard jobs you'd expect to see such as janitorial duties, bartending, peacekeeping, medical work, shopkeeping, and even thuggery if you travel down the wrong alley. Each of these standard jobs will have their own set of mini jobs to do. When a bartender isn't serving drinks he'll be cleaning glasses, sweeping, wiping down the bar, etc. All meant to simulate a living, breathing universe.

 

[swfanatic717]

Funny, because CIG tells people not to buy stuff too. It has always been, and always will be, explicitly stated that none of the extra ships are NEEDED for the final game. It is STRESSED that all the ships will be available in-game, for in-game currency. Yes, they hype ship sales when they get a new concept up. But they never use backhanded tactics to force people to buy. People buy because they want to, not because they feel obligated to.

Nice misdirect there, maybe you'd like to highlight the part of my post where I say CIG is part of the problem. You can't because I don't mention anything of the sort.

It's true what CIG's official position is, and that all the legally mandated wording is on their sales pages, but unfortunately the SC fanbase sends a much louder message across a much wider area and demographic. Intentionally or otherwise (since they have no marketing budget), the fanbase is CIG's marketing and sales division, and therein lies the problem.

 

[idkmybffjill]

Nice misdirect there, maybe you'd like to highlight the part of my post where I say CIG is part of the problem. You can't because I don't mention anything of the sort.

It's true what CIG's official position is, and that all the legally mandated wording is on their sales pages, but unfortunately the SC fanbase sends a much louder message across a much wider area and demographic. Intentionally or otherwise (since they have no marketing budget), the fanbase is CIG's marketing and sales division, and therein lies the problem.

Not intended as a misdirect. I mentioned CIG's position because it's the same position that's trickled down to the backers. Go on the reddit and look at the advice given to prospective new citizens. They're told to buy cheap, smaller packages, as the bigger better ships will be available in-game.

 

[ianw]

Really? Come on, here lemme show you how this is a classic Dsmart misdirect. This is exactly what he does for all of his claims and predictions.

The site reports the correct numbers, because the only numbers being reported is the total number of funds, total number of unique accounts created on the RSI site, and total number of ships owned. That's it. CIG has never explicity stated those numbers mean anything else, and that's evidenced by Disco Lando publicly saying what the fleet number means. They're not trying to hide or misrepresent the numbers in any way.

Smarty wants you to believe otherwise, and that's exactly what I meant way back when I said "think for yourselves." Dsmart knows how to use the power of deduction and misdirection to make anyone willing to listen into a believer, much like any faith healer (or fortune teller) con artist.

Why do you and others keep trying to make it about Derek - misdirection?

CIG haven't as far as I'm aware stated anything about the number of backers.

But we all know that it's the number of backers that's a key indicator that people would like to look at - not the number of ships sold or "the fleet". The point is some backers try and present the fleet number as the number of backers and that is what people are arguing about - because that's what gamers do - argue about stats.

It's clear to anyone that's followed this for years that lots of backers have multiple ships - so it's also clear that the fleet numbers are more than the total of backers.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Derek. The idea that an opinion becomes invalid simply because it is shared by the obsession/nemesis of many of the SC backers is laughable.

 

[hairychris]

Nope, background simulation is the same as that in ED (as described by CR). There will not be millions of NPC's, CIG will just simulate large numbers, but players will see far far far less.

Agreed.

This is really the only sensible way to do things. You may have a limited number of major NPC characters who do actions that affect the entire universe (for plot reasons) but the majority of NPCs encountered would be randomly or procedurally (prob random) generated within client or instance depending on single/multiplayer, and look + behave within a set of parameters (prob randomised).

The background sim will affect NPC behaviour, with only limited amount of reverse being true. Example: an unstable system would spawn more pirates than a lawful one but it'll take a heck of a lot of interaction for the system to be pushed to an anarchic one!

Frontier are definitely using this approach. Now, there have been complaints that the ED PU doesn't have as much effect on play as some people would like but that's an implementation issue. Their core BGS seems to be pretty well thought out.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Nooooooooo! Missed post 10,000 as I was reading the thread :/

I do wonder about a narrative of "Hey, here is a concept for a massive, multi-crew Frigate with LTI. It is a limited time offer and we know it is expensive, so please don't think you have to buy it. After all it won't take long at all to earn this in-game for you and your clan to fly..."

 

[hairychris]

You're having trouble so I'll make it clear.

While true that the universe will not have millions of active NPCs, the background simulation of the AI will in fact populate the space where players are located. If there's a battle simulated in space and one player happens to QT into it, it'll appear. Whenever players walk into cities, NPCs will populate the cities with a variety of standard jobs you'd expect to see such as janitorial duties, bartending, peacekeeping, medical work, shopkeeping, and even thuggery if you travel down the wrong alley. Each of these standard jobs will have their own set of mini jobs to do. When a bartender isn't serving drinks he'll be cleaning glasses, sweeping, wiping down the bar, etc. All meant to simulate a living, breathing universe.

Ah, seems like you & 1500 arguing for different ends of the same thing.

The BGS will affect what parameters used when NPCs spawn, but the NPCs themselves are not simulated as part of the BGS. NPCs will have their own AI that affects their behaviour when you meet them.

 

[ianw]

Nooooooooo! Missed post 10,000 as I was reading the thread :/

I do wonder about a narrative of "Hey, here is a concept for a massive, multi-crew Frigate with LTI. It is a limited time offer and we know it is expensive, so please don't think you have to buy it. After all it won't take long at all to earn this in-game for you and your clan to fly..."

Son of a gun - it was mine! (unless something gets deleted) - I'd have made it a bit more special if I'd realised. Apologies to all.

 

[idkmybffjill]

Why do you and others keep trying to make it about Derek - misdirection?

CIG haven't as far as I'm aware stated anything about the number of backers.

But we all know that it's the number of backers that's a key indicator that people would like to look at - not the number of ships sold or "the fleet". The point is some backers try and present the fleet number as the number of backers and that is what people are arguing about - because that's what gamers do - argue about stats.

It's clear to anyone that's followed this for years that lots of backers have multiple ships - so it's also clear that the fleet numbers are more than the total of backers.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Derek. The idea that an opinion becomes invalid simply because it is shared by the obsession/nemesis of many of the SC backers is laughable.

I didn't make it about Derek, I was responding to a post that stated such things proved Derek right. I then demonstrated Derek's common procedure in an attempt to get people to see how he manipulates information to fit his specific narrative and agenda, because again, the post was saying that it lent weight to his claims and I wanted to expose that illusion.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Son of a gun - it was mine! (unless something gets deleted) - I'd have made it a bit more special if I'd realised. Apologies to all.

Your wish.....

 

[bitstorm]

Really? Come on, here lemme show you how this is a classic Dsmart misdirect. This is exactly what he does for all of his claims and predictions.

The site reports the correct numbers, because the only numbers being reported is the total number of funds, total number of unique accounts created on the RSI site, and total number of ships owned. That's it. CIG has never explicity stated those numbers mean anything else, and that's evidenced by Disco Lando publicly saying what the fleet number means. They're not trying to hide or misrepresent the numbers in any way.

"Knowing that one million people (and growing!) are counting on us will only further fuel our desire to deliver. Every member of the Star Citizen team already knows that we work for the backers… and reaching one million is just another reminder why we are giving this project all of ourselves." - Chris Roberts

Aye no *explicit* statement there, just misdirection. Misdirection which resulted in a boat of press announcing 1 million backers. I'm totally sure it was unintentional and this written statement wasn't crafted to mislead.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

CIG haven't as far as I'm aware stated anything about the number of backers.

Not sure about that.... you can see this misleading news spread on the gamespot and IGN:
[video=youtube;67X2ZGkP8jc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67X2ZGkP8jc[/video]

[video=youtube;0XBVgDUhFEc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XBVgDUhFEc[/video]

 

[1500]

You're having trouble so I'll make it clear.

While true that the universe will not have millions of active NPCs, the background simulation of the AI will in fact populate the space where players are located. If there's a battle simulated in space and one player happens to QT into it, it'll appear. Whenever players walk into cities, NPCs will populate the cities with a variety of standard jobs you'd expect to see such as janitorial duties, bartending, peacekeeping, medical work, shopkeeping, and even thuggery if you travel down the wrong alley. Each of these standard jobs will have their own set of mini jobs to do. When a bartender isn't serving drinks he'll be cleaning glasses, sweeping, wiping down the bar, etc. All meant to simulate a living, breathing universe.

Funny you said that it would have millions of NPC's, I point out that it will not, and you keep trying to prove me wrong by agreeing with me. how odd.


Sorry but burst your bobble, but you are talking about a company that can't get static NPC's working correctly with out them bugging out and getting stuck in T poses. There is zero evidence that anything you just said will happen.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Seriously though,

our long time residents would be expecting a thread closure and new thread at this point in the thread's life.

Previously we had to do that because of performance issues with the previous versions of the forum software, but the good news is that we think it is now fixed, so we are letting it run over the 10,000 post mark and we will see how it goes.

 

[idkmybffjill]

Ah, seems like you & 1500 arguing for different ends of the same thing.

The BGS will affect what parameters used when NPCs spawn, but the NPCs themselves are not simulated as part of the BGS. NPCs will have their own AI that affects their behaviour when you meet them.

Not necessarily just when they spawn, but these NPCs will have actual lives they're living. They'll have reasons for being in the same city you're in. You may be in a gun shop and an NPC walks in and wants to buy a gun because he's about to venture into lawless space for the first time. This system will also generate missions for players, where an escort mission could be taken from this specific planet to protect this specific NPC as he hunts for, say, a blackbox from a ship that got destroyed. These missions will also have threads, wherein a player may choose to investigate further once this mission is complete, find out who or why this ship was destroyed. That could lead to a bounty hunting mission where you hunt down a well-known pirate in the area.

 

[Voivod]

Seriously though,

our long time residents would be expecting a thread closure and new thread at this point in the thread's life.

Previously we had to do that because of performance issues with the previous versions of the forum software, but the good news is that we think it is now fixed, so we are letting it run over the 10,000 post mark and we will see how it goes.

To infinity and beyond!!


or at least to when Star Citizen releases.

 

[1500]

Seriously though,

our long time residents would be expecting a thread closure and new thread at this point in the thread's life.

Previously we had to do that because of performance issues with the previous versions of the forum software, but the good news is that we think it is now fixed, so we are letting it run over the 10,000 post mark and we will see how it goes.

ooo, so we serve a purpose after all. We are the guinea pigs of the forums. I can just see the programmer going "post my pretties post hahahahaha (evil laugh of your choice)"

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

To infinity and beyond!!


or at least to when Star Citizen releases.

At CIG's development rate, that sounds about right for that convergence.

 

[hairychris]

"Knowing that one million people (and growing!) are counting on us will only further fuel our desire to deliver. Every member of the Star Citizen team already knows that we work for the backers… and reaching one million is just another reminder why we are giving this project all of ourselves." - Chris Roberts

Aye no *explicit* statement there, just misdirection. Misdirection which resulted in a boat of press announcing 1 million backers. I'm totally sure it was unintentional and this written statement wasn't crafted to mislead.

If true then this is not good. It's the sort of thing that gets adverts removed by the regulators in the UK... but as they're not buying ad space with that claim in it I think that they're safe.

Speculating on mean/average number of ships owned per backer definitely gets the numbers pretty brutal pretty quickly.

Would be nice of them to clarify but, well, not holding breath.

 

[ianw]

I'd forgotten about the 10k limit tbh - should have clicked when I saw page 200 (I'm on 50 posts/page)...

 

[Zetta]

Not necessarily just when they spawn, but these NPCs will have actual lives they're living. They'll have reasons for being in the same city you're in. You may be in a gun shop and an NPC walks in and wants to buy a gun because he's about to venture into lawless space for the first time. This system will also generate missions for players, where an escort mission could be taken from this specific planet to protect this specific NPC as he hunts for, say, a blackbox from a ship that got destroyed. These missions will also have threads, wherein a player may choose to investigate further once this mission is complete, find out who or why this ship was destroyed. That could lead to a bounty hunting mission where you hunt down a well-known pirate in the area.

But no-one has seen a glimpse of this to date, is that correct?