General / Off-Topic Religion or science poll, just out of curiosity.

[Patrick_68000]

The universe itself might have caused the big bang for all we know. We don't know if there was one big bang or perhaps a never ending cycle of big bangs in an infinite universe. The universe may be eternal and the visible universe is believed to be only a small part of a much larger possibly infinite universe.

To knock the head against walls by thinking of the infinite universe

 

[Jaiotu]

"you are all stardust, forget Jesus, the stars died for you"

The stars don't care about us and didn't die 'for' us. Yes, their deaths resulted in our existence but I doubt that the stars made a conscious decision on the matter (unless of course the star is Mrs. Whatsit).

 

[Lianachan]

The universe itself might have caused the big bang for all we know. We don't know if there was one big bang or perhaps a never ending cycle of big bangs in an infinite universe. The universe may be eternal and the visible universe is believed to be only a small part of a much larger possibly infinite universe.

Also, of course, anybody could use "because magic space being" as an answer to any question anyway.

 

[amigacooke]

If a star is large enough they can die in an explosion called a supernova which gives us many of the heavier elements we have with us today.

Edit:

Actually all stars will eventually die including black holes which will eventually evaporate.

Matter can be destroyed?

 

[Patrick_68000]

The stars don't care about us and didn't die 'for' us. Yes, their deaths resulted in our existence but I doubt that the stars made a conscious decision on the matter (unless of course the star is Mrs. Whatsit).

Yes the stars die but give also the death

 

[jabokai]

Religion was a crutch man used before they actually understood things, through science. It's no different from witchcraft and voodoo - something made up to explain and/or control. People today are mainly religious for three reasons, none of them good - indoctrination, fear, and ego.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Religion was a crutch man used before they actually understood things, through science. It's no different from witchcraft and voodoo - something made up to explain and/or control. People today are mainly religious for three reasons, none of them good - indoctrination, fear, and ego.

I think the fear of the death can be justified

 

[amigacooke]

Religion was a crutch man used before they actually understood things, through science. It's no different from witchcraft and voodoo - something made up to explain and/or control. People today are mainly religious for three reasons, none of them good - indoctrination, fear, and ego.

How do you define good or bad scientifically?

 

[jabokai]

I think the fear of the death can be justified

Justified like this - "I'm afraid of dying therefore I will believe in some random fantasy to cope"? It still means they're choosing a belief through fear, and that's still not a good thing IMHO.

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How do you define good or bad scientifically?

People don't need religion to define good or bad, this has been proven in many studies - people fundamentally know right from wrong (morals) without the need for religion to define them. Obviously many people fall outwith this, religious or otherwise.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

As stars do not live, how can they die?

It was a joke by Krauss......he was mocking the notion that people think jesus died for all our sins while pointing out that we exist because stars blew up, no one has ever suggested that stars intended to die so we could exist.

 

[EdzUp]

Not knocking religion but i dont like "After life salesmen".

If we didnt smack into the Dark ages over here and science continued we would be out among the stars.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Justified like this - "I'm afraid of dying therefore I will believe in some random fantasy to cope"? It still means they're choosing a belief through fear, and that's still not a good thing IMHO.

The religion can help to the dignity of the human life (because the death is despicable, it is a decline). And can help us to endure our death. But also help us to endure the death of those we love. This can be a comfort in moments of despair

 

[jabokai]

The religion can help to the dignity of the human life (because the death is despicable, it is a decline). And can help us to endure our death. But also help us to endure the death of those we love. This can be a comfort in moments of despair

I don't disagree that it can help some people, however it's still founded on fear and fantasy and most of the people it helps got there through indoctrination. Personally, I'd rather face the hard truth than wrap it up in bunnies and cotton wool.

 

[amigacooke]

People don't need religion to define good or bad, this has been proven in many studies - people fundamentally know right from wrong (morals) without the need for religion to define them. Obviously many people fall outwith this, religious or otherwise.

'People fundamentally know right from wrong'. So there is no scientific basis for morals, they exist separate to the principles of science?

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It was a joke by Krauss......he was mocking the notion that people think jesus died for all our sins while pointing out that we exist because stars blew up, no one has ever suggested that stars intended to die so we could exist.

So bad science and bad theology then.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

The religion can help to the dignity of the human life (because the death is despicable, it is a decline). And can help us to endure our death. But also help us to endure the death of those we love. This can be a comfort in moments of despair

One can believe in these things, but it doesn't make them true, for example i could choose to believe that i will never die, but people will know that i will die, because everyone dies, regardless of how on feels about it. Religion is fine and dandy untill it starts to dictate, which it did and would again given half a chance, hence why i post this poll, in the real world, polititics and culture, are we secular scientists, faith based religionists, or do we believe in both. I would argue that those who say both are twisting their faith (in a good way)in the same manner that extremists twist their faith (or do they twist it ?).

 

[Patrick_68000]

I don't disagree that it can help some people, however it's still founded on fear and fantasy and most of the people it helps got there through indoctrination. Personally, I'd rather face the hard truth than wrap it up in bunnies and cotton wool.

One can believe in these things, but it doesn't make them true, for example i could choose to believe that i will never die, but people will know that i will die, because everyone dies, regardless of how on feels about it. Religion is fine and dandy untill it starts to dictate, which it did and would again given half a chance, hence why i post this poll, in the real world, polititics and culture, are we secular scientists, faith based religionists, or do we believe in both. I would argue that those who say both are twisting their faith (in a good way)in the same manner that extremists twist their faith (or do they twist it ?).

I understand well. I am not particularly with the religion, but the religion can be also an internal faith, without the réprésentation of the usual icons. The spirit, the higher soul is in us. Personally I believe in an immaterial superior soul. I feel it in me. I think you also

 

[EdzUp]

Once you prove that they exist then they lose their majesty and awe.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Science for me, it's based on empirical evidence that can be replicated and proven (until then it's just a theory). Religion is MAN made and has crap all to do with a "higher being", it's all to do with power over other people. Nothing can be proven by any sort of evidence and everything is FACT despite their being no evidence.

Religion - just say NO and the world will be a happier safer place.

edit - personal belief and spiritualism/paganism is fine, especially paganism because it worships nature and frankly without nature and this planet we're doomed!

 

[jabokai]

'People fundamentally know right from wrong'. So there is no scientific basis for morals, they exist separate to the principles of science?

Fundamentally as in instinctive. And instinct is a scientific principle. It's a combination of instinct and environment really though. They have studied tribes where there is no religion and discovered that their morals are the same everyone else's.

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I understand well. I am not particularly with the religion, but the religion can be also an internal faith, without the réprésentation of the usual icons. The spirit, the higher soul is in us. Personally I believe in an immaterial superior soul. I feel it in me. I think you also

Nope. I feel no such thing! I am a biological entity - the same as a dog, or an ant. When they die, they die, end of. And I'm no different. Again, I think people believing they have a spirit, or soul, even outwith defined religious faiths is still about fear and ego - "I'm too important to just end. All this simply cannot end", etc.

 

[Marra Morgan]

I'm a pagan who's quite comfortable embracing science

I have equal distrust of zealots who force religion on others and of the emotionless automatons who are programmed by "logic and reason".
Both are as dull as each other.