Poll about exit-to-menu delay time

[Varrag]

Though I'd imagine it would still be a sticking point for a lot of players, and we'd probably have even more actual combat logging if they had this implemented.

Doubt that. People would soon learn that escaping from game in face of danger is not worth the price; because once they log back in, chances are that they would meet rebuy screen. Unless their opponent(s) couldn't score a single hit within the 15 seconds timeframe.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's an legitimate action that has the potential of breaking a legitimate profession or mechanic within the game, and it's being abused.

I would agree that it has potential to be game-breaking for some players (who preferentially target other players) - however, it seems that that is a price that has already been paid given Frontier's stance on the matter.

"Ganking" is not piracy, and it can effectively be countered by having escort or being alert to one's sensor. 15 second log abuse has no counter.

If every player could avoid gankers then they could, by the same token, avoid pirates. The fact that pirates complain of players leaving the game in front of them implies that not all players can avoid either pirates or gankers. NPC Wingmen are not available and not all players enjoy the luxury of having other players prepared to fly along with them on trade runs for 5% of their profit.

Of course leaving the game has no counter - it's passing through the fourth wall.

 

[JosiahD]

Sorry but I see combat logging (by disconnection) and legitimate logging out in combat such a minor issue that it's simply not worth the effort to do much about beyond the 15s timer (which is quite adequate in my opinion) for menu exit and bans for combat loggers....
.
It doesn't affect anyone in solo. I would argue its impact in a private group is minimal as those in such a group should be amongst friends who will apply their own rules about such things. So it's only a consideration in Open - so only impacts that subset of the playerbase for a start. Of those in Open only, in turn only a subset of those are affected as combat logging or exiting via the menu is arguably only a concern in a PvP engagement (a minority of the playerbase to begin with I would argue). And of those who regularly engage in (or get drawn into involuntarily) PvP, only a subset of those will even entertain combat logging or exiting via the menu as an option (and they'll be the attacked rather than the attacker?). My point being that, in the grand scheme of things, across the activity of the WHOLE playerbase and once you eliminate those circumstances in which it is irrelevant, I sense that those who combat log or exit via the menu during combat (and PvP combat specifically) are such a small minority that it seems not worth the effort to do much more about it (beyond the timer for exiting, and bans for combat loggers). Granted, it makes piracy more difficult as a career choice, but arguably only if a pirate mistakenly focuses on pirating players only, which is never going to work as they might like given the matchmaking, instancing, dispersed playerbase etc. And arguably someone who insists on combat logging or exiting via the menu in combat shouldn't be in open to begin with, mind you.
.
So that leaves the psychopathic killers (again a small minority) who want to simply destroy other CMDRs for jollies and no legitimate in-game reason. In which case I don't actually care whether their gameplay is adversely affected by either combat logging or exiting via the menu in combat as it's what they deserve.

 

[Varrag]

I would agree that it has potential to be game-breaking for some players (who preferentially target other players) - however, it seems that that is a price that has already been paid given Frontier's stance on the matter.

That's why I said that Gluttony -while being completely reasonable with his suggestions, IMHO- is fighting the lost battle. Game has been designed as it is, it's been out for quite a while, people are used to it and developed certain, err.. mentality. Etc. It's probably too late now for drastic changes, even if some of us think they would be for good.

One more thing: I am not happy when I google 'combat logging' and see that ED usually comes at the top together with DayZ and few other titles. Multplayer games plagued with this issue are usually getting lot of flak - and well deserved, if I may say. Out-of-control combat logging has never done any good to one multiplayer game.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I would agree that it has potential to be game-breaking for some players (who preferentially target other players) - however, it seems that that is a price that has already been paid given Frontier's stance on the matter.

FD doesn't seem to have acknowledged its damaging effects, which is why until a statement is made clear on the matter, it cannot be considered to be so by default.

If every player could avoid gankers then they could, by the same token, avoid pirates. The fact that pirates complain of players leaving the game in front of them implies that not all players can avoid either pirates or gankers.

That conclusion doesn't follow, since players can fail to avoid pirates in Open mode, that hinges on player's game play in Open, not gankers' nor pirate's action. And I don't understand on what ground does player legitimize the complete avoidance of a legitimate profession in Open mode. It's like trying to play ED without being interdicted even once by a pirate NPC, it's not suppose to be completely avoidable, just as player pirates in Open aren't completely avoidable by any means of absolute.

Of course leaving the game has no counter - it's passing through the fourth wall.

And that's why it breaks the profession.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Fold

I don't get what FD's trying to do.

It claims player conflict is integral to the game, then legitimize a feature open to abuse to break player conflict.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Granted, it makes piracy more difficult as a career choice, but arguably only if a pirate mistakenly focuses on pirating players only, which is never going to work as they might like given the matchmaking, instancing, dispersed playerbase etc.

It's not just difficult any more, it's near impossible.

Solo piracy is 99% impossible in system outside of Anarchy since the 2.1 patch, especially against NPCs. I'm not complaining about it since I welcome the difficulty (partially because I roll with a crew), but in case you haven't noticed, the system security trigger depends on whether a clean target is shot at or not (including the use of hatch breaker, which makes target hostile). Unlike players, player pirates can't demand cargo from NPC, meaning forceful extraction is the only way, which triggers system security.

Basically piracy got another nerf in 2.1 (solo piracy in non-anarchy ~= impossible) in exchange for more toys to use to stop ships, player ships that is since NPCs don't need those toys to deal with. And the 15 second exit is still there, and you wonder why pirates are discontent and feel disenfranchised.

 

[frostypaw]

Or it warrants an explicit explanation that states: The multiplayer aspect of the piracy and bounty hunter profession are completely dependent upon the explicit consent of the victims of these professions.

Until that statement or something similar to it is given by FD, it's a broken profession. And when that statement is given, it's time for me to officially quit the game (not as a threat, just a statement).

I suspect if you ask Frontier directly you may get an answer.

Generally when people play games with each other it is a matter of consent yes. That surely is trivial? Try asking them if they want to see players forced into situations they are hating and not enjoying, and whether they think making players suffer through things they hate will sell more copies of the game?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Try asking them if they want to see players forced into situations they are hating and not enjoying, and whether they think making players suffer through things they hate will sell more copies of the game?

And forcing players to deal with ships magically vanishing into thin air will sell more copies how?

 

[PavelKCZ]

And forcing players to deal with ships magically vanishing into thin air will sell more copies how?

Well, why you simply do not make a Group called "Pirates vs. Traders" ? You will see how many players will be willing to play with you. After couple of months, you can compare the size of your Group for example to the Mobius.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Well, why you simply do not make a Group called "Pirates vs. Traders" ?

I already distinguished scripted piracy and unscripted piracy, the former isn't piracy, it's begging, the latter is actually piracy.

 

[frostypaw]

And forcing players to deal with ships magically vanishing into thin air will sell more copies how?

Pup look at how popular what you do is.

Everyone quits on you and refuses to play with you.

Every toxic player costs an online game tens of normal users. Trust me, wouldn't be an issue. "Hey I bought a new game! It was god-awful and someone treated me like a toy!" "Yeah!!! I want that game! Wicked!"

Nah, that's not a great sales pitch is it. Don't fret about it.

 

[PavelKCZ]

I already distinguished scripted piracy and unscripted piracy, the former isn't piracy, it's begging, the latter is actually piracy.

I am not asking about petty differences in griefing. I am asking, why you simply do not make closed (or semi-closed) group for players who want to play the same game as you want to play. In Group, you all can be happy and you will not need to bother other players, who are not willing to play ED your way.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Pup look at how popular what you do is.

Everyone quits on you and refuses to play with you.

No one wants disruptive factors in their regular operation, same with pirates not wanting bounty hunters. But if FD tries to facilitate player conflict, I don't think having 15 second exit is the way to go about it.

Every toxic player costs an online game tens of normal users.

Ignoring personal commentary, not interested.

 

[Querty Out]

I have voted "no exit during combat"; it makes sense. If you agree to playing a match (play in Open) then you should play to the conclusion. Do you agree to getting attacked by another player when choosing Open, you ask? Yes, you agree that this is a possible outcome.

I accept that the current logout time is 15 seconds. This is within the current rules and game mechanics just like random murder is; the latter is less immersion breaking though. One cannot accept one without the other but, of course, one may not like one or the other either.

Regarding zero logout time: That's fine as long as it is in Private/Solo only and the CMDR account is locked to Private/Solo; otherwise it's just another disadvantage for Open. And Alt-F4 in Private/Solo is not cool either for the same reasons.

Player vs player piracy and player vs player bounty hunting was at least at some point on FDev's mind. There is just no solution currently to make that viable and FDev's intentions may have changed. All polls I have seen seem to indicate that the current player base is more leaning towards PVE rather than PVP (75/25 split or thereabouts) thus giving logout timing a lesser priority right now.

Question on the side: I was told this is a public poll before voting. Does that mean there a list of voters somewhere? I seem to have missed the link.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I am not asking about petty differences in griefing.

And I stopped reading until you write something productive to the discussion.

 

[frostypaw]

Ignoring personal commentary, not interested.

It's how you play fella, we know you're a perfectly nice fluffball personally speaking in real life. Just gotta realise what you're doing isn't popular and you can't force people to like it. Can always change that.

Try a different style - more

perhaps and folk might wanna play along more.

 

[GluttonyFang]

It's how you play fella, we know you're a perfectly nice fluffball personally speaking in real life. Just gotta realise what you're doing isn't popular and you can't force people to like it. Can always change that.

Nice one, avoiding the argument at hand again.

Pup look at how popular what you do is.

Everyone quits on you and refuses to play with you.

"No one wants disruptive factors in their regular operation, same with pirates not wanting bounty hunters. But if FD tries to facilitate player conflict, I don't think having 15 second exit is the way to go about it."

And you wonder why people say you don't read...

Try a different style - more
http://www.denofgeek.us/sites/denof...rt_main_wide_image/public/deniro-stardust.png
perhaps and folk might wanna play along more.

Meh, not interested in inflammatory provocation.

 

[frostypaw]

Nice one, avoiding the argument at hand again.

You falsely claimed by purposefully misunderstanding my comment that it was a personal slight - so I directly responded that it is a comment on playstyle chosen, not you as a person.

Any slithery way to claim that's me avoiding the argument?

"No one wants disruptive factors in their regular operation, same with pirates not wanting bounty hunters. But if FD tries to facilitate player conflict, I don't think having 15 second exit is the way to go about it."

And you wonder why people say you don't read...

dear pup you've been crying out the dead sea about this for years best I can tell - there are people on mars who know how you feel about the quit timer - why on earth would i bother going around and around the same dry run you've worn around your stake in the back yard?

The devs have answered. Man the hell up and deal with it.

Meh, not interested in inflammatory provocation.

And for god's sake, and your own - get a sense of humour. That wink is just a profile pic i guess

 

[PavelKCZ]

And I stopped reading until you write something productive to the discussion.

No problem. But if you do not read my post, you will probably never will understand where the root of all those disussions is.

It is quite simple. Vast majority of players most probably do not want to play with you and do not want to play the way you like to play. Get used to it.

Actually, when I was a really young guy (more than 45 years ago) we had a similar guy in out neigbourgh. When we all was playing in the real sandbox, this boy had a bit habit to destroy our sand castles, tunnels etc. Here and there, he also sometimes stole a plastic car from someone etc. After a really short time, we decided that we do not want to play with him and as soon as he appeared in the sandbox, we went to do something else. No problem for us, we always had a lot of fun around.
Funny thing was, that this boy, alone in the sanbox, always started crying and told his mom "They are evil, they do not want to play with me"...

 

[GluttonyFang]

dear pup you've been crying out the dead sea about this for years best I can tell - there are people on mars who know how you feel about the quit timer - why on earth would i bother going around and around the same dry run you've worn around your stake in the back yard?

Because you haven't provided any reasonable objection to the point I made, hence either voice a logical objection or you can keep writing unproductive commentary, your choice.

The devs have answered. Man the hell up and deal with it.

Haven't seen evidence of that whatsoever on the subject I inquire.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It is quite simple. Vast majority of players most probably do not want to play with you and do not want to play the way you like to play. Get used to it.

No one wants to be pirated nor want to be bounty hunted, but FD decided that player conflict is integral to the game, I fail to see how it is integral with a legitimized out of game mechanic that breaks player conflict.

Actually, when I was a really young guy (more than 45 years ago) we had a similar guy in out neigbourgh. When we all was playing in the real sandbox, this boy had a bit habit to destroy our sand castles, tunnels etc. Here and there, he also sometimes stole a plastic car from someone etc. After a really short time, we decided that we do not want to play with him and as soon as he appeared in the sandbox, we went to do something else. No problem for us, we always had a lot of fun around.
Funny thing was, that this boy, alone in the sanbox, always started crying and told his mom "They are evil, they do not want to play with me"...

And you are exhibiting inability to distinguish real life and video game, I suggest re-examining your anecdote.