If the AI is gonna stay this smart... any and all cheats have got to go

[Kyle Nix]

If everyone wants the ace AI to stay, fine.. But then you have to take away all their cheats, including infinite heat and ammo. Smart AI needs to suffer the same exact consequences.

Those were acceptable BECAUSE they were so limited. If almost every AI after Competent is now a Flight Assist off master, then they don't need any cheats anymore. After all, if they're all so smart, they have to know trigger discipline?

I'm not going to criticize the cheats originally being there for so long, because a basic game design principle is that NPC's just HAVE to cheat a little in order to stand a chance against skilled players. But now, when a Sidewinder ace (ALONE I might add) can casually fly in my butt backwards melting me like Powdered Toast Man because I'm not a master of Flight Assist off and/or not in a Vulture/Eagle, it's not fun.

 

[777Driver]

AI don't use flight assist off... What they can do is use correct pip management and all available thrusters.

 

[Kyle Nix]

AI don't use flight assist off...

I can think of no other explanation for how small ships can permanently be in my craw now? Even when I'm in another small ship?

 

[Minoo Minou]

If everyone wants the ace AI to stay, fine.. But then you have to take away all their cheats, including infinite heat and ammo. Smart AI needs to suffer the same exact consequences.

Those were acceptable BECAUSE they were so limited. If almost every AI after Competent is now a Flight Assist off master, then they don't need any cheats anymore. After all, if they're all so smart, they have to know trigger discipline?

I'm not going to criticize the cheats originally being there for so long, because a basic game design principle is that NPC's just HAVE to cheat a little in order to stand a chance against skilled players. But now, when a Sidewinder ace (ALONE I might add) can casually fly in my butt backwards melting me like Powdered Toast Man because I'm not a master of Flight Assist off and/or not in a Vulture/Eagle, it's not fun.

Can you provide some clear evidence that the AI cheats? Because it doesn't look that way when I play.

 

[Thetele]

Heat and unlimited ammo isn't personally that big of a issue to me. wouldn't notice if they removed those. But the almost 100% accuracy they have with PAs is a problem. So far every npc using PAs in 2,1 have never missed my vulture or eagle.

 

[Minoo Minou]

Heat and unlimited ammo isn't personally that big of a issue to me. wouldn't notice if they removed those. But the almost 100% accuracy they have with PAs is a problem. So far every npc using PAs in 2,1 have never missed my vulture or eagle.

And what are you doing in their line of fire? Especially with a Vulture or Eagle?

 

[777Driver]

I can think of no other explanation for how small ships can permanently be in my craw now? Even when I'm in another small ship?

Because you are not flying the ship anywhere near it's full potential, you're simply being outclassed. If you can't handle competent or above, at the very least read up on how to protect yourself from those NPC's long enough to escape - Basics are keep 4 pips to shields, you are still vulnerable to shots even when escaping

 

[Kyle Nix]

Well, there's the whole fact that they pop shield batteries so often without frying themselves everyone talks about..

Infinite ammo for miniguns is not only something we've seen, but the devs have even admitted.. They certainly don't seem to need to stop firing most kinds of lasers or PA's either, except when out of their firing arcs.

I once fought a Vulture, I should add this is PRE-Engineers who had a Chaff. I was able to keep up but because I use gimbal's, actually KILLING him took a while mostly because he kept popping chaff. After a while, I started counting. 13. 13 times, with ONE launcher. One launcher maybe has 11.

Because you are not flying the ship anywhere near it's full potential, you're simply being outclassed. If you can't handle competent or above, at the very least read up on how to protect yourself from those NPC's long enough to escape - Basics are keep 4 pips to shields, you are still vulnerable to shots even when escaping

I usually keep 4 pips in shields and 1 in everything else, unless I NEED to maneuver or rapid-fire.

 

[Mark Lock]

OMG, NPCs could not be easier to beat than they are now, stop saying they are difficult or they maneuver better or they "cheat" , they already listened to those who like making easy credits, now please stop that, this patch just dumbed down AIs again, do you want it even easier ? Why don't you improve your skills instead ? Maybe fight lower ranked npcs, there are systems that are full of them, just find those systems and stick to them, you will make less credits but at least you will get your easy victory against dumb npcs...

But you know what the real issue is ? You guys want to make millions overnight by just farming easy to beat npcs, you don't like challenges, you like easy games that make you feel the Hero of the galaxy while you don't understand the game at all and don't try to improve your skills instead of requesting FD to dumb down all AIs again...

I don't like saying this but I'm tired of whiners forcing FD to dumb down the game to please those who don't even try to improve and understand the game...
Please guys, just GIT GUD !!!

 

[777Driver]

Heat and unlimited ammo isn't personally that big of a issue to me. wouldn't notice if they removed those. But the almost 100% accuracy they have with PAs is a problem. So far every npc using PAs in 2,1 have never missed my vulture or eagle.

Lateral and vertical thrust is the simplest method to avoid plasma shots. Probably the easiest shots ingame to avoid. Still it's not an issue if you are configuring the ship to avoid fire long enough to escape, soak it up and high wake after the cooldown.

 

[Arguendo]

According to the AI programmer they do not:
- Use Flight Assist Off
- Have unlimited ammo (except MC)
- Ignore the effects of heat
- Have infinite chaff
- Have infinite SCBs

If you believe you have encpuntered an AI who does ANY of these things; report it! And make sure it is well documented. That means video with full list of subsystems displayed in the video etc etc.
Don't call the AI cheaters, because they are not. And if it does something that would be considered a cheat, it's actually a bug.
Don't just make threads like this if you want something fixed. Rather report it in the Bugs forum with appropriate documentation.

 

[777Driver]

I usually keep 4 pips in shields and 1 in everything else, unless I NEED to maneuver or rapid-fire.

Well that is a good start, how about posting a video, it's easier to see where things are going wrong.

 

[Ziljan]

The AI does not get infinite ammo (only for MCs), and is about as much of an "ace pilot" as a toy train or a gyroscope. I'm pretty sure they also suffer heat damage from SCBs, if you bother to check their modules % tab.

Please stop speading false info, and learn the game before you offer critiques.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I was dodging plasma shots (from a Deadly opponent) in a Dropship last night, so I know it can be done.

Think about your flight path, and the things you are doing to make it predictable or relatively static (I know it's predictable or relatively static, because you are getting hit with plasma - assuming it's not close range). Think about the things you can do it make it less predictable and less static. Keep in mind that oftentimes a too-sudden change of direction just makes you static in the meantime, and an easy target.

When trying to dodge fire, make sure you have all pips in Eng, and you are using thrusters. If you are doing this, and still getting hit, try new thruster maneuvers. Keep in mind that you can directional-thruster boost, and get much better performance. If all else fails, full pips to Sys and take the hit.

NPC maneuvering isn't cheating, you can do it all yourself too. It's just a matter of practice, knowledge, practice, practice, multitasking, and practice.

 

[Cheops1975]

According to the AI programmer they do not:
- Use Flight Assist Off
- Have unlimited ammo (except MC)
- Ignore the effects of heat
- Have infinite chaff
- Have infinite SCBs

If you believe you have encpuntered an AI who does ANY of these things; report it! And make sure it is well documented. That means video with full list of subsystems displayed in the video etc etc.
Don't call the AI cheaters, because they are not. And if it does something that would be considered a cheat, it's actually a bug.
Don't just make threads like this if you want something fixed. Rather report it in the Bugs forum with appropriate documentation.

Tell that to Bob Loblaw in an elite FDL who interdicted me in a 30LY jump ASP. After I submitted and boosted. High waked to the next system. One more jump and 60LY later.. guess who interdicted me again? That's some bug. Or part of a spawn mechanic that needs some serious revisiting.

 

[PhanttoM]

According to the AI programmer they do not:
- Use Flight Assist Off
- Have unlimited ammo (except MC)
- Ignore the effects of heat
- Have infinite chaff
- Have infinite SCBs

If you believe you have encpuntered an AI who does ANY of these things; report it! And make sure it is well documented. That means video with full list of subsystems displayed in the video etc etc.
Don't call the AI cheaters, because they are not. And if it does something that would be considered a cheat, it's actually a bug.
Don't just make threads like this if you want something fixed. Rather report it in the Bugs forum with appropriate documentation.

Aye, documentation in form of video would be so simple to test most of those things.

Example: Unlimited ammo? Follow an NPC around and do simple counting...1,2,3,4 etc. I don't even know why this is a problem, players can use synthesis to make more ammo. I had over 100 railgun rounds last I checked how much vanadium and iron I had.

Unlimited chaff or SCB? Do the same. Although I'm pretty sure they DON'T based on casually playing the game...otherwise I'd still be fighting that SCB spamming Python I last came across 2 hours ago.

Granted, heat and FA-off is a bit harder to test.

 

[Cheops1975]

I was dodging plasma shots (from a Deadly opponent) in a Dropship last night, so I know it can be done.

Think about your flight path, and the things you are doing to make it predictable or relatively static (I know it's predictable or relatively static, because you are getting hit with plasma - assuming it's not close range). Think about the things you can do it make it less predictable and less static. Keep in mind that oftentimes a too-sudden change of direction just makes you static in the meantime, and an easy target.

When trying to dodge fire, make sure you have all pips in Eng, and you are using thrusters. If you are doing this, and still getting hit, try new thruster maneuvers. Keep in mind that you can directional-thruster boost, and get much better performance. If all else fails, full pips to Sys and take the hit.

NPC maneuvering isn't cheating, you can do it all yourself too. It's just a matter of practice, knowledge, practice, practice, multitasking, and practice.

To be fair.. it would require a LOT of practice and about 2 pounds of cocaine to be able to mimic analog control over all your ships systems and match the AI.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I usually keep 4 pips in shields and 1 in everything else, unless I NEED to maneuver or rapid-fire.

I'd recommend getting used to changing your pips a lot more frequently. Can you macro anything? I have a macro to set my pips for full shields, full thrusters, or full weapons, each with one in the other two. There's no "usual" placement for them when I'm fighting, I'm changing it every few seconds or more, depending on what is happening in the fight.

 

[Darkfyre99]

IIRC, the main advantage AIs have over humans in this game is better pip and thruster control.

Lord knows that is my main problem. Despite having a CH HOTAS with a mini joystick for lateral and vertical thrusters, I still tend to go full burn when using them. I also can't count the number of times I've told myself, "You weren't taking fire or firing weapons just now, you should've diverted pips to engines for better maneuverability."

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Tell that to Bob Loblaw in an elite FDL who interdicted me in a 30LY jump ASP. After I submitted and boosted. High waked to the next system. One more jump and 60LY later.. guess who interdicted me again? That's some bug. Or part of a spawn mechanic that needs some serious revisiting.

That's an issue with the NPC's not being persistent. He didn't "chase" you and jump after you. The game deleted him when you jumped out, and respawned him when you got to the next system.

It's not an AI cheating, it's the game not being smart enough to manage NPC's across multiple star systems. It would be really cool to have that feature, I agree. I'm sure FD would like to have that in the game as well. But it's an additional feature that would need to be worked on (and take a lot of resources), it's not "cheating".