This is making Trading Impossible

[NeroZero]

Would you prefer to die? I don't get it.

Look, let say I like to have a ferrari in Need For Speed!!! I put some effort and finally I have my supercar, spend a year to get it. On next update EA decided to put random police posts which will kill you with probability of 99% on speeding over 50KM/h. Definitely it is still possible that from each 1000 players 10 will probably find this update super useful ...

Get the point now?

Combat zones, haz res sites, ... etc is now closed for ships larger then FDL/python. You have a time to kill one or two ships and try to escape from viper or vulture or asp. Also Shields in Engineers is now made of paper. and there is a chance that OP NPC or Player will hit your hull while your shields is still active..... Complete Nonsense.

And Grinding ... Good god. I have strong filling that almost everything in this game made against player.

Conclusion:
if before update I was spending ~2-3 hours playing it on weekends. After update I'm spending 2 hours reading forums and reporting bugs vs 30 min in game.

 

[SeeZaa]

this is a game in permanent development, not something that was sold finished, with fixed assets and the occasional stand alone dlc. pretty much everything that is added to the game, especially tweaks to core mechanics, effect everything else. this means that some things have to change in preparation for others. the ai is 1 of those, it had to become more complex for what is to follow, and when those things happen, the ai will still be a challenge but we will have a much better tool set, in the form of fighters and multi crews, that will make bigger ships fun again for those who are feeling the pinch.

elite was never meant to be an arcade shooter, has never been, nor will it ever be. we are now entering a phase of the development that takes into account all of a ships stats.. all of them.. so for some of us, we need to learn (relearn) what weight our ships can punch at, and in what situations/pairings, and just as importantly, when not to bother deploying weapons, and just be on or toes and gone. for those wanting things back the way they were.. we either have a game that develops and grows over the next 8 or 9 years, or we have a game that stays static in 2.0.

time to drop the 'bigger is better' or 'bigger should be better' paradigm (more money =/= better at everything) each ship and the role they are equipped for, will now more realistically dictate how it can be played, or function, relative to any given situation. that to me is great game design.. we are no longer looking at flying expensive skins, that can all compete on the same playing field. i think this introduces a whole new level of meaning to the game.. as i said, fighters and multi-crew will really add something to that mix.. patience timothy.

 

[NeroZero]

time to drop the 'bigger is better' or 'bigger should be better' paradigm.

Imagine a war, where the guy on bicycle with a screwdriver has more chance to survive, then a super modern, high tech vehicle which has all types of defensive mechanisms.

of course the bicycle man is highly trained and has all possible skills.

 

[SeeZaa]

Look, let say I like to have a ferrari in Need For Speed!!! I put some effort and finally I have my supercar, spend a year to get it. On next update EA decided to put random police posts which will kill you with probability of 99% on speeding over 50KM/h.

Conclusion:
if before update I was spending ~2-3 hours playing it on weekends. After update I'm spending 2 hours reading forums and reporting bugs vs 30 min in game.

aside from my 2 almost instant deaths in my python when 2.1 hit.. i have not yet died again.. listened to advice from other players, more importantly used it, dropped to smaller ship, and schooled myself in the new ai.. i was a carebear trader, now im playing the game... still a carebear though.

before 2.1 i had been playing very little, maybe even 2 or 3 months off. since 2.1 i have been playing for 3 or 4 hours each day, the game now keeps my attention, there is the potential for trouble constantly, my old trader snooze fest days are over, i may not be making as much money as before, but the changes they have made means that really does not matter.. grab yourself a DBScout and go play at nav beacons or rez's and get to grips with the changes, even just sittong watching the npc's fight each other is eye opening.

 

[777Driver]

Imagine a war, where the guy on bicycle with a screwdriver has more chance to survive, then a super modern, high tech vehicle which has all types of defensive mechanisms.

of course the bicycle man is highly trained and has all possible skills.

Anymore stupid analogies? Bigger has never always been better in combat.

 

[Cynaqq]

Imagine a war, where the guy on bicycle with a screwdriver has more chance to survive, then a super modern, high tech vehicle which has all types of defensive mechanisms.

of course the bicycle man is highly trained and has all possible skills.

Please provide me with an example from the game where you based your analogy on. Because the way I experience the game now, there's simply no way for what you insinuate to happen.

The high tech vehicle with all kinds of defensive mechanisms would be a big ship, say an anaconda equipped with a proper shield generator suitable for its mass, chaff, point defense, turreted weapons, shield boosters, bulkheads and a pilot who knows what they are doing.

Bicycle guy with a screwdriver would be the starting sidey with the stock weapons.

I'm sorry, in the game as it stands now, there's simply no scenario this would lead to the sidey surviving. Simply no way.

Big ships frequently get killed or at least damaged by small ships but those small ships usually attack in groups, have advanced weaponry like railguns, which only go up to class two, so every ship can have them and are flown by at least dangerous ranked AI.

I'm sorry, what you say simply doesn't happen.

If you really have a properly defensive ship build in a big ship, there's simply no way you'll die from an interdiction unless you get jumped by a wing of at least dangerous ships with railguns and you decide to stay and fight instead of chaff, boost and jump to another system. If the wing is so strong that they manage to kill you before you can high wake out, then you are simply unlucky that one time because that never happened to me once since I started playing the game last year. I've only died twice to AI aggression and once was in a cobra and the other in an eagle. All other times were either PvP or an accident. And I do trade in a conda.

I know what I'm saying may not necessarily represent the experience of everyone but still, from what I know from talking irl to people who play the game, the outrage within the forums don't represent what is going on in my experience.

 

[NeroZero]

grab yourself a DBScout

But what about my ferrari ??? Or a Year I spent to have it ?

more money =/= better at everything

Imagine two equal skill guys, one have time to play only on weekends, another playing all day long.
If you spend more time - you have more chance to get more upgrades. Remember ? Time == money!


And after let say a year of your hard work, ED will make an balance update that will nullify all of your staff. Whole year of your hard work will be flushed into toilet...
This is already happened once. Remember ? Nurfed Python.

 

[Siranui]

Imagine a war, where the guy on bicycle with a screwdriver has more chance to survive, then a super modern, high tech vehicle which has all types of defensive mechanisms.

of course the bicycle man is highly trained and has all possible skills.

Imagine a war where you can shoot down fifty equally skilled combatants, some with better aircraft in air to air combat, on your own, in less than an hour, with complete confidence, only bothering to land when you are out of ammunition. You do this five times a day.

That's how it used to be.

 

[SeeZaa]

Imagine a war, where the guy on bicycle with a screwdriver has more chance to survive, then a super modern, high tech vehicle which has all types of defensive mechanisms.

of course the bicycle man is highly trained and has all possible skills.

really bad metaphor.. during wwII the Nova Scotia Highlanders made the deepest inland penetration on d-day.. on folded bicycles!

Spoiler

 

[Jabezz]

I spent 15 minutes in combat in true hell, 12% of hull left. My conclusion - it is close to impossible to fight more agile ships.
Now days - there is no reason to fly anything other then Python / FDL and more smaller and agile ships. From my point of view - this is stupid. Now I have a lots of useless ships in garage: 2 Anacondas, Cutter and Fed. Corvette..

Im sorry but you are just plane wrong. I fly two ships, the FDL and the Conda. Pre-2.1 I used to fly the Conda like a fighter and that worked because the AI was so poor. Now the AI is working more as intended I can't do that anymore, which is a good thing.

However by going to the outfitters and putting some thought into it I have re-kitted the Conda to a different combat spec and it now can kick ass again from small fighters to Condas/ Vettes at any rank. Yes you have to know when to run if a wing looks particularly nasty but the game is much more fun now.

The big secret to this change? As simple as two large beam turrets one on top and one underneath. The rest of the points are gimballed multicannons including the new C4 and C3s. It's not rocket science.

 

[NeroZero]

I'm sorry, in the game as it stands now, there's simply no scenario this would lead to the sidey surviving. Simply no way.

Big ships frequently get killed or at least damaged by small ships but those small ships usually attack in groups, have advanced weaponry like railguns, which only go up to class two, so every ship can have them and are flown by at least dangerous ranked AI.

I'm sorry, what you say simply doesn't happen.

Do you read my earlier post? I was interdicted by elite vulture, yesterday. My shields almost gone (half of the last ring left until SCB was used) in literally 2 sec!!!! A6 Shield with 3 Shield booster (Python).

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However by going to the outfitters and putting some thought into it I have re-kitted the Conda to a different combat spec and it now can kick ass again from small fighters to Condas/ Vettes at any rank. Yes you have to know when to run if a wing looks particularly nasty but the game is much more fun now..

Could you please provide a video of NPC Elite Vulture vs your conda ? 1 vs 1 ?

 

[Jabezz]

Do you read my earlier post? I was interdicted by elite vulture, yesterday. My shields almost gone (half of the last ring left until SCB was used) in literally 2 sec!!!! A6 Shield with 3 Shield booster (Python).

You stated there was no point in flying any other ship than and FDL or Python. That's what I said you were wrong about. How is flying one of those going to prevent that NPC weapon that reduced your shields so quickly having any less effect?

Youre not making any sense.

 

[Cynaqq]

Do you read my earlier post? I was interdicted by elite vulture, yesterday. My shields almost gone (half of the last ring left until SCB was used) in literally 2 sec!!!! A6 Shield with 3 Shield booster (Python).

Exactly proving my point. A vulture is a proficient and dedicated combat ship, with an unmatched maneuverability. A vulture with rails is not a bicycle with a screwdriver. It should disable shields in two seconds, especially if the said Python didn't have four pips in systems. Did you have four pips in systems all through the attack? Also, what was the rating of your shield boosters? On top of that, it was an Elite NPC.

What would you say if it was a dangerous or deadly player with the same exact ship and loadout you encountered. Would you still think unfair if the player brought down your shields in two seconds too?

 

[NeroZero]

You stated there was no point in flying any other ship than and FDL or Python. That's what I said you were wrong about. How is flying one of those going to prevent that NPC weapon that reduced your shields so quickly having any less effect?

Youre not making any sense.

You have almost enough agility to combat smaller ship in Pythion and FDL. That is what I mean. You can`t fight vulture in Conda/Corvette. Which you have to do in combat zones time to time.

 

[Jabezz]

You have almost enough agility to combat smaller ship in Pythion and FDL. That is what I mean. You can`t fight vulture in Conda/Corvette. Which you have to do in combat zones time to time.

Well I must be playing a different game to you because I'm successfully fighting vultures and FDLs on a daily basis in my Conda, that's all I can say.

 

[NeroZero]

Also, what was the rating of your shield boosters?

A0

Would you still think unfair if the player brought down your shields in two seconds too?

Yes, Shield should give you about 10-15 sec to decide what to do. in 1 VS 1.

2 sec is too much! exit from interdicion - and boom - no shields.

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Well I must be playing a different game to you because I'm successfully fighting vultures and FDLs on a daily basis in my Conda, that's all I can say.

Could you please make a video ? I'm really like to see a technique how to fight more agile ship, let say viper/vulture/asp in conda or corvette. Thanks in advance.

 

[777Driver]

Could you please provide a video of NPC Elite Vulture vs your conda ? 1 vs 1 ?

How about this, I'll post a video of my T9 destroying an Elite NPC vulture, you provide a video of your Python getting taken down in 2 seconds. Am mining out near Maia at the moment, will be back in the bubble this evening.

 

[Julesk_1972]

Sure show different videos 100 times.

not 1:100 ratio.

as that is the case plus more.

 

[Cynaqq]

How about this, I'll post a video of my T9 destroying an Elite NPC vulture, you provide a video of your Python getting taken down in 2 seconds. Am mining out near Maia at the moment, will be back in the bubble this evening.

I'm really looking forward to the video, I hope you get a worthy opponent to film while they die

 

[Steve_T]

I'm currently trading in a T7 while saving for the T9. I was using the crappy 4E shield with no boosters and when interdicted I would submit and run with 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields. Fortunately 777driver has made me see the error of my ways and I have upgraded the shield to 4A with a booster (will prob add another one). I now flee with 4 pips to shields and 2 to engines and my shield rarely goes down.
Obviously high waking is key as you don't have to wait to clear the mass lock.