Players have forgotten a fundamental concept, and that's why they're complaining about the difficulty.

[JuicerPrime]

it's not a problem of it being difficult..... I for one like the new AI.... my problem is it needs to be balanced, as it right now, it just annoying to the point that people are leaving the game because of it. one example....
8 jumps to make, interdicted 7 Times. each time you take damage because of the spinning interdiction issue regardless of if you submit or not.
and I fear that engineers will be jut like Power Play, and QCQ, both failed achieve what the could have.
The grinding and then the roll of the dice are just not my thing, and to be honest, I have over 2600 hours in the game right now and at the point of uninstalling it.

That's down to shoddy bug squashing rather than the AI. There's a few odd things going on at the moment that seem to be invariably deadly, which are costing players lots of hard-earned resources. High risk, but no improvement in reward - hence why you see a lot of players talking about downgrading the ships they fly at the moment, I suppose.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

it's not a problem of it being difficult..... I for one like the new AI.... my problem is it needs to be balanced, as it right now, it just annoying to the point that people are leaving the game because of it. one example....
8 jumps to make, interdicted 7 Times. each time you take damage because of the spinning interdiction issue regardless of if you submit or not.
and I fear that engineers will be jut like Power Play, and QCQ, both failed achieve what the could have.
The grinding and then the roll of the dice are just not my thing, and to be honest, I have over 2600 hours in the game right now and at the point of uninstalling it.

People were leaving the game because it was too easy. People leave the game and go play something else every day. Fact of life.

If the game changes and you aren't motivated to change with the game, you weren't enjoying what you were doing to begin with, you were just going through the motions because you had nothing better to do.

This board is flooded with threads containing advice on how to avoid interdictions. Everything from playing the back-end to reduce your probability of being targeted to how to set up your HOTAS to make beating them easier.

Getting interdicted often doesn't tell me there's something wrong with the game, just something wrong with what you're doing.

In the same manner that getting spanked in a crap-fit Anaconda doesn't particularly beguile me into believing that there's something wrong with combat balance.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

it's not a problem of it being difficult..... I for one like the new AI.... my problem is it needs to be balanced, as it right now, it just annoying to the point that people are leaving the game because of it. one example....
8 jumps to make, interdicted 7 Times. each time you take damage because of the spinning interdiction issue regardless of if you submit or not.
and I fear that engineers will be jut like Power Play, and QCQ, both failed achieve what the could have.
The grinding and then the roll of the dice are just not my thing, and to be honest, I have over 2600 hours in the game right now and at the point of uninstalling it.

I always find it odd listening to stories like this, because I really wonder if we're playing the same game. 10 days in & I have only had half a dozen interdiction attempts.....in total. More than half of those were failed attempts, & in the other two successful attempts, I was able to take out my relatively low skilled opponents with only a modicum of difficulty.

For the last 2 nights, I have been sitting in the midst of a Resource Extraction Site, mining, & I haven't been attacked once....though there is definitely criminal activity going on nearby.....maybe its my empty cargo hold that puts them off?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

With the greatest respect - who are you to define a 'fundamental concept' for all of us? You will need to clarify that hubristic declaration.

Well, it's quite simple.

I don't have to define it. It's called game theory, and it dictates what makes a game a good game. It's math. Oh, and it's science. And a lot of human psychology. And it's factually proven by thousands of different studies and economic models around the world. Sooo...

Argue with the world if you don't like it.

So...you meant more players then? Oh. Now things make sense.

That's a skill tree? It looks like a cry for help from a crop circle enthusiast. How do they balance all that? [where is it]

Better than D3 balances their "skill tree".

Meaning they're just competent at their job. That's all it takes.

 

[Mark Lock]

Naaah, I also kept playing Oblivion and Skyrim for years! (with a lot of mods, I confess)

I still play Skyrim

 

[askavir]

400 hours on Skyrim, never even got halfway through the main story. Still don't know how it ends and I don't care. Bethesda hasn't written a good campaign in a decade. 380 hours were modded gameplay.

300 hours on Fallout 4 in 3 months, 285 hours of it were modded gameplay. Never finished the main story and don't care. Also haven't played it since those first 3 months, it didn't keep my interest as long as Skyrim, which didn't keep my interest as long as Oblivion, which also didn't keep my interest as long as New Vegas, which I played through start to finish without mods the first time and loved.

So, unless it's FO:NV for me.

Oblivion's main quest was great.... oh but it has already been 11 years, so checks out

True, most questlines on latest bethesda titles are not very good. But the worlds and the freedom are what I love about them. The freedom to leave my home, go on some adventure and coming back at night to drink some mead at some town's inn while listening to some bard singing Ragnar the Red... And all those magnificent world enhancement mods...

For questlines and characters, I prefer the Bioware titles (Mass Effect and Dragon Age) and most especially The Witcher 3 (2 was great, but 3 is a masterpiece), in which even the sidiest of side quests has an interesting story to tell.

 

[Karl Marx]

Risk vs. Reward isn't a classic trait, nor is it an exceptionally effective trait for a game to have. There's a difference between being challenging and being overly difficult. Imagine if you had to play a game like Doom (the new one for this example) and you were forced to be stuck at the hardest difficulty level (Since I just did that!). Some people would absolutely love it, quite a few people would be okay with it, and a large chunk of people would find it overly difficult. Now, I do NOT want difficulty sliders in ANY multi-player game, so don't get me wrong, but there should be ways around the AI who maneuver and shoot with the precision and agility of a sentient aim-bot. Perhaps give people that ability to pick up an NPC wingman whose sole job it is to give a 50% increase to maneuvering thrusters. This way, you can keep the AI the way it is and still force pilots to use tactics like FA-off while at the same time forcing them to still develop skill in flight.

I don't really see that being an unbalanced trade-off and we're supposed to get multi-crew in the nearish future anyway. *shrug* one more thing to put in an already developing pipeline.

 

[Mark Lock]

Risk vs. Reward.

It's finally coming back to the game for traders, miners, etc.... and people have forgotten that this is a fundamental, irreplaceable part of the gameplay mechanics. You want to take a risk in a squishy ship to get that sweet sweet high credit reward? Guess what, it's risky now.

Don't start with the "But mining pays beans, and Explorers are the homeless of ED!"

Yeah, I know, Exploration has been my main gig since combat was trash. Doesn't matter. Until the risk is brought back into balance, the rate of reward can't be estimated and then adjusted to fit. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that FDev is slow and does these things one step at a time just like combat oriented players had to deal with it for a year waiting for FDev to rebalance combat.

That is all. And remember Devs, games that challenge players keep them playing. Once it's beaten that game is replaced and forgotten.

You are right and I'm glad they fixed the game, now ED is more like the old Elites where flying around was hard and the games were unforgiving, that's what made me play them for years, now ED finally is like that, DANGEROUS!!!

 

[Karl Marx]

You are right and I'm glad they fixed the game, now ED is more like the old Elites where flying around was hard and the games were unforgiving, that's what made me play them for years, now ED finally is like that, DANGEROUS!!!

Classed Elite was never as hard as it is now on traders, miners, or non-combat pilots. Ever. You might be remembering differently but I still play the original Elite and can compare apples to apples.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Well, it's quite simple.

I don't have to define it. It's called game theory, and it dictates what makes a game a good game. It's math. Oh, and it's science. And a lot of human psychology. And it's factually proven by thousands of different studies and economic models around the world. Sooo...

Argue with the world if you don't like it.



Better than D3 balances their "skill tree".

Meaning they're just competent at their job. That's all it takes.

OK, tell me about how you apply game theory (simply Risk vs Reward, you allege) in the context of ED.

Go. Just the first few lines of maths will do.

 

[Heater]

People were leaving the game because it was too easy. People leave the game and go play something else every day. Fact of life.

If the game changes and you aren't motivated to change with the game, you weren't enjoying what you were doing to begin with, you were just going through the motions because you had nothing better to do.

This board is flooded with threads containing advice on how to avoid interdictions. Everything from playing the back-end to reduce your probability of being targeted to how to set up your HOTAS to make beating them easier.

Getting interdicted often doesn't tell me there's something wrong with the game, just something wrong with what you're doing.

In the same manner that getting spanked in a crap-fit Anaconda doesn't particularly beguile me into believing that there's something wrong with combat balance.

Re read my post.... its not that I do not know how to avoid them it's that they happen back to back, and it has nothing to do with the " crap-fit" Anaconda in fact it's an a kitted Cutter and as I stated I like the NEW AI, I am elite rated combat and trade.... so it's not the way I play the game.

 

[Cmdr Dubstep Dragon]

Risk vs. Reward.

It's finally coming back to the game for traders, miners, etc.... and people have forgotten that this is a fundamental, irreplaceable part of the gameplay mechanics. You want to take a risk in a squishy ship to get that sweet sweet high credit reward? Guess what, it's risky now.

Don't start with the "But mining pays beans, and Explorers are the homeless of ED!"

Yeah, I know, Exploration has been my main gig since combat was trash. Doesn't matter. Until the risk is brought back into balance, the rate of reward can't be estimated and then adjusted to fit. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that FDev is slow and does these things one step at a time just like combat oriented players had to deal with it for a year waiting for FDev to rebalance combat.

That is all. And remember Devs, games that challenge players keep them playing. Once it's beaten that game is replaced and forgotten.

risk = 20mill+ credits VS reward= 100k credits , BUFF THE BOUNTY

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Risk vs. Reward isn't a classic trait, nor is it an exceptionally effective trait for a game to have. There's a difference between being challenging and being overly difficult. Imagine if you had to play a game like Doom (the new one for this example) and you were forced to be stuck at the hardest difficulty level (Since I just did that!). Some people would absolutely love it, quite a few people would be okay with it, and a large chunk of people would find it overly difficult. Now, I do NOT want difficulty sliders in ANY multi-player game, so don't get me wrong, but there should be ways around the AI who maneuver and shoot with the precision and agility of a sentient aim-bot. Perhaps give people that ability to pick up an NPC wingman whose sole job it is to give a 50% increase to maneuvering thrusters. This way, you can keep the AI the way it is and still force pilots to use tactics like FA-off while at the same time forcing them to still develop skill in flight.

I don't really see that being an unbalanced trade-off and we're supposed to get multi-crew in the nearish future anyway. *shrug* one more thing to put in an already developing pipeline.

There is a choice, it just isn't in the menu. People are flying around like nothing has changed when they were told things have changed, have experienced what has changed, and the game demonstrates to them what they shouldn't be doing now that the changes have been made.

Complaining that you can't keep doing things the same way you used to doesn't change the fact that you can still play the game at an easier difficulty. You just make that choice in the game by changing what you do and how you do it, not by selecting Easy, Medium or Hard.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

Regarding Risk v. Reward, FD has upped the risk everyone faces, without increasing rewards with the new AI. I am not suggesting that I would prefer an easier AI, but you, OP, made the link. The current commotion is about shifting the risk upwards, and altering the value of combat in the game. From launch combat had a certain level of demand across the board, allowing players to focus their ship builds, and play styles to that demand.

I am a combat focused player. The new AI suits me fine but, I can concede that for many players, those that have focused on other aspects of the game, the new AI may seem to have foisted a combat focus on them. In all honesty, I can see their point. In the end, after seeing the hue and cry brought out by the changes, I wouldn't blame FD for scaling back the difficulty to allow for those not interested in a combat heavy experience to thrive. I would accept that the amount of challenge I enjoy be scaled down, to the benefit of other players enjoyment. Does combat have to be the focus of everyone's game time?

Are you people incapable of reading?

the rate of reward can't be estimated and then adjusted to fit. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that FDev is slow and does these things one step at a time just like combat oriented players had to deal with it for a year waiting for FDev to rebalance combat.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

risk = 20mill+ credits VS reward= 100k credits , BUFF THE BOUNTY

Why are you bounty hunting in a 400 mil ship when something that's worth 4 mil will work just fine?

Stop flying the hard mode ship.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

You are right and I'm glad they fixed the game, now ED is more like the old Elites where flying around was hard and the games were unforgiving, that's what made me play them for years, now ED finally is like that, DANGEROUS!!!

Sadly it is not like it at all. Most of the fighting happened in the obvious places - near settlements. SC was instantaneous. When you arrived in a system you were in a battle. No silly minigames pulling ships out of SC, or interdictions. You went there, and fought. If it was too dangerous, you stayed away and took lower profits. You fought in the local space around the stations - we can't do that.

ED is a beautiful looking game that is flawed at its roots. To most kids and other gamers, it is just another game. I think it has failed.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Re read my post.... its not that I do not know how to avoid them it's that they happen back to back, and it has nothing to do with the " crap-fit" Anaconda in fact it's an a kitted Cutter and as I stated I like the NEW AI, I am elite rated combat and trade.... so it's not the way I play the game.

The Anaconda was a poster before you. Go back and read it, it's quite amusing.

You're elite ranked in combat and trade and carrying cargo. All 3 of those ramp up your interdiction rate. If you want to get interdicted less fly a different ship and fit it for speed. Those 8 jumps in a Cutter can be made in 4 in a Python and you'll be jumping out before anything spawns.

So like I told the other guy, just don't fly the hard mode ship.

 

[Mohrgan]

Are you people incapable of reading?

Just because some one types something, that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I'm a combat focused player, and I'm willing to concede that others are interested in a different experience.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Sadly it is not like it at all. Most of the fighting happened in the obvious places - near settlements. SC was instantaneous. When you arrived in a system you were in a battle. No silly minigames pulling ships out of SC, or interdictions. You went there, and fought. If it was too dangerous, you stayed away and took lower profits. You fought in the local space around the stations - we can't do that.

ED is a beautiful looking game that is flawed at its roots. To most kids and other gamers, it is just another game. I think it has failed.

What a load of utter garbage. If I stick to Hi Sec systems, I *never* get interdicted, & the only time I engage in combat in said systems is when I choose to drop out at a USS. In Hi Sec systems I can also count on a *lot* of support from local security too. My only interdictions have occurred in low or anarchy systems. That is why these "tales of woe" sound more like credit farmers who are deliberately exaggerating their plight to garner faux sympathy. Show video evidence of these issues, or else I will continue to call "bulls**t" on your claims.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Just because some one types something, that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I'm a combat focused player, and I'm willing to concede that others are interested in a different experience.

And they can still have that experience, just not while watching netflix.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

What a load of utter garbage. If I stick to Hi Sec systems, I *never* get interdicted, & the only time I engage in combat in said systems is when I choose to drop out at a USS. In Hi Sec systems I can also count on a *lot* of support from local security too. My only interdictions have occurred in low or anarchy systems. That is why these "tales of woe" sound more like credit farmers who are deliberately exaggerating their plight to garner faux sympathy. Show video evidence of these issues, or else I will continue to call "bulls**t" on your claims.

Calm down there Honch, he's talking about the original Elite.