General / Off-Topic The universal income

[Patrick_68000]

Do you really want to take about fair? Do you even understand the meaning of the word? You know what the wealthy do? They create laws and loopholes that allow them to hide their money or send the entire world economy into a tail spin. Is that fair where the very few can effect the world? This is right?

The tax system punishes effort does it? A tax system that allows 1% to amass billions? Oh yes that really sounds punishing. It punishes the 99% not the 1%.

How do you think the 1% spend their money? Do you think so very few can cause an economic boom? Is that what you see them doing with their money? Do they create jobs? Or do they hire those in other countries to work for lower wages? What happens if you keep removing jobs? What happens if you do not pay employees adequately? What happens when the 99% can not pump money into the economy? What do you think happens to jobs? If no one is buying your products you have to cuts costs in whatever way you can which often results in jobs losses and worse.

Now what if the 99% have money to spend? They are buying good and services. What happens when there is lots of money being spent? Do you think there is any chance of that creating jobs? Creating products? Leading to innovations? Dropping stress rates? Leading to better health and lifestyles? Leading to less strain on the health care system?

What do these people who have billions do to earn their money? Have they made the world a better place? Do they work harder than others? How much should a doctor earn for saving a life? Does it depend on whether it is a rich or poor person? I think it is common sense that the majority of the population is what drives an economy but if there are laws and loopholes that prevent that from happening to benefit just a few then I can't see how that system will ever work. Sure it might continue running but at sooner or later it might reach tipping point? Any chance of that happening? Nah. That is probably pretty unlikely.

A good reasoning here. It would be necessary that the 99 % oblige the 1 % to go on the good way

 

[starman]

When the AI and Robots takeover all human jobs then what?

 

[Surfinjo]

When the AI and Robots takeover all human jobs then what?

At the risk of repeating myself, do you mean like, right now?

Most UK jobs are service industry.

Economy of the United Kingdom
Statistics
Population below poverty line 15% (2014 est.) [4]
Gini coefficient 0.32 (2014)
Labour force 31.58 million (March 2016) (Employment rate 74.2%, record high.)
Labour force by occupation Agriculture: 1.5% Industry: 18.8% Services: 79.7% (2011 est.) [7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom#Service_industries

 

[starman]

At the risk of repeating myself, do you mean like, right now?

Most UK jobs are service industry.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom#Service_industries

Yes . We have been taken over by low cost outsourced workers. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/544201/china-wants-to-replace-millions-of-workers-with-robots/

Those figures are . Lots of underemployed seasonal work. 15% of a pop of 60 million thats 9000000 people under PL

Welcome to the future

[video=youtube;LozJSTjrvek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozJSTjrvek[/video]

 

[Minonian]

Nice didactic.

Some evidence might be interesting.

Lemme see... Venezuela, Soviet union, Kuba, China, S Europe....

If effort is punished than no one is going to give a damn.

 

[Minonian]

The tax system punishes effort does it? A tax system that allows 1% to amass billions? Oh yes that really sounds punishing. It punishes the 99% not the 1%

So, to let the best win the race, is the punisment of the weakest? No offense man, but this is just dumb.

 

[Surfinjo]

Yes . We have been taken over by low cost outsourced workers. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/544201/china-wants-to-replace-millions-of-workers-with-robots/

Those figures are . Lots of underemployed seasonal work. 15% of a pop of 60 million thats 9000000 people under PL

Welcome to the future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozJSTjrvek

What are you on about?

This has nothing to do with the topic or the line of discussion.

Our economy has been a service based economy since the 1980s and Thatcher. Automation of industry doesn't apply to the UK since we have practically no industry!

Duh!

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Lemme see... Venezuela, Soviet union, Kuba, China, S Europe....

If effort is punished than no one is going to give a damn.

Not sure what you think the problems are with China, they run a very successful economy as does Cuba. Most of Europe runs their economy with socialist principals.

 

[Minonian]

Not sure what you think the problems are with China, they run a very successful economy as does Cuba. Most of Europe runs their economy with socialist principals.

If you think cuba and china economy is a sucess, i suggest to take a closer look.

 

[starman]

"What are you on about?

This has nothing to do with the topic or the line of discussion.

Our economy has been a service based economy since the 1980s and Thatcher. Automation of industry doesn't apply to the UK since we have practically no industry! Show me a single post that doesn tend in 'Off topic' ie disagreing with op post

Duh!"

i am a software developer so the majority of work has been outsourced overseas. Technically it can be classed as manufacturing. So yeah been hit big time. Thats what I'm on about. Show me a single post that doesn tend in 'Off topic' ie disagreeing with op post

 

[Surfinjo]

If you think cuba and china economy is a sucess, i suggest to take a closer look.

If you think they are not I suggest you do the same.

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"What are you on about?

This has nothing to do with the topic or the line of discussion.

Our economy has been a service based economy since the 1980s and Thatcher. Automation of industry doesn't apply to the UK since we have practically no industry! Show me a single post that doesn tend in 'Off topic' ie disagreing with op post

Duh!"

i am a software developer so the majority of work has been outsourced overseas. Technically it can be classed as manufacturing. So yeah been hit big time. Thats what I'm on about. Show me a single post that doesn tend in 'Off topic' ie disagreeing with op post

The link you gave referred to mechanisation in China.

Not sure what the relevance is here.

You may well outsource but again, the relevance to mechanisation in China????

You complain the figures are cooked. Nope. Most people in the UK work in service industries. The UK has almost no primary industries of any kind.

But again, not sure what a lonk talking about mechanisation in China has to do with anything

 

[starman]

Because the UK now follows rather than leads so what happens in US or China eventually hits the UK. China economy is based on manual labour so how will all those million of unemployed live on? Its a communist state so technical the state should provide for them. In the UK even the service industry could get automated to a large part. 20 years ago I saw the tea lady disappear replaced by a soulless vending machine.

 

[Surfinjo]

Because the UK now follows rather than leads so what happens in US or China eventually hits the UK. China economy is based on manual labour so how will all those million of unemployed live on? Its a communist state so technical the state should provide for them. In the UK even the service industry could get automated to a large part. 20 years ago I saw the tea lady disappear replaced by a soulless vending machine.

I'm pretty sure China has planned for the case when mechanisation takes over from manual labour, unlike our own dear government which was happy to have its people starve on the streets. (Did you know this is what Marxs was writing about?).

As for the furture of this country, there is little point in indulging in conjecture and scare mongering. That is how we got to the silly debate over the EU.

 

[Minonian]

If you think they are not I suggest you do the same.

no need of it, and neither no point to by using cherry picking try to dismantle my reasoning.

Communism failed. And so as Socialism in E europe.

 

[Calico Jack]

Someone from Norway (Forbes' 2nd best country to be unemployed, it turns out) once told me they get so much in unemployment benefit that choosing to work is more of a self-respect thing, than a need thing. I thought this was a load of Star Trek-betterment-of-humanity type waffle, but a little light Googling and, um darn ...

My ego would do perfectly well on 87% salary for a year; might even get some good modules Engineered.

That said, I am sat in the office at work, and being paid to be on a computer game forum, so could be worse ...

 

[SMcA]

Yes and a maximum income.
Just to annoy the torry bees.

 

[starman]

Yep we will sleep walk into the robot apocalypse sounds abut right.

 

[Patrick_68000]

That said, I am sat in the office at work, and being paid to be on a computer game forum, so could be worse ...

Many people who are at work are often idlers, by moment. They are the unemployed who are not counted in the statisitiques

 

[We Are Groot]

So, to let the best win the race, is the punisment of the weakest? No offense man, but this is just dumb.

No what is dumb is extreme excess. There are people around the world starving and living horrible lives. A lot of that could be eliminated but laws and loopholes are designed for the very few to sit on mountains of cash and just hide it away. Not to mention greedy. Do they need that money? Do they need 7 houses, 16 bathrooms, 27 cars, 3 yachts and 2 jets? That sounds rather dumb and silly to me.

What about one person to rule the world, A King? You would have no problem with a law being created where only that one person has all the wealth? If it is fine for the select few than one would be even better?

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A good reasoning here. It would be necessary that the 99 % oblige the 1 % to go on the good way

Probably not very likely to happen.

 

[Patrick_68000]

No what is dumb is extreme excess. There are people around the world starving and living horrible lives. A lot of that could be eliminated but laws and loopholes are designed for the very few to sit on mountains of cash and just hide it away. Not to mention greedy. Do they need that money? Do they need 7 houses, 16 bathrooms, 27 cars, 3 yachts and 2 jets? That sounds rather dumb and silly to me.

What about one person to rule the world, A King? You would have no problem with a law being created where only that one person has all the wealth? If it is fine for the select few than one would be even better?

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Probably not very likely to happen.

In fact I read this morning that the 1 % possess half of the world private wealth (and not 90 %). Thus these 1 % possess as much as than the 99 %. At this level of wealth, it does not change the fact that it is an appropriation of the resources as the parasites make

 

[Surfinjo]

America is a wild capitalist nation. with little or no social system. So tell me yourself, what is the resolution there? Company intrest's must be fighted off, and the social system must be normalized. This is the beginning. + what i stated previously, the money must be made move again instead to sit where it is.



And how you want to do that? It is fair? It's fair to say the best runner, you must race with a 500LBS fatty and it's forbidden to you outrun him?! this is right?

About taxing? The multi key tax system have the same problem. It's punishes effort. Think it over! You have more you must pay more! tell me? this is really fair? You ready to give effort, you try to rise up, if they they are beating you down because of it? What is fair is flat tax. A richer man still paying more, than a poorer, because he have more. Yeah i know the richer man this means less. because he in proportion use less to maintain his life level. The resolution in there is not aid for the poorer, i consider this a mistake, I said my reasons about this one already. the resolution is tax write off. this actually stimulate effort.

And here is why communism punishment the richer the best won't work. It's cannot create eqality, and good society because its the reign of the dumbest, the stupidest the poorest who is alway jealous, who is always afraid.

This is what communism and socialism do.

http://i.snag.gy/kdu77.jpg

Be interested in where the reports and claims of this questionable experiment came from.